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Old 18th April 2007, 08:03 PM
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questions about arabic domains

hi,
Is this character لأ ok in a domain name or not? Is that an accent or what? Is it ok to use it in a domain name?

Also, what about combination words in arabic? What is the commonly accepted way, using the ascii - character as a seperator, or what?

Thanks

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Old 18th April 2007, 08:12 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

ل + أ = لأ

It's fine to use in a domain assuming that is the correct way of spelling it.

I'd probably stay away from using a - in Arabic domains.
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Old 18th April 2007, 08:15 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefabfive
ل + أ = لأ

It's fine to use in a domain assuming that is the correct way of spelling it.

I'd probably stay away from using a - in Arabic domains.
Thanks.

So you are saying that multi-word domain names are not possible?

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Old 18th April 2007, 08:16 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
hi,
Is this character لأ ok in a domain name or not? Is that an accent or what? Is it ok to use it in a domain name?

Also, what about combination words in arabic? What is the commonly accepted way, using the ascii - character as a seperator, or what?

Thanks

.
The ribbonshaped symbol is two letters merged. The little character at the top is Hamza (glotal stop), which is actually a letter of the alphabet, but when written out full is just like a hyphen.

There are different opinions. This form is a more classical form but is often used in certain circumstances. Some insists that companies will want these classical forms for their addresses, others disagree. Arabs are a bit like the French in as much as it only takes two to have four opinions so there are no easy answers until it actually happens.

My advice is that if it shows up in search in large numbers it is good. If it doesn't then it is risky but not necessarily bad. Try searching between speech marks to see if that affects the results, as Google sometimes returns equivalents as results. If you search in speech marks it will only return exact matches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefabfive
ل + أ = لأ

It's fine to use in a domain assuming that is the correct way of spelling it.

I'd probably stay away from using a - in Arabic domains.
I have stayed away from hypens. Some combinations don't merge and therefore seem acceptable without the hyphen. From conversations I have had recently though it would seem that hyphens may prove acceptable.
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 18th April 2007 at 08:20 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 18th April 2007, 08:22 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
Thanks.

So you are saying that multi-word domain names are not possible?
No, it's possible. However, sometimes the last character of the first word and first character of the second word will join together altering the combination. In this case I would probably avoid the domain. Other times the characters will not interact in this way, in which case if the domain is sufficiently enticing I would go for it. Always check search results and Ovt though.
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Old 18th April 2007, 08:30 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefabfive
No, it's possible. However, sometimes the last character of the first word and first character of the second word will join together altering the combination. In this case I would probably avoid the domain. Other times the characters will not interact in this way, in which case if the domain is sufficiently enticing I would go for it. Always check search results and Ovt though.
OK, thanks. What about the case where the two word combo is extremely enticing, and putting them together alters the combination? Is "-" acceptable/desirable or not?

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Old 18th April 2007, 08:32 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

I'd have to defer to Fka or g on the use of the hyphen. I would make sure that character is available on the Arabic keyboard though.
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Old 18th April 2007, 09:00 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefabfive
No, it's possible. However, sometimes the last character of the first word and first character of the second word will join together altering the combination. In this case I would probably avoid the domain. Other times the characters will not interact in this way, in which case if the domain is sufficiently enticing I would go for it. Always check search results and Ovt though.
Also, what is a good US OVT for arabics? I found one with 407 US OVT...

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Old 18th April 2007, 09:06 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefabfive
I'd have to defer to Fka or g on the use of the hyphen. I would make sure that character is available on the Arabic keyboard though.
I would second that, both are great resources. Also g posted several hints a year or so ago check those out.

As far as ovt, 407 is good imo, ovt on arabic/persian terms seems to have dropped within the last year. Also, check recent sales and the uvOVT on those those. I personally would pick up a generic arabic term with 407 usOVT.

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Old 18th April 2007, 09:26 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

I must admit I don't even bother with Overture for Arabic. I tend to go on Google results if they are backed-up with enough of the right images.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tee1
I would second that, both are great resources. Also g posted several hints a year or so ago check those out.

As far as ovt, 407 is good imo, ovt on arabic/persian terms seems to have dropped within the last year. Also, check recent sales and the uvOVT on those those. I personally would pick up a generic arabic term with 407 usOVT.

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Old 18th April 2007, 09:47 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
I must admit I don't even bother with Overture for Arabic. I tend to go on Google results if they are backed-up with enough of the right images.
good point and check google.com/trends as well.


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Old 18th April 2007, 10:04 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
So you are saying that multi-word domain names are not possible?
some of my biggest payers are combo terms. Adult does particularly well no surprise.

FKA is a great guy, he has helped me out no end with Arabic - highly recommended.
and so is g also - great guys and helpful the both of them

On the overture, think of it as more of a bonus. If everything else says yes, and it has a strong ovt xxx-xxxx then you're definately on to something

also don't shy away from .net - there are many great .nets in Arabic unregged - and they do very well - again my top earners are dominated by .nets

because typein is not happening, the revenue makers are coming from search - so .nets are as good as coms. So a good .net is better than a crappier .com

if you want, you can browse my .com arabics (all translated & verified by FKA) and grab some .nets. just pm me for a list
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Old 18th April 2007, 11:10 PM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

It won't get traffic [Just my opinion, I think.]. I have a domain like that in .com and I think it's gotten two visitors. لإ

Added some more:

Adult is great, after long nights of searching I have left some regs free when I was searching for Arabics back in November.

The hyphen sucks. Sorry, but it does. I'd assume it would be OK if developed, but I have been to busy to see if it makes a difference with development or not.

You can always PM me if you have any questions. I get a lot of things verified before I give advice as well. I'm in somewhat of a financial screw up, so am considering trimming my portfolio down if I can't solve some problems [but I fear I may just pay Dave the cash to be included in the auction next month instead... choices choices choices] so am considering selling out 30-40 of my names.
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Old 19th April 2007, 07:05 AM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fka200
It won't get traffic [Just my opinion, I think.]. I have a domain like that in .com and I think it's gotten two visitors. لإ
I am not talking about a single character domain, just wondering if that was an accented character or not. RD explained it quite well, so no further question there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fka200
Added some more:

Adult is great, after long nights of searching I have left some regs free when I was searching for Arabics back in November.

The hyphen sucks. Sorry, but it does. I'd assume it would be OK if developed, but I have been to busy to see if it makes a difference with development or not.
Does the hyphen suck in arabics the same way it sucks in ascii, or does it suck worse because of something to do with the arabic script, rtl, etc? I can see where e.g. "onlinepoker.com" is more valuable than "online-poker.com", but even the latter would be worth thousands... And if writing "onlinepoker" changes into "onlitiopoker", for example, when typing the two words together, then the hyphen becomes absolutely necessary IMO. I'm not searching for poker domains, I'll leave that to bossman, just using that as an example in english.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fka200
You can always PM me if you have any questions. I get a lot of things verified before I give advice as well. I'm in somewhat of a financial screw up, so am considering trimming my portfolio down if I can't solve some problems [but I fear I may just pay Dave the cash to be included in the auction next month instead... choices choices choices] so am considering selling out 30-40 of my names.
OK, thanks for the offer.

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Old 19th April 2007, 08:26 AM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Good News, well, at least what I say may help!

Due to the getting a organised a bit late this month, Jose is still tinkering with the Auction Platform, and also having something of a Chicken and Egg situation with buyers and sellers, we have decided to lower the bar considerably for Sellers.

For this month only, we are going to charge just 2% of Reserve Price to enter your name into the Elite Auction, that price applies whether or not the domain sells. This should massively reduce the upfront cost for Sellers wishing to enter the Auction.

As previous announced but not perhaps widely understood, we have also introduced and Introductory Period for Buyers. This means that during this period, buyers will pay the $100 refundable deposit, but it will be refunded at the end of the Introductory period, but the qualification of he buyer will stand indefinitely. That effectively means free entry. When we have a proven business model, we will be charging a non-refundable entry fee which will be at least $100.

I personally have entered 4 quality names at the mimimum reserve, and will probably look at entering more later, if there is sufficient buyer interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fka200
It won't get traffic [Just my opinion, I think.]. I have a domain like that in .com and I think it's gotten two visitors. لإ

Added some more:

Adult is great, after long nights of searching I have left some regs free when I was searching for Arabics back in November.

The hyphen sucks. Sorry, but it does. I'd assume it would be OK if developed, but I have been to busy to see if it makes a difference with development or not.

You can always PM me if you have any questions. I get a lot of things verified before I give advice as well. I'm in somewhat of a financial screw up, so am considering trimming my portfolio down if I can't solve some problems [but I fear I may just pay Dave the cash to be included in the auction next month instead... choices choices choices] so am considering selling out 30-40 of my names.
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Old 19th April 2007, 08:49 AM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
..we have decided to lower the bar considerably for Sellers...
This is probably not the right place to have this debate (i.e in this thread and maybe even on this forum - but I feel compelled to reply)

you know my feelings on this.. and by lowering the bar, you are dilluting what could have been an Elite auction, to what is probably going to turn into a "Normal" auction. Like we see in forums every day of the year.

I will be real clear in my positioning of this: you need to differentiate and you need to position it as "Elite".

That means huge names at huge prices with big buyers and sellers.

If you cannot get all of those elements then you can't have an Elite Auction. Simply supplementing one or all of those elements with something lesser is not the answer. If the market isn't ready, it's not ready.

- that is not the same as above average names with every tom-dick-and harry selling their wares.

A car boot sale is not the model you should be adopting.

It will fail miserably if you do not heed this.

But i know your position on this, and you know mine - but I wanted to go on record saying it.

You get once chance to do it right first time and to make an impact, don't f*ck it up just because the market isn't ready.
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Old 19th April 2007, 09:27 AM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

We are not intending to change the principles of the Auction, all we are doing is offer a discount in commissions for the first auction. That is normal business practice. We realise if there is no market for top end domains, there is no market for the rest either.

The main principles of this Auction are solid translations, which is absolutely sacrosant, and that of buyer qualification, which is being fudged a little, but we consider that this will have no long-term detriment. OK, it will effectively end up cost nothing to join, if you join immediately, but the sanction of being excluded still remains, so we will have control over the quality of the buyers. Expect entry fees to the Auction to go up in line with demand. Also be aware that only a limited number will be accepted under this Introductory Period. As soon as we consider we have an adequate pool of buyers on board, the offer will close. I think Mulligan and I between us know exactly who we mean by serious buyers.

Like all organisations we need to listen avidly to our customers. We are not, however, going to be greatly swayed by those that are not participating but feel that have a right to influence things.
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Old 19th April 2007, 09:37 AM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
I think Mulligan and I between us know exactly who we mean by serious buyers
actually I would hoped you don't know.

new buyers, new blood, an extended customer base is what you need. This is not about trying to convince the small number of historically larger buyers that are already here.
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Old 19th April 2007, 09:58 AM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
actually I would hoped you don't know.

new buyers, new blood, an extended customer base is what you need. This is not about trying to convince the small number of historically larger buyers that are already here.
No of course we don't know who might come into the market, but we know they will only turn up if there is something interesting happening.

There is no market for IDN outside this Forum. Moniker and Sedo have both screwed up big time on IDN, and it has taken me ten minutes to reply to this post because everytime I tried to access the bloody database my whole system locks up, so trying to organise a realtime auction on here would be a complete and utter waste of time. The existing market place offers none of feature that the new buyers you are hypotheising about would seek, such as good domains, as sensible prices with a high quality of translations and a lack of "noise" as it is often described. What we have here has severed us reasonably well to date but in its current form it going precisely nowhere.

If high calibre new entrant buyers are out there, they will only come in if the conditions are right. They will expect to see a well organised and well regulated market place. Such a market can only be formed from existing players.

It would seem that most here don't currently share our vision. Many seem to think that I and others should commit to long-term slavery to serve what is mockingly called a community. I am not sure why, people have not support our efforts to establish and Elite Forum. It could be just be because they haven't the vision, it could be because they genuinely cannot afford the fees, it could be they are simply insanely jealous of what others are attempting to do. Almost none of them appear to be looking the greater good and looking to see how they can be supportive or particpate in the initiative of others. Most of on here could have participated in the DNL project if they had shown some reall interest and commitment.

The bottom line is if there is no organised market for the next six months or so, and consequently no momentum for IDN, who is going to lose out the most? Is it going to be me? I think not. Yes, it will cost me but I will get by. Those constantly whinge and moan and do nothing are likely to be impacted the most. It is not just about buying and selling either, the whole infrastructure than IDN requires is being held up due to the apparent lack of any serious interest. We need to change that perspective and we need to change it now. Or do I just join the rest of the " F*ck you Jack" economy?
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Old 19th April 2007, 10:10 AM
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Re: questions about arabic domains

Rd this comes back to the same old thing time and time again.

I and others here think we are in for the long haul. 2-3 yrs.

I don't expect much to happen before then.

others i.e you - believe it will all be happening in the next few months. Maybe you really believe that, or maybe you need it to happen in the next few months. I don't know.

You talk about vision? you must be referring to rose-tinted glasses.
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