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Old 26th April 2007, 03:17 PM
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IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

I know many of you have thrown up some quick adsense sites or have done some minor development, but have any of you considered major development projects? If not, do you feel that the risk is still too high? Language barriers? Laziness? Anti- BRICs?

Of course there are still certain limitations, but there is always an advantage in being one of the first in a market.

Thoughts?
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Old 26th April 2007, 03:19 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

The main advantage is position 1 in Google for age, relevance, and domain.
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Old 26th April 2007, 03:24 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
The main advantage is position 1 in Google for age, relevance, and domain.

There are many advantages outside of search ranking. Certain online markets do not even exist in many countries and a properly developed site in the country's native language would have massive potential. They are ready for it. Everything is not about adsense and parked pages.
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Old 26th April 2007, 03:32 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

I was thinking about developing a full blown ecommerce site to sell farmyard animals to Japanese housewives.

Good idea or baaaa'd ?

I assume from this thread you are seriously considering it?
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Old 26th April 2007, 03:41 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
I assume from this thread you are seriously considering it?
I guess the purpose of this thread is for someone to convinve why I shouldn't

Why hasn't anyone done any major development? Many of us have been idning for two plus years, has no even considered it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
I was thinking about developing a full blown ecommerce site to sell farmyard animals to Japanese housewives.
Good idea, but you would have to form a local partnership. Shipping farmyard animals from the UK would be a bitch.
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Last edited by idn; 26th April 2007 at 03:42 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 26th April 2007, 03:50 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Probably maintaining the portfolios became a priority for some. That's why I still test site structures (actually I have to anyway), but the adsense revenue maintains the cost of my portfolio.

If you got the time especially in markets undeveloped go for it.

Also time is an issue....

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn
I guess the purpose of this thread is for someone to convinve why I shouldn't

Why hasn't anyone done any major development? Many of us have been idning for two plus years, has no even considered it?
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Old 26th April 2007, 04:15 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

As one of the many developers on this forum I've thought about it too. And I also have no substantial IDN sites only adsense and mini-sites. Here's how I score it -

Pros:
  • search engines like you,
  • opportunity to establish your brand before would-be competitors
  • no real barriers to entry,
  • chance to innovate, forge partnerships, be proactive before competitors arrive on scene

That last point is the most important to me, particularly in the case of an ambitious site project. For example if you build a good system and offer a well-designed API before others enter the market space, they may decide to use your infrastructure - only because you were first to market!

Cons:
  • your time and money are invested in a very limited market, albeit a growing one, so it needs relatively very high rates of customer conversions or membership signups or whatever the site does to make money - unless you're so ambitious that you're willing to go after mindshare only
  • may take a couple years to realize roughly the same market reach that an ASCII domain-based competitor site has
  • ROI is deferred for some time, so your financial requirements are further constrained vesus ASCII domain projects

Again a comment on the last bullet. Why capitalize the project now when other investments (yes including ASCII development) pay well in the here and now? Why not take the money (or use your time to make money) to invest in more domains instead for example?
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Old 26th April 2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
Why not take the money (or use your time to make money) to invest in more domains instead for example?
and I think that sums it up.

The hardcore IDN believer who has a good portfolio may well have trouble raising funds for such a project, and its arguable that if the funds were available they would prob just reg/buy more names

for those that are not all in, maybe the absolute belief isn't there, therefore they can't sustify financing the project because they see risk.

all in all, this time will come, but it's probably too early now IMO
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Old 26th April 2007, 06:18 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

There is no first mover advantage as far as I can see it.

There are large players in each market already, albeit they are still currently using addresses from a nearly defunct technology. But since browser support for the new names isn't here they have no choice. Make no mistake once it arrive many of them will move seemlessly across to IDN.

Where is you first mover advantage in terms of site development. The only advantage you might have is that of a much better domain name. Development won't change that.
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Old 26th April 2007, 06:22 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
and I think that sums it up.

The hardcore IDN believer who has a good portfolio may well have trouble raising funds for such a project, and its arguable that if the funds were available they would prob just reg/buy more names

for those that are not all in, maybe the absolute belief isn't there, therefore they can't sustify financing the project because they see risk.

all in all, this time will come, but it's probably too early now IMO
I hear you, but if you could develop a sucessful site because of the timing it could be more beneficial than any regs. There also is the added benefit of market awareness of idns. Depending on your portfolio that could be a large benefit on its own.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:14 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
There is no first mover advantage as far as I can see it.

There are large players in each market already, albeit they are still currently using addresses from a nearly defunct technology. But since browser support for the new names isn't here they have no choice. Make no mistake once it arrive many of them will move seemlessly across to IDN.

Where is you first mover advantage in terms of site development. The only advantage you might have is that of a much better domain name. Development won't change that.
There is a big advantage actually. Google *loves* sites (and to some extent domains) that have age. So the earlier you develop, the quicker you age, the better your search engine rankings. If you don't develop for another 2-3 years, there is simply no way to "catch up".

And by extention, if you are planning to sell, you are increasing the value of your domains *considerably* by developing / aging them.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:22 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
There is a big advantage actually. Google *loves* sites (and to some extent domains) that have age. So the earlier you develop, the quicker you age, the better your search engine rankings. If you don't develop for another 2-3 years, there is simply no way to "catch up".

And by extention, if you are planning to sell, you are increasing the value of your domains *considerably* by developing / aging them.
That is a rational argument in view of past experience, but what happens if 90% of Asian site migrate to a new URL. Google is faced with an entirely new scenario and will just re-tweak its algorithms to cope with an entirely new situation.

It is all about relevance as far as Google is concerned. They will change anything to maintain that primary objective. For that reason, I guess it won't be long before Japanese IDN.ws starts to get filtered out.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:30 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
That is a rational argument in view of past experience, but what happens if 90% of Asian site migrate to a new URL. Google is faced with an entirely new scenario and will just re-tweak its algorithms to cope with an entirely new situation.
Well, that depends whether you believe in the "explosion theory" or not. I simply don't believe 90% of Asian sites will up-sticks and move to IDN "suddenly". They have too much invested in their ASCII sites, including (but certainly not limited to) "site age".

Yes, Google are always "tweaking" but they aren't going to start loving new sites. Favouring "old sites" has been a big part of Google's SERPS changes in the last couple of years, and they ain't gonna abandon the idea just because some websites want to rebrand with different domains. In the view of Google, site age = trust = credibility = good SERPs.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:32 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
If you don't develop for another 2-3 years, there is simply no way to "catch up".
Don't forget the "direct navigation" effect in two to three years. If you're holding premium stuff, you don't need to do jack, really.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:34 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

I bought some ASCII equivalents for some potential developments... on a serious scale. Although I don't believe the time is right, I would still do it.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:37 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
Well, that depends whether you believe in the "explosion theory" or not. I simply don't believe 90% of Asian sites will up-sticks and move to IDN "suddenly". They have too much invested in their ASCII sites, including (but certainly not limited to) "site age".

Yes, Google are always "tweaking" but they aren't going to start loving new sites. Favouring "old sites" has been a big part of Google's SERPS changes in the last couple of years, and they ain't gonna abandon the idea just because some websites want to rebrand with different domains. In the view of Google, site age = trust = credibility = good SERPs.
Well, if the put so much store on site age then they are going to have to get down and get dirty with it as soon as possible, as like you say they will never catch up.

Google also have previously put a heavy load on whether there is a match in the URL. ASCII yields no match, so there is a big imperative to change. I personally think there will be a big change over. 90% might be conservative. It is the time frame is the big uncertainty.

I personally believe that Google will be responsive to an evolving scenario. That is what companies that grow and prosper do. Those that don't go out of business pretty damned quick.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:39 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni
Don't forget the "direct navigation" effect in two to three years. If you're holding premium stuff, you don't need to do jack, really.
sure, "do nothing" is one approach. But the question was really whether there is any advantage to developing now rather than later, not whether to develop at all.

Also, "direct navigation" of IDNs is not a shoe-in. None of us know how much they will get and when. So by doing nothing you are taking a risk. And if your names are really that brilliant, then they are worthy of development.

Crikey, even all the ASCII players have suddenly decided to get off their fat arses and develop rather than park. :p
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:40 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

I think mini-sites are the way to go because they do indeed give you a real site so you can age your domain (don't forget to turn the bottles)
Build it out later!

'Course the original post asked about building large sites. So far not many folks motivated to do so from the sounds of it.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:42 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

Google also have previously put a heavy load on whether there is a match in the URL. ASCII yields no match, so there is a big imperative to change. I personally think there will be a big change over. 90% might be conservative. It is the time frame is the big uncertainty.
There is little evidence that Google heavily favours keyword domains. Certainly it is part of the mix, but all the reading and testing I have done in the last six months suggests not a big part. MSN for sure, their top 10 results are stuffed with keyword domains, they appear to care about little else, but not Google. Google is much keener on whether they think your site is an "authority" on a particular subject.
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Old 26th April 2007, 07:51 PM
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Re: IDN Development- First Mover Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
There is little evidence that Google heavily favours keyword domains. Certainly it is part of the mix, but all the reading and testing I have done in the last six months suggests not a big part. MSN for sure, their top 10 results are stuffed with keyword domains, they appear to care about little else, but not Google. Google is much keener on whether they think your site is an "authority" on a particular subject.
I think I have to disagree with you there.

A lot of members have been shoving up new sites will crap content and still going well up the rankings. Even bloody parking pages are making it to page one. If this is not on basis of the keywords in the Domain Name, then I am at a loss to explain it.
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