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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 1st May 2007, 09:58 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Criticism when it is constructive is welcome but when it isn't and is a simple bitching exercise then it isn't worth reading.
There is a lot of whining going on on this and other forums and the majority are happy to sit and whine and wait for the golden goose to start laying eggs in their laps .. well, as with most things in life if you don't go out and do it yourself nobody is going to do it for you.
So our auctions don't suit everyone? Well speak up and tell us what does ... We have plans for other types of auctions .. you want to see auctions that you want to take part in then let us know.
We can run auctions with million dollar reserves.
We can run auctions with no reserves and have them filled with the dross peddled every day here and elsewhere.

Our ultimate aim is to provide a platform where you can buy and sell credible IDNs so instead of complaining about the current auction let us know what you want to see and what your ideas are and what you think constitutes a good auction that you would like to take part in.

Or... you can pin your hopes on TRAFFIC and other Auction venues and see if that bears fruit for you
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 1st May 2007, 09:58 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

I am not trying to prevent anyone having an opinion that is fine.

I don't honestly care what you say about my domains but I will protect the interest of others using the Elite Auction.

The point is if the rules state you can only put up the punycode and reserve, and all other information has to come from third parties, it is just totally below the belt to make adverse comments on the domains. The principle is that the Seller buys a reserve level. He is not awarded it. He buys it. He is entitled to set whatever reserve he likes. The punycode is irrefutable, it is fundamental and incontestable. All other information is provided by a third party beyond the Sellers control. Those are the rules.

The whole point is that Auction is set up to prevent the Seller describing his own name. This is done to ensure objectivity. If the third party is not doing a good job then comment is warranted. Please don't berate a name because you don't like the reserve. That is the Seller's perogative. If you don't want to bid then don't bid.

I have tried to make the point quite strongly that if you sign up now, you will be refunded at the end of the introductory period, so entry is effectively free indefinitely. You don't even have to bid. If you choose to wait until we introduce a non-refundable entry fee then that is your choice. It doesn't make much sense, but I can respect that.

I know there is a lot of Green Eye around here, but the truth is some people have been working their butts off for a long time getting Forums and Auction Platforms working. There is a lot of admin involved in this Auction. At the moment we are charging next to nothing. At some point in time at sustainable business model is required. Those that think I and others should be devoting our lives for free in the service of the IDN community need to think again. The vast majority of Domainers contribute nothing of any value and frankly the parallels with IDNers is becoming very clear as well.

Frankly, I avoided getting involved in running the Forum for ages because I did not want the responsibility. I have taken it on because I view estabishment of a secondary market is a key objective that has to be attained. I would quite happily have stood back and let others do this. The bottom line is some have promised but none have really tried and one or two have taken the piss. If you are not going to make a commitment yourself to doing anything positive for the market, please don't make fools of yourselves by critising those that are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan
Criticism when it is constructive is welcome but when it isn't and is a simple bitching exercise then it isn't worth reading.
There is a lot of whining going on on this and other forums and the majority are happy to sit and whine and wait for the golden goose to start laying eggs in their laps .. well, as with most things in life if you don't go out and do it yourself nobody is going to do it for you.
So our auctions don't suit everyone? Well speak up and tell us what does ... We have plans for other types of auctions .. you want to see auctions that you want to take part in then let us know.
We can run auctions with million dollar reserves.
We can run auctions with no reserves and have them filled with the dross peddled every day here and elsewhere.

Our ultimate aim is to provide a platform where you can buy and sell credible IDNs so instead of complaining about the current auction let us know what you want to see and what your ideas are and what you think constitutes a good auction that you would like to take part in.

Or... you can pin your hopes on TRAFFIC and other Auction venues and see if that bears fruit for you
I think it fair to say that we made every effort to sample opinion before this endeavour was launched. I put up several questionaire type polls both here and at dnlocal.com. The bottom line is we got very little useful information because most people just could not be arsed to respond.
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 1st May 2007 at 10:34 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 2nd May 2007, 01:06 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Looks good. I am in. Nothing to lose by signing up.
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Old 2nd May 2007, 06:17 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

I'm all for the elite, the best, the brightest, the richest, the polite Society, the upper crust, the aristorcracy, the kings and queens, emperors, fief holders, the domainers, the greedy inheritors of the realm, the truly exclusive riders of first class, the old shoes, best bred, old gaurd, the French Revolution be damned, buy your way in, elbow your registrar, own the dictionary, sell little, register much, beat snapnames, stroke your ego, get rich on PPC, the private island, the elusive peice of surf, buy out IREIT, put the ascii crowd to shame. You could be here too. If you were elite enough to buy IDNs in 2000.

But you didn't did you? So head over to the elite auction, your peice of eight is still up for grabs for pennies on the dollar of future value.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 2nd May 2007 at 07:16 AM..
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Old 2nd May 2007, 07:43 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Wow, interesting thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsinternet
We know what we would like to have. Why should we give up our few when we see so many castoffs at auction from those who have so many? ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
...I think the problem is quite simple to understand for the prime terms: people are expecting to get 100k bucks per name 5 years or so and they just don't want to sell them now. However, with the organizers of the auction holding prime terms and having the agenda to push IDNs forward today, they should be willing to let some prime terms go for today's market values. That's called "breathing life into the market"..
Great points, but it is a bit idealistic or egalitarian to think that early investors should cast away gems in an inefficient market in order to potentially stabilize the market. I thought this at first glance at this forum, when I realized just how few names held so many fantastic names, but it's just not realistic.

The fact is that investors get antsy. If they expected their investment to pay off in a year, and now, three years later, they don't see the typeins or Dname mapping they expected, they're going to reduce their risk by liquidating part of their portfolios at market value. An orderly market can facilitate this, though it may not produce immediate results.

You have to applaud RD's efforts in this respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Actually, ...That is one of the problems of Forum Auctions, they tend to result in choas, and of late it has got worse with players deliberately trying to confuse the bidding. Add to that good names buried under a mountain of rubbish and confusion over translations and it is little wonder that buyers cannot achieve good value.
On the contrary, it is precisely the inefficiency of such a market that creates value for buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
...The key to realising value is well ordered transparent markets...Those that think I and others should be devoting our lives for free in the service of the IDN community need to think again...I view estabishment of a secondary market is a key objective that has to be attained. I would quite happily have stood back and let others do this...
I am sure that we will all benefit from your efforts, RD, and I'm sure that others will follow in your footsteps to create the secondary market that is necessary to attain optimum value.

It is my opinion that the first DNLocal auction will be a success, even if only when viewed through the lens of time.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 2nd May 2007, 08:26 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Yes, and just to underline the point, we have had a highly respected member, who I know would never cheat anyone, retract a name because it failed the third party translation test. A disappointment to be sure, but a good indication that the system works!!!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

OK, PM the link to sign up as a buyer, please. I am on board.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 12:48 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsinternet
OK, PM the link to sign up as a buyer, please. I am on board.
I am in as well, just back from too much work and traveling. Finally got a chance to look over the auction, very nice job of setting up the platform and all the thought that went into putting this project together.

Since this thread seems to be open to members comments, here's my 2 cents. I would be more excited to visit (and revisit) the auction if there were more listings and offerings. And maybe add a daily or weekly "spotlight" domain to build interest and get people checking to see the days featured listing. Those could fall into any price range. Visiting the auction site and finding the same offerings and nothing new isn't going to get visitors coming over daily.

Also, maybe just for the beginning month or two, a more flexible range of price catagories would allow more buyers to have interest and participate at the get go. The market is small now, so maybe give it some consideration. That can always be raised as the market matures. $100+ $250+ $500+ $750+ $1000+ $2500+ $5,000+ $10,000+ $25,000+ just some ideas to get more people in and participating and more "auctioning" happening.

Also, like Burns said earlier it would be fun to see more super high end domains offered. Open up the big gun catagories...that would be fun and exciting to see. All in all, good luck and much success and thanks for the hard work on this.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 3rd May 2007 at 10:25 AM..
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 03:45 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Just signed on as a buyer.

If anyone has suggestions of other domain areas (language, industry) they'd like to see at the current auction minimums, post suggestions. I already posted mine. I will be putting domains up for appraisal to test reactions. Look for them here and at DNLocal.

Last edited by burnsinternet; 3rd May 2007 at 04:27 AM..
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 10:03 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Thanks for the comments and your input will be taken on board. We have a number of auction formats under consideration and all constructive input is most welcome.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 10:27 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
Sorry, I should have been a little bit clearer.

"Italy" in Japanese is not a prime term in my book. "Japan" in Japanese would be a prime term.

Hohhot is a decent term, I admit. I didn't see anything else I'd be interested in than perhaps Hohhot, and it is still not that interesting.

I'm just saying, if you want to have an elite auction, then put up some elite names!

.

Japanese IDNs command high PPC and rank easily on Yahoo, you can earn back the $500 in 6 mths (and probably in a much shorter time) if you get a freelancer to come out decent minisite. So why not??

Not all languages are of the same league.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 11:33 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Well I think we can promise you excitement. The Auction format allows for a lot of high quality names to close very quickly, and at short intervals between other good quality names. There will be no extension of Auctions, as I believe the greed of others has tended to kill the excitement of Auctions. Greed has been the motivation to introduce interminably extending Auction formats. In my view, this is totally counter-productive as it demotivates buyers, who realise there is little or no chance of sneaking a bargain. On the other hand buyers are very much put on the spot, because there are no second chances. I believe this kind of sudden death finish can provide some serious adrenaline rush, and we all know how addictive that can be.

Yes, we are looking at other format. The Elite Auction is set to be the flagship, and will be pushed progressively up market, with minimum reserves increasing as market conditions allow. Expect higher class names to come to the fore as sellers gain faith in the system.

Yes, we will be opening other formats. We want to provide a range of products but the market is not ready for all these ideas just yet. We also need to do a bit more technical work to enable things to be a bit more automated. I think the Elite Auction is the only one where we will require third party translations, so hopefully
we can streamline things a bit for other formats. Of course any feedback or input on our Auctions and where you would like to see them go will be most welcome.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
I am in as well, just back from too much work and traveling. Finally got a chance to look over the auction, very nice job of setting up the platform and all the thought that went into putting this project together.

Since this thread seems to be open to members comments, here's my 2 cents. I would be more excited to visit (and revisit) the auction if there were more listings and offerings. And maybe add a daily or weekly "spotlight" domain to build interest and get people checking to see the days featured listing. Those could fall into any price range. Visiting the auction site and finding the same offerings and nothing new isn't going to get visitors coming over daily.

Also, maybe just for the beginning month or two, a more flexible range of price catagories would allow more buyers to have interest and participate at the get go. The market is small now, so maybe give it some consideration. That can always be raised as the market matures. $100+ $250+ $500+ $750+ $1000+ $2500+ $5,000+ $10,000+ $25,000+ just some ideas to get more people in and participating and more "auctioning" happening.

Also, like Burns said earlier it would be fun to see more super high end domains offered. Open up the big gun catagories...that would be fun and exciting to see. All in all, good luck and much success and thanks for the hard work on this.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 11:41 AM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Well I think we can promise you excitement. The Auction format allows for a lot of high quality names to close very quickly, and at short intervals between other good quality names. There will be no extension of Auctions, as I believe the greed of others has tended to kill the excitement of Auctions. Greed has been the motivation to introduce interminably extending Auction formats. In my view, this is totally counter-productive as it demotivates buyers, who realise there is little or no chance of sneaking a bargain. On the other hand buyers are very much put on the spot, because there are no second chances. I believe this kind of sudden death finish can provide some serious adrenaline rush, and we all know how addictive that can be.

Yes, we are looking at other format. The Elite Auction is set to be the flagship, and will be pushed progressively up market, with minimum reserves increasing as market conditions allow. Expect higher class names to come to the fore as sellers gain faith in the system.

Yes, we will be opening other formats. We want to provide a range of products but the market is not ready for all these ideas just yet. We also need to do a bit more technical work to enable things to be a bit more automated. I think the Elite Auction is the only one where we will require third party translations, so hopefully
we can streamline things a bit for other formats. Of course any feedback or input on our Auctions and where you would like to see them go will be most welcome.
Looking forward to it all. Thanks for the update and information.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 12:50 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

so have more names been added now?

can you post them here, save me the trouble of remembering my login details over there?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 12:56 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
so have more names been added now?

can you post them here, save me the trouble of remembering my login details over there?
No loggin required to view, but you need to be qualified to bid:

dnlocal.com/eliteauctions

I would have to say, however, that this auction is not primarily aimed at those that cannot be arsed to show up.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 12:58 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
No loggin required to view, but you need to be qualified to bid:

dnlocal.com/eliteauctions

I would have to say, however, that this auction is not primarily aimed at those that cannot be arsed to show up.
wow, the Public Relations machine is in full-steam-ahead mode.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 01:14 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
wow, the Public Relations machine is in full-steam-ahead mode.
The Elite philosophy relates to the names in a specific auction format rather than an "Invitation Only" concept. We are not trying to create an elitist group as some have suggested. We are also not going to be trying to press-gang drunks in pubs either. I think most people here have got the concept of navigation by URL. Everyone is welcome to come and visit us and we would be even more delighted for you to take advantage on our Introductory Period offer for qualification.

We are of course aware that there is substantial sceptical and even lethargic crowd here. It is unlikely that we will motivate a significant number of members here to aspire to higher things. Everyone is being informed. Everyone has the opportunity to participate. Everyone of course has the freedom to bury their head in the sand.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 01:19 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

RD, you're open to feedback right?

and i'll try and be as constructive as possible.

I have already said that you need more quality names, and in that thread a few more people chimed in with the same feedback. But you chose to file it under the category of "la-la-la, i'm not listening, la-la..."

fair enough.

my next piece of feedback is that you are faced with an uphill struggle to get this to fly, you will agree with me on that.

so why on earth are you making life even harder by charging people to register?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 01:36 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Actually, I don't think things are going too badly. We seem to have a hard core of motivated buyers forming. Qualificaiton of buyers is key to our principle. We do not want a situation like the one at Sedo, which is now somewhat improved due to implementation of certain proceedures where people find it amusing to turn up bid anonmously and then never appear again. We also do not want a situation where buyers feel that the Auction is being in someway manipulated by the sellers. Frankly, the only way to avoid the normal abuses that most Auctions suffer is make people feel that is a priveledge to be qualified as a buyer.

As you will have noted that we have an Introductory Period where we have effectively made it free to join for those that sign up quickly. I can tell you that we have been discussion this morning about how and when this offer will terminate.

You are making judgements about the quality of names and success of our model which are untenable prior to the running of the first auction. I am not saying that you are not right, but it is a question of balancing supply and demand, and we will make ongoing judgements in this regard.

I believe we are listening but we will be listening most carefully to those that are registering names and who have already qualified as buyers. Listening doesn't mean implementing every suggestion that each individual puts forward. We did try to sample opinion before we came up with this Auction Model, we got very limited feedback. One thing is very obvious, is that the number of people in the domain industry that will work constructively to attain a useful mutual goal, is a lot smaller than those those that prepared to throw brik-bats at every available opportunity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
RD, you're open to feedback right?

and i'll try and be as constructive as possible.

I have already said that you need more quality names, and in that thread a few more people chimed in with the same feedback. But you chose to file it under the category of "la-la-la, i'm not listening, la-la..."

fair enough.

my next piece of feedback is that you are faced with an uphill struggle to get this to fly, you will agree with me on that.

so why on earth are you making life even harder by charging people to register?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 3rd May 2007, 01:55 PM
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Re: The Importance of Establishing an Viable Elite Auction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
... we got very limited feedback
and when you do get feedback, a torrent of abuse is released from your team (and i can't quite remember the context) accusing everyone of not wanting to help, being negative, not helping the market etc etc.

like i said, it's a PR car crash.


you are creating additional barriers to entry that needn't be there.

As much as you will disagree with me, this is not T.r.a.f.f.i.c, you are not going to sell out all your tickets, and have to try and come up with ingenious ways of creating barriers to entry just to shorten the attendee list. you should be making it as easy as possible. Not create a registration fee, but really refund it, but now thinking about removing that refund part. wtf is all that about.

I am so confused about what i would have to pay or not, or pay and get back or not - i can't be arsed. I'm just goin to hang around here instead and wait for the odd prime name to come up, IDN puts up some elite one from time to time
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