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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 8th May 2007, 07:36 PM
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DNS hosting for location-based parking

Hi,
I just thought of a brilliant idea to solve monetization of multi-language domains: point them to different parking providers (or even your own mini-site) depending on the location the surfer is coming from. For example, if you have a domain which means something in both chinese and japanese, chinese surfers could be directed to e.g. namerich, and japanese surfers could be directed to somewhere else.

I already do DNS hosting with redundant servers, I understand IDN technology, and I understand parking needs for this niche segment. I have a registered business in Finland, so this is completely legit. I could have this service working, albeit in a manual entry mode, by the weekend. I could probably have a web interface up for self-service within a few weeks.

As far as I know, nobody in the world offers this type of DNS hosting service. Most people don't need it, except for google and microsoft...

I am still thinking about the pricing plans, but they would be reasonable. I would go for the low-profit per domain, high number of hosted domains business model, with exceptions made for very high numbers of queries per month, of course.

If you are interested, please PM me. If you have technical questions, then please reply to this thread.

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Old 8th May 2007, 08:06 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

I think you're on to something here jacksonm!

So if I have kanji domains that mean something in both Japanese and Chinese I can go to your mgmt site and enter IP addresses for 2 different parking sites for each of my domains, right? I think you can find some customers here.

This is nothing I can't do myself without using a DNS solution of course. My name always resolves to my server, but after the request has found its way to my server I check the location and redirect to one of the parking sites based on that. Not a hard script to write.

So why do I think your idea is good? Redirecting at a later time by script is gonna be slower. Also doing it my way does not scale as easily. Doing it my way does not give me a nice web-based domain management interface so I don't lose track of what I'm doing. I can imagine clicking on checkboxes to change a dozen domains at a time. Another reason the idea is good - orphaned domains can be monetized by you to make some spare change!
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Old 8th May 2007, 08:19 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
I think you're on to something here jacksonm!

So if I have kanji domains that mean something in both Japanese and Chinese I can go to your mgmt site and enter IP addresses for 2 different parking sites for each of my domains, right? I think you can find some customers here.
This is exactly what I mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
This is nothing I can't do myself without using a DNS solution of course. My name always resolves to my server, but after the request has found its way to my server I check the location and redirect to one of the parking sites based on that. Not a hard script to write.
No, a redirect is not the same thing. With a redirect, if the user goes to "http://地獄.com", the user won't see the correct domain in the address bar when he's landed on the parking page. He will see something like: http://ndparking.com/地獄.com

With a DNS location system like I will build, a user from Japan who goes to "http://地獄.com" could be sent to IP address 1.2.3.4 and he will still see http://地獄.com in the address bar. A user from China who goes to http://地獄.com could be sent to IP address 1.2.3.5, etc...

HTTP redirection is not the same as DNS by location, as you can see.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
So why do I think your idea is good? Redirecting at a later time by script is gonna be slower. Also doing it my way does not scale as easily. Doing it my way does not give me a nice web-based domain management interface so I don't lose track of what I'm doing. I can imagine clicking on checkboxes to change a dozen domains at a time. Another reason the idea is good - orphaned domains can be monetized by you to make some spare change!
Thanks for your kind comments.

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Old 8th May 2007, 08:33 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
HTTP redirection is not the same as DNS by location, as you can see.
Absolutely a 2-thumbs up. My "running a script" scenario was meant to illustrate that the alternative is really just a hack that does not scale, and should not be the solution for commercial endeavors.

Imagine all the extra stuff going on in my alternative scenario:
  1. The domain has resolved to my server, // game over already in your scenario
  2. webserver responds and runs my script
  3. a 301 response is sent back to the client
  4. client issues another request to the appropriate parking site
  5. that request is finally routed to the parking service

I'm tired just writing it.

Some possible mods -
1. do the Moniker parking thing, rotate thru a short list of Chinese parking services looking for best revenue
2. let me specify backup parking, e.g. in case namedrive goes down I want my Japanese viewers to go here

Last edited by mdw; 8th May 2007 at 08:38 PM..
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Old 9th May 2007, 04:11 AM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

You can't map an address to multiple IPs.

What you're talking here is named cloaking or IP delivery and everyone is doing it for the most different reasons. Black hat SEOs use it to give SE spiders one thing and real visitors other... Is is used a lot, indeed, for serving local content. For instance, Google uses IP delivery for AdWords and AdSense advertising programs in order to target users in different geographic locations.

As a mean of determining the language(s) in which to provide content, IP delivery is a crude and unreliable method; many countries and regions are multi-lingual, or the requestor may be a foreign national. A better method of content negotiation is to examine the client's Accept-Language HTTP header.

As of 2006, many well-known and well respected sites have taken up IP delivery to personalise content for their regular customers. In fact, many of the top 1000 sites, including household names like Amazon (amazon.com), actively use IP delivery.
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Old 9th May 2007, 05:46 AM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose
You can't map an address to multiple IPs.
You are 100% wrong and quite obviously understand very little about DNS. That's OK. I have been building and running large, international networks for more than 10 years now. DNS servers which support location based views have been around for a long time, but it's not a commonly used feature because most folks don't need it.

An example of what I mean is if you query google.com from different locations, you get the IP address of their geographically closer server.

There is nothing "black hat" or "SEO" about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jose
What you're talking here is named cloaking or IP delivery and everyone is doing it for the most different reasons.
I am absolutely not talking about serving any content to anyone. I am absolutely not talking about IP delivery. I am absolutely not talking about intercepting HTTP traffic in any way, shape, or form. Please try to understand what I am talking about before insinuating that I am being dishonest.

BTW, that was a nice copy/paste from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloaking, maybe next time you should give them some attribution - it's the right thing to do. The article is quite accurate and written quite well, but it is apples and oranges to what I am talking about. The article is talking about when someone configures a single webserver to serve different content to different IP addresses. This is not at all what I have described, but I can potentially see how a novice could become confused.

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Last edited by jacksonm; 9th May 2007 at 06:02 AM..
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Old 9th May 2007, 04:21 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

LOL. You're a very sensible guy. "insinuating that I am being dishonest." Where?

Also, why did you need to search for "Cloaking"? LOL

"I am absolutely not talking about intercepting HTTP traffic in any way, shape, or form" -> If so, how do you know where the user is coming from? LOL
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Last edited by jose; 9th May 2007 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 9th May 2007, 04:40 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose
LOL. You're a very sensible guy. "insinuating that I am being dishonest." Where?

Also, why did you need to search for "Cloaking"? LOL

"I am absolutely not talking about intercepting HTTP traffic in any way, shape, or form" -> If so, how do you know where the user is coming from? LOL
By insinuating that what I claimed to be possible is not possible, you are by default insinuating that I am making a dishonest claim.

I knew that by your extremely uneducated response "you can't map an address to multiple ips", that you could not have possibly written that cloaking blurb all by yourself, so I wanted to find out where you plagarized it from.

Anyhow, I'm not here to teach you DNS or networking, there are books available for that. I'm putting up a service, and I already have 1 very large customer for the pilot.

Those who say it can't be done are usually interrupted by others doing it. Perhaps you could sell ad number 11 out of 12740 after a month of trying, instead of trying to discredit my ideas with technical ignorance.


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Old 9th May 2007, 05:41 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Such a potentially good discussion about an idea for offering a new service tailored to holders of certain kinds of IDN domains. Kudos jacksonm for thinking outside the box! And kudos for Jose for questioning it, even though you got treated pretty roughly for your efforts. I think the most useful comment was re: the accept-language header in the HTTP request.

Making decisions based on this user-definable preference has big advantages - like giving appropriate content to a Chinese expat living abroad wanting to get Chinese language content. Imagine a Japanese businessman working in China... That's an important point to make Jose, you're right. And guessing where someone is making a request from is always going to have a decent error rate. jacksonm - you're gonna have to explain to people at least a million times why guessing location by IP is not failproof.

But checking the accept-language string happens later in the chain of events, leaving a real opportunity for big advantages to be realized by settling the matter long before any request makes it to any webserver. The business opportunity is real - my 2 cents.
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Old 9th May 2007, 06:25 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
But checking the accept-language string happens later in the chain of events, leaving a real opportunity for big advantages to be realized by settling the matter long before any request makes it to any webserver. The business opportunity is real - my 2 cents.
I will be adding one more strongly requested feature to the service as well - the ability to show US based spiders Japanese advertisements when they index the parking page. This is also not based on IP delivery, rather making HTTP requests from US spiders appear to originate from a Japanese IP address. I think this will interest a great many people.

Another purported benefit is that the nameservers for the domain will not be associated with parking providers. Purportedly, googlebot ranks domains lower when their nameservers are set to parking providers.

I expect to have the service operational within a week. I will accept domains to be hosted during the 1 month trial for free, and I will enter them manually into the service. I won't invest the time in self-management web pages until I am certain that people really want to use this service on a continued basis.


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Old 9th May 2007, 07:05 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Dear God, jacksonm, are you talking serious?! Man, read my first post 100 times if needed, and tell me where do I say you're being dishonest. I wrote IT WAS POSSIBLE and used a lot. (The post was never edited!!!) I was posting a contributing post.

You're the one who started calling me a newbie!!! Are you defying me?
If so, I want an answer to my question: "I am absolutely not talking about intercepting HTTP traffic in any way, shape, or form" -> If so, how do you know where the user is coming from?

LOL
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Old 9th May 2007, 07:09 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

time out girls. who gives a crap who said what techie gibberish.

someone just build the damn traffic contraflow so we can make some more $$'s
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Old 9th May 2007, 07:14 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Jose, you are wrong. Sorry. Jackson has a solid concept.
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Old 9th May 2007, 07:26 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

jacksonm - while we are on the subject of honesty and transparency, maybe you should consider amending your sig:



i'm sure Olney doesnt mind people putting links in their signatures - but not stealthy ones that are invisible.
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Old 9th May 2007, 07:32 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
Jose, you are wrong. Sorry. Jackson has a solid concept.
I am wrong about what? Has everyone gone crazy in here? Plz explain.

Again, I SAID IT WAS POSSIBLE AND USED A LOT.
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Old 9th May 2007, 07:35 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
jacksonm - while we are on the subject of honesty and transparency, maybe you should consider amending your sig:



i'm sure Olney doesnt mind people putting links in their signatures - but not stealthy ones that are invisible.

Most parking providers do not allow self-promotion, but i guess invisible links are ok, ok right?
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Old 9th May 2007, 07:47 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
jacksonm - while we are on the subject of honesty and transparency, maybe you should consider amending your sig:



i'm sure Olney doesnt mind people putting links in their signatures - but not stealthy ones that are invisible.
:-) It was a test. BTW, there are others here, but I won't point them out.

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Old 9th May 2007, 07:52 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
... there are others here, but I won't point them out...
oh go on, we need to spice things up a little during these slow days
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Old 9th May 2007, 07:59 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
oh go on, we need to spice things up a little during these slow days
OK, as close as I'll go is to tell you to review the sigs of people in this thread, but be fast! (find the hidden link to h t t p://クレジットカード.com/ - http deliberately spaced out here by me so it's not automatically turned into an url ). There are still others around...

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1102...e-results.html


Anyway, back to the discussion at hand.

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Last edited by jacksonm; 9th May 2007 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 9th May 2007, 08:22 PM
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Re: DNS hosting for location-based parking

y must links be hidden? Google will penalize hidden content.

if you msut hide, use a light color.
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