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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 7th June 2007, 08:20 PM
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Future of .com in idns

I have already spoken about this issue but again: I think that .com has a future only in those languages which are spoken in different countries (the more, the better), which would want to form a common market-Spanish, Portuguese, French, Arabic. Spanish, for example-23 countries- they would need a common domain. Why would, say, Russia, Japan or China need .com? To be like americans? That's laughable. 8) Besides, there would be issues with who control .com zone, just watch chinese start promoting .cn, giving it for free or almost. Of course few dissidents might want .com/.org. They will still be used in latin script, probably even in europe, but to a lesser extent then in, say, Latin America where .com does not really have an alternative for a number of reasons. I cannot see many reasons for the rest of the world to use .com in future. China would be perfectly comfortable with .cn; Russia with .ru (or .rf). Why would, say, Russia, ever use .com? Of course, major corps might want to secure .coms if they are available but those are off limits anyway (useless-trademarks). Besides, if nobody would use them out of Russia, what do they care?
Do you get my point?
I think we might want to discuss it calmly and in objective fashion, I know it's a sensitive topic for many.
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Old 7th June 2007, 08:59 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Russians, Japanese, and others use dot com, too. They also happen to use their own ccTLD. That is like stating that no one would ever use dot net org etc because they can use ccTLD or dot com. That is the logical extension of your argument.

Dot com is not used to be like 'Americans' and I have no idea why you would write that. You stated that dot com is good for multi-country languages, so maybe dot commers want to be like Arabs or Spanish speakers?

Dot com is well known in the world and a good bet for IDN. I'll take all your dot coms if you do not want them. Let me know.
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Old 7th June 2007, 09:00 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Why is Clorox the number one selling bleach every year? Is it because the bleach is better? Nope. Why is Coke #1 and Pepsi #2. Coke got name recognition first.

I believe that for Japan .JP will be the most valuable extension from a brand perspective, but I also firmly believe the .COM will be a close #2- why? Because it does have some name recognition in Japan from the early days of the internet and that association does not just go away.
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Old 7th June 2007, 09:13 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsinternet

Dot com is well known in the world and a good bet for IDN. I'll take all your dot coms if you do not want them. Let me know.
It's one thing to be known and another 'to be used". there are clearly issues in many countries with using .com France, Germany, Russia, even Brasil (although Brasil is a special case) practically do not use .com or use it very little. Again, for a number of reasons. Germans do not use them exactly because they just do not need them-as in the case with russia as well. Coms are used in japan/china/Korea-true. But even there, I think .com will be secondary to jp/kr/cn and gradually lose ground to them.
Now, where .com is needed is where there is a number of countries speaking the same language and which do not have a common domain.
In the case of latin america add here a huge number of hispanics in US and geografical proximity of US to latin american countries (they are in US natural sphere of influence, simply put).

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsinternet

Dot com is not used to be like 'Americans' and I have no idea why you would write that. You stated that dot com is good for multi-country languages, so maybe dot commers want to be like Arabs or Spanish speakers?

Dot com is well known in the world and a good bet for IDN. I'll take all your dot coms if you do not want them. Let me know.
"dot commers want to be like Arabs or Spanish speakers"- sorry, don't understand what is the meaning of this. As far as my .coms , I don't have russian ones.

Last edited by tgtbtu2; 7th June 2007 at 09:20 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 7th June 2007, 09:25 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

All the top Korean websites appear to be .com's.
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Old 7th June 2007, 09:38 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgtbtu2
Why would, say, Russia, Japan or China need .com? To be like americans? That's laughable. 8)
Russia & Japan use dot com, dot net, etc. Maybe .ru and .jp will be better there. France, Germany, and Brazil do not use dot com or dot net so much, but they do use dot com if dot fr is not available. Who knows the future? This is speculation. I think IDN dot com will be fine. It is all opinion right now, anyway.
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Old 7th June 2007, 09:42 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

As to korean site using .com- there might be few reasons
-Korea (South) is heavily dependent on US
-.com is a logical choice now-cheaper.
-There is no idns yet in use.
What will happen when country idns come and if the respective countries start to promote them as better alternative to .com, nobody knows.
And in the case of russia and most of europe, there is a clearly manifested rejection of .coms for the most part now. Why would this change? Of course, some curious folk look these up-they can't look up .ru (rf) idn yet.

[QUOTE=burnsinternet]Russia & Japan use dot com, dot net, etc.QUOTE]
Japan does; Russia-does not. 99% of russian sites are .ru and those which use .com are often foreign-based (or foreign-funded).

Last edited by tgtbtu2; 7th June 2007 at 10:00 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 7th June 2007, 10:58 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgtbtu2
I cannot see many reasons for the rest of the world to use .com in future. China would be perfectly comfortable with .cn; Russia with .ru (or .rf). Why would, say, Russia, ever use .com? Of course, major corps might want to secure .coms if they are available but those are off limits anyway (useless-trademarks). Besides, if nobody would use them out of Russia, what do they care? Do you get my point? I think we might want to discuss it calmly and in objective fashion, I know it's a sensitive topic for many.
It has been mentioned many times as opinion by a few top Chinese domainers here that ".com is king" in China. Dot CN is getting more popular and someday may surpass .com especially if they give it away. Realistically, both .com and .cn or .jp are probably equally good extensions in Japanese, Chinese, and most countries that have gotten very much used to .com for well over a decade.

Also, think about the fact that China is going to need a LOT of domain names and a LOT of domain extensions to handle the amount of internet users and websites. The growth of internet and users there is staggering.
They may need to even expand .com to .com.com some day!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgtbtu2
And in the case of russia and most of europe, there is a clearly manifested rejection of .coms for the most part now.
Can your provide a source or even a few statistics to back this up.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 7th June 2007 at 11:37 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 7th June 2007, 11:04 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

here's my insight

spread bet

i bought and regged as many quality coms in as many languages as my budget would allow, and then topped it up with a pile of ccctld ie .jp

i am exposed in .cn, as i have none


but in the absence of a crystal ball, its all you can do - you place your bet you spin the wheel

i think i have bet on red and black.
heres hoping a zero doesnt come up
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Old 7th June 2007, 11:14 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
here's my insight

spread bet

i bought and regged as many quality coms in as many languages as my budget would allow, and then topped it up with a pile of ccctld ie .jp

i am exposed in .cn, as i have none


but in the absence of a crystal ball, its all you can do - you place your bet you spin the wheel

i think i have bet on red and black.
heres hoping a zero doesnt come up
I have 0 .cn... no reason to pay the chinese government when they could take away my .cn's tommorow.
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Old 7th June 2007, 11:47 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Pays your money and you takes your chance.

Nothing that is said on this forum will affect the outcome. Although some here seem to think that there arguments will move markets. They won't.

Dot com is a massive World Wide Brand, but it is true much of the focus of IDNs is local. The corollary is that whereas with ASCII, a ccTLD was useful to get you in the correct cultural and linguistics web space, all that can now more or less be derived simply from the script. For Asian IDN, it can be argued that ccTLD are more or less redundant. Put in a Japanese IDN in whatever extension and you will end up with Japanese Web Pages.

At the end of the day, it is all down to what companies perceive gives them most prestige. What they decide is important, because that is what drives markets. Nobody gives a toss what you or I think. It is what the World Class Websites use that will determine what people type in and what they invest in both as speculators and end users.

If you look at the three main areas of interest Japan, China and Russia, then we can easily see that dot com will achieve momentum before the Russians have finally decided what they are going to use. In China Dot com is still out in front, to my knowledge and much of the momentum in dot CN has been created through Government pressure. Dot CN is established, but there is little evidence to suggest that it going to unseat dot Com. Having followed this for a while most of the evidence suggests migration from ASCII.com.cn to IDN.com. In Japan, there is also very little evidence to date of massive moment in IDN.jp. Govenment support for IDN in Japan has been very weak, so there is little reason to believe that will change.

Does any of this mean dot com will win out or that Dot JP or Dot CN will dominate? The answer is that we will all have to wait and see, and the final answer is unlikely to be totally clear cut. I know, however, where my chips are stacked and I am happy with the decisions I have taken.
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Old 7th June 2007, 11:57 PM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
It has been mentioned many times as opinion by a few top Chinese domainers here that ".com is king" in China. Dot CN is getting more popular and someday may surpass .com especially if they give it away. Realistically, both .com and .cn or .jp are probably equally good extensions in Japanese, Chinese, and most countries that have used .com for over a decade.

Also, think about the fact that China is going to need a LOT of domain names and a LOT of domain extensions to handle the amount of internet users and websites. The growth of internet and users there is staggering.
They may need to even expand .com to .com.com some day!



Can your provide a source or even a few statistics to back this up.
What is there to back up? Just look at any russian word search results and count .coms you can find. You will find a few if you are lucky and then look at what they are. They are likely foreign-based, foreign-funded or specifically chosen so isp is outside of russia. There are very few of .coms there. Let's take Europe:
Nothern Europe does not use .coms practically at all-same as russia. Germany-no. France-some-again, because there is quite a few french speaking countries-former colonies (canada!) Spain-same thing-.com is used quite a lot-there are 22 other spanish-speaking countries.
As far as china-I think, the comment about chinese government taking domains away is of course an exageration but points to the fact that chinese government is not going to put up with foreign-controlled domains in China. So they will likely promote .cn. That said, good keywords would still be useful. But I desagree in principle with what some have said about .com being a king everywhere. It will be used where it will be useful and needed-according to political, economical or nationalistic considerations of every given country/language.
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Old 8th June 2007, 12:12 AM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Generally speaking the American brand is strong in Asia, especially so in China, followed by Japan and Korea. Does that answer your question?
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Old 8th June 2007, 12:13 AM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgtbtu2
What is there to back up? Just look at any russian word search results and count .coms you can find. You will find a few if you are lucky and then look at what they are. They are likely foreign-based, foreign-funded or specifically chosen so isp is outside of russia. There are very few of .coms there. Let's take Europe:
Nothern Europe does not use .coms practically at all-same as russia. Germany-no. France-some-again, because there is quite a few french speaking countries-former colonies (canada!) Spain-same thing-.com is used quite a lot-there are 22 other spanish-speaking countries.
As far as china-I think, the comment about chinese government taking domains away is of course an exageration but points to the fact that chinese government is not going to put up with foreign-controlled domains in China. So they will likely promote .cn. That said, good keywords would still be useful. But I desagree in principle with what some have said about .com being a king everywhere. It will be used where it will be useful and needed-according to political, economical or nationalistic considerations of every given country/language.
Yes, but the Russian handling of the IDN implementation to date has been a fiasco.

They may have the inside lane, but the rest of the field is going to be around the first bend before they get their track suit off.
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Old 8th June 2007, 12:17 AM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Yes, but the Russian handling of the IDN implementation to date has been a fiasco.

They may have the inside lane, but the rest of the field is going to be around the first bend before they get their track suit off.
There was an article yesterday on a very prominent russian business site about idns in zone .ru (actually they called for the fast implementation of idn.rf (stands for Russian Federation) already in 2008 and it was very much against idn.com as controlled by a foreign government.

Last edited by tgtbtu2; 8th June 2007 at 12:34 AM..
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Old 8th June 2007, 01:08 AM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

To have an idea how pro-america the chinese are, almost every other city office working chinese has an "american" sounding nick name. Almost everyone in Hong Kong has an English nickname.

Weird? No, it's for the money.
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Old 8th June 2007, 01:17 AM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

This is a dead horse that has been kicked too many times.

Just wait for it, all the speculation in the world is not going to help anybody now. The best names in all extensions are taken (.jp, .cn, .com).

As touch and I said in a thread way back, diversify.

P.s. Alpha, theres are more "zeroes" on the wheel than ya think!
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Old 8th June 2007, 01:18 AM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
To have an idea how pro-america the chinese are, almost every other city office working chinese has an "american" sounding nick name. Almost everyone in Hong Kong has an English nickname.

Weird? No, it's for the money.
'"how pro-america the chinese are,"
What are you smoking, I wonder? The "experts" like you have brought us into Iraq war. Remember:"They would meet us with flowers, they can't wait until, we, americans come and give them FREEDOM!!!!!!!"
Now we are counting body bags and don't know how to get out without losing much face.

But if you want to live in the land of dreams, you can spend your money on whatever pleases you. just don't fool others. Chinese are best friends of America, they all even have american-like nom-de-guerre! What a crap...
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Old 8th June 2007, 01:40 AM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgtbtu2
Chinese are best friends of America, they all even have american-like nom-de-guerre! What a crap...

Yes, the Americans themselves probably don't know, but this is a fact.

Watch this, it's quite funny also - http://www.danwei.tv/clips/sexy_beij..._translati.php
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Old 8th June 2007, 01:41 AM
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Re: Future of .com in idns

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgtbtu2
'"how pro-america the chinese are,"
What are you smoking, I wonder? The "experts" like you have brought us into Iraq war. Remember:"They would meet us with flowers, they can't wait until, we, americans come and give them FREEDOM!!!!!!!"
Now we are counting body bags and don't know how to get out without losing much face.

But if you want to live in the land of dreams, you can spend your money on whatever pleases you. just don't fool others. Chinese are best friends of America, they all even have american-like nom-de-guerre! What a crap...
Let's not turn this into a heated political discussion, shall we? That's not what we are here for.

True, without any DNAME news, Latin IDNs are probably the safest bet. But as they say "no risk - no reward". Even if the Asians prefer their own little cctlds, premium Asian idn.coms will make you rich just by having a great SEO value.

At this point, as many have said, the best bet is to have a diversified portfolio across languages.
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Last edited by Explorer; 8th June 2007 at 01:46 AM..
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