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Old 9th July 2007, 11:28 PM
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The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Hi guys,

Here you can show to the rest of us the results of your hard work (only if you want that is...) at developing some of your names. I figure a thread like this can be good for getting unbiased feedback on design and usability and maybe creating a few networking opportunities. I think a lot of people have at least a couple of names that are developed so hopefully the thread will catch on.

Let's make it a useful place to give constructive criticism based on your previous experience. Do not just post the URL and leave. Tell us a little about the name ( language, stats etc) and the steps that you had to go through to get your site where it is now and maybe also your short term and longer term objectives.

Here is one of mine to get things started...

http://vidéohumour.tv

Language: French

It is a 2 word combo meaning "funny video"
It has a 2 729 926 FR OVT for the month of may 2007

As always, I used a modded version of the Joomla CMS to get started. After modifying the header of a high quality free template with a basic logo, I was ready for content.

I officially opened it on the 1st of July. It is a site where the visitors can watch 5 new funny videos daily. To achieve that I embed videos from popular video websites. What makes it unique is that people will be able to discuss things in French. The site is very complete... features include: Membership system, Voting system, Comments system, Favorites system. There is also a random video from the database in the footer of the front page and the 5 videos of the day section where the visitors can play the 5 new videos on the same page.

My short term objective is obvioulsy to get the site indexed in depth and at the same time get more uniques. There is an adsense system in place and it should enventually cover expenses. What is neat is that it grabs the keywords for the ads from the meta tags I add individually to each video. So I do get ads about what is in the video. My long term objective is to spread the word about IDNs in the french market.

That is pretty much it for that domain. If you have any questions as to how I have included a particular feature, it would be my pleasure to help you out.

I'm looking forward to some comments and feedback on mine.
Also do post one of yours so you will get feedback too.

Nick
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Old 9th July 2007, 11:41 PM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicb5
Hi guys,

Here you can show to the rest of us the results of your hard work (only if you want that is...) at developing some of your names. I figure a thread like this can be good for getting unbiased feedback on design and usability and maybe creating a few networking opportunities. I think a lot of people have at least a couple of names that are developed so hopefully the thread will catch on.

Let's make it a useful place to give constructive criticism based on your previous experience. Do not just post the URL and leave. Tell us a little about the name ( language, stats etc) and the steps that you had to go through to get your site where it is now and maybe also your short term and longer term objectives.

Here is one of mine to get things started...

http://vidéohumour.tv

Language: French

It is a 2 word combo meaning "funny video"
It has a 2 729 926 FR OVT for the month of may 2007

As always, I used a modded version of the Joomla CMS to get started. After modifying the header of a high quality free template with a basic logo, I was ready for content.

I officially opened it on the 1st of July. It is a site where the visitors can watch 5 new funny videos daily. To achieve that I embed videos from popular video websites. What makes it unique is that people will be able to discuss things in French. The site is very complete... features include: Membership system, Voting system, Comments system, Favorites system. There is also a random video from the database in the footer of the front page and the 5 videos of the day section where the visitors can play the 5 new videos on the same page.

My short term objective is obvioulsy to get the site indexed in depth and at the same time get more uniques. There is an adsense system in place and it should enventually cover expenses. What is neat is that it grabs the keywords for the ads from the meta tags I add individually to each video. So I do get ads about what is in the video. My long term objective is to spread the word about IDNs in the french market.

That is pretty much it for that domain. If you have any questions as to how I have included a particular feature, it would be my pleasure to help you out.

I'm looking forward to some comments and feedback on mine.
Also do post one of yours so you will get feedback too.

Nick
whats the traffic like? is that 2.7 mil ovt?
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Old 9th July 2007, 11:55 PM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
whats the traffic like? is that 2.7 mil ovt?
While on parking I had a big 0 unique visitors... I started the site on the 1st of july and in 9 days i'm up to about 60 uniques. Keep in mind that i'm not indexed yet aside from a few pages... Most of the traffic came from word of mouth I guess.

And yes that is 2.7 million ovt
Check it out yourself at http://inventory.fr.overture.com/d/s...ry/suggestion/
Search "video" and see what comes up first!
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Old 9th July 2007, 11:58 PM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Nice website, I enjoyed your PO'd baseball manager video.
How many total videos will the site allow when it get fully going?
Seems 5 new videos a day should be 20- 25 IMO to get people coming back.
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Old 10th July 2007, 01:41 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Almost nobody has any dev'd IDNs here. It's all park pages. I have a build with 20k files and 11 IDNS multi language pointing to it but whenever I post or talk about it people just flame the thread.
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Old 10th July 2007, 01:53 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

This is a great initiative.
The more real websites we build with IDNs, the faster acceptance and value will come to those.

Here's my spinoff suggestion:
Have a permanent post in this forum that we populate only with links to developped real IDN sites from us and others, with maybe a one-line description.

This will create a quick reference sheet, augment awareness to their potential and also show that they are not just the next parking phase of domaining.

Of course, there will soon be too many of them to list, but we can say it started here.

How about it?
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Old 10th July 2007, 02:23 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Great site Nick... and really not too surprising coming from you (meaning the content and the fact you share it here - cool!).

Hope others here can offer any ideas to make it even better - my guess is maybe some can from an SEO etc. point of view and I hope they share.

Agree Pete... would be great to be able to view developed IDN sites - but think it should be limited to those with "real" content and not fast copy content over 4 page for hits sites (as those are purely for adsense really and number the 10000s for guys here).

What will be interesting is if Olney can somehow link those sites people add to hit rate / ranking information (so that developing can be compare them to parking and 3 page non-parked sites). Even if that is manually updated.

Question which begs really - is will guys here share... seems too many with good results prefer to shut up and not let others see what they are achieving or how they are achieving it.

Thanks Nick and cheers, Asiaplay
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Old 10th July 2007, 02:53 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

http://xn--12c8d1a4fxc.com
http://เกมส์.com

(games.com in Thai)

Averaging 4K uniques per day, and about 30K pageviews per day.
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Old 10th July 2007, 02:55 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
http://xn--12c8d1a4fxc.com
http://เกมส์.com

(games.com in Thai)

Averaging 4K uniques per day, and about 30K pageviews per day.
how much do u want for it
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Old 10th July 2007, 03:03 AM
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Thumbs up Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
http://xn--12c8d1a4fxc.com
http://เกมส์.com

(games.com in Thai)

Averaging 4K uniques per day, and about 30K pageviews per day.
Great site... and very Thai in design (love the logo!!!)
People at target age love these cute match it games like the dress up - very good concept for your target age market... impressed...
Theme I think will work very well in China, Korea, Taiwan and Japan as well (perhaps should repeat it in those as well...).

One of the best examples I have seem of an IDN developed site so far.. really good!

Thanks for sharing - cheers, Asiaplay
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Old 10th July 2007, 03:27 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Nice website, I enjoyed your PO'd baseball manager video.
How many total videos will the site allow when it get fully going?
Seems 5 new videos a day should be 20- 25 IMO to get people coming back.
Thank You for the comment! As for the total number of videos on the site, it is really the only question I have in mind right now. 5 does seem too few at times but at the same time I try to update it daily so say 5 x 365 = 1825 videos in one year. That is a lot! I fear that if I add more per day I will start to lack content eventually and lower the general quality of how funny the videos are. But I will definitaly take this suggestion in consideration... Maybe make it 10 daily instead. Thanks again for constructive suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbossmanxx
Almost nobody has any dev'd IDNs here. It's all park pages. I have a build with 20k files and 11 IDNS multi language pointing to it but whenever I post or talk about it people just flame the thread.
Maybe it is true that people don't have dev'd IDNs right now but I think most people will agree that it is not a good time to sell right now and do more and more focus on deving. Also I do not see why you couldn't post your dev'd stuff here so long that you kind of do what I did and provide us with a little story behind you development. Maybe it's the way that you presented it that attracted the flames I dunno!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
This is a great initiative.
The more real websites we build with IDNs, the faster acceptance and value will come to those.

Here's my spinoff suggestion:
Have a permanent post in this forum that we populate only with links to developped real IDN sites from us and others, with maybe a one-line description.

This will create a quick reference sheet, augment awareness to their potential and also show that they are not just the next parking phase of domaining.

Of course, there will soon be too many of them to list, but we can say it started here.

How about it?
Thank you for the reply. I agree a 100% with you... Anything that promotes the advancement of IDNs is a good thing in my book and a good thing for everybody's wallet. I wonder why people are so shy about it. I understand that there is a little more competition going on in certain languages but still dev'd site bring up the global awareness. If there are enough people wanting the dev'd IDNs database to happen, maybe something here will be done about it. If not I will take this matter in my own hands and create a site with what you requested. I do see this as a need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
Great site Nick... and really not too surprising coming from you (meaning the content and the fact you share it here - cool!).

Hope others here can offer any ideas to make it even better - my guess is maybe some can from an SEO etc. point of view and I hope they share.

Agree Pete... would be great to be able to view developed IDN sites - but think it should be limited to those with "real" content and not fast copy content over 4 page for hits sites (as those are purely for adsense really and number the 10000s for guys here).

What will be interesting is if Olney can somehow link those sites people add to hit rate / ranking information (so that developing can be compare them to parking and 3 page non-parked sites). Even if that is manually updated.

Question which begs really - is will guys here share... seems too many with good results prefer to shut up and not let others see what they are achieving or how they are achieving it.

Thanks Nick and cheers, Asiaplay
Thanks for the comment! A IDNs' directory will have to be done it seems... Many people seem interested and curious enough for that. I also agree on listing real deal dev'd sites, not just 3 page MFA sites. I think people just really care about their own portfolio, I mean I know most of you have awesome ones, but aren't you guys tired of waiting for IDN awareness to magically happen? I of course exclude the people that don't have access to a native to write content, but if you have the resources why wait any longer? Let's do something about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
http://xn--12c8d1a4fxc.com
http://เกมส์.com

(games.com in Thai)

Averaging 4K uniques per day, and about 30K pageviews per day.
Now that is what I am talking about! That will do wonders for thai IDNs. Good Job Domainguru! How big was the increase in traffic from parked to fully dev'd? Must have been huge! This is a very inspirational case! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 10th July 2007, 05:08 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
how much do u want for it
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Old 10th July 2007, 05:10 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Now that is what I am talking about! That will do wonders for thai IDNs. Good Job Domainguru! How big was the increase in traffic from parked to fully dev'd? Must have been huge! This is a very inspirational case! Thanks for sharing.
Increase in traffic? Basically from 0 or 1 pageviews a day to 30,000. I'll leave you to work out the % increase But seriously, in Thailand, its all about Google SEO. We are top 10 in google.co.th, but if we could get top 2 or 3, we would be doing 50K unique visitors per day, and 400K pageviews ....
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Old 10th July 2007, 09:15 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbossmanxx
Almost nobody has any dev'd IDNs here. It's all park pages. I have a build with 20k files and 11 IDNS multi language pointing to it but whenever I post or talk about it people just flame the thread.
Let's be honest, you already had that site ready for an ascii-domain, now you just point your relevant idn's to it, right ?

What would be really constructive for the systematic development throughout the community is the sharing of sources besides the sharing of results. It's really motivating to see these end-products but what's more interesting is the 3rd party sources you use to populate your sites and the webprogramming techniques you employ.

The big question is not just how do I develop a website, the big question is how do I develop 500 appealing near-maintenance-free websites using the same technique in a relatively short timeframe.

I do not consider a 1-pager as the final product, I am talking about dynamic content, user input, database functionality with a web 2.0 basis, using content that is user fed. The Thai site looks greats but can you sustain it without much effort ?

How would one employ Joomla to generate websites in bulk that look generally appealing and attract/hold visitors?

Last edited by bramiozo; 10th July 2007 at 09:59 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10th July 2007, 10:35 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo

The big question is not just how do I develop a website, the big question is how do I develop 500 appealing near-maintenance-free websites using the same technique in a relatively short timeframe.

I do not consider a 1-pager as the final product, I am talking about dynamic content, user input, database functionality with a web 2.0 basis, using content that is user fed. The Thai site looks greats but can you sustain it without much effort ?

How would one employ Joomla to generate websites in bulk that look generally appealing and attract/hold visitors?
You are talking about the holy grail of web development. We would all like a short cut to building hundreds of sticky websites with little effort, but I'm afraid life isn't that simple, and the holy grail just doesn't exist.
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Old 10th July 2007, 10:58 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Of course the holy grail exists !

It is called W O R K !

As I said yet, to generate hundreds websites, etc... I see one solution (there's probably others):
- HTML, php, css, Sql
- 5-10 includes in each pages
- you generate all with a database (title, include1, 2, meta, css....etc)

I don't want to say I know all, I'm the best, blabla, what I mean is WORK, WORK, WORK is the key (hey like in real world !)

As I said yet, it's no difficult, it's VERY interesting, and when you master these tools, you see other thing, other ideas...

Look José, he's (probably) a good developer, and because of that he's full of ideas !

And, if I could I would add: quality always pay !

"my 2 cents"

Regards
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Old 10th July 2007, 11:04 AM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by L@@K
Of course the holy grail exists !

It is called W O R K !

As I said yet, to generate hundreds websites, etc... I see one solution (there's probably others):
- HTML, php, css, Sql
- 5-10 includes in each pages
- you generate all with a database (title, include1, 2, meta, css....etc)

I don't want to say I know all, I'm the best, blabla, what I mean is WORK, WORK, WORK is the key (hey like in real world !)

As I said yet, it's no difficult, it's VERY interesting, and when you master these tools, you see other thing, other ideas...

Look José, he's (probably) a good developer, and because of that he's full of ideas !

And, if I could I would add: quality always pay !

"my 2 cents"

Regards
I was responding to bramiozo's "relatively short timeframe". I fully realize that such projects are possible with hard work. Its exactly what I am doing at the moment, developing our Thai portfolio. But it is work, it is hard work. You can "work smarter", but you still have to work.
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Old 10th July 2007, 04:15 PM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
The big question is not just how do I develop a website, the big question is how do I develop 500 appealing near-maintenance-free websites using the same technique in a relatively short timeframe.

I do not consider a 1-pager as the final product, I am talking about dynamic content, user input, database functionality with a web 2.0 basis, using content that is user fed. The Thai site looks greats but can you sustain it without much effort ?

How would one employ Joomla to generate websites in bulk that look generally appealing and attract/hold visitors?
Joomla or any competent CMS is definitely what you are looking for. I know my site maybe isn't the best looking of all it's just that buying a developer membership (a license to use the designs on unlimited domains) at a template club is out of my league for now, so I had to settle on a good looking free one. But let me show you how Joomla will save you time by showing you what I did for Vidéohumour.tv... I will assume that you know how to set up an addon domain at your webhost. I don't know how much you know about Joomla so I will keep this very basic so others can follow too.

Once my name is set up and that I have a subfolder for that site, I install a new copy of Joomla in that subfolder. I do this with Fantastico of course to automate installation... every respectable hosting company should offer that service. So in 1 minute or less I have a working copy of Joomla on my domain. I then log in the admin panel and do most of the work from there.

First thing, I install a translation file for the language I am working on. Joomla is wonderful in the sense that it has translations for the core modules in almost any language. This is awesome for us IDNers.

Once the translation is set in place ( takes maybe 5 mins to download it and install ), you should really think about what you want to accomplish with the site and install the extensions that you need. In my case, I wanted to have a daily funny video blog type of site so I installed an addon to the publishing system that lets me embed videos from 40 different video sites, all that with a few keystrokes. I also installed a commenting and enhanced voting system since that is also part of this kind of site. You can basically make the site do what you want with the extensions and they most of the time are already translated or you can easily do it yourself with the included php language file.

Once you have done all the modifications (anywhere from 30 mins - 2 hours), you can now select a template for your site. There are tons of free ones out there but the best by far are the commercial ones. The only thing bugging me is most of the time you can only use them on 2-3 domains with the provided license. If you have many sites you plan to do, you can buy a developer license on sites called template clubs which allows you to use any of their templates on unlimited domains. Those licenses usually cost 250-300 USD. That is definitly what I am planning to purchase next.

After the template hunting is done, the fun begins! You can start experimenting with module placement. Joomla, like all the CMSes, is extremely modular so every element of you site can be moved or removed in a mouse click. And I do mean ANY element. Once you are happy with placement (Trust me, it is the part that you will waste most of your time since it's so cool to try out different module placements), you then do Adsense integration or just whatever ad publisher you are working with... there are plugins for almost everyone of them.

The final part is of course to write your content and market your site. That is the part that isn't left to Joomla to do. But hey since most professional templates pass W3C validation on XHTML and CSS and that Joomla uses SE friendly URLs, it kind of helps you out on the marketing part too since SE will LOVE your site. If you want to help them further, install a sitemap component. Mine generates XHTML, XML and TXT sitemaps as the site is updated. Also if you want, you can easily plug it into Google analytics with an invisible module.

All of what I have mentionned so far is without writing a single line of code. Need I say EFFORT FREE? I kinda frown at the thought of that since I am a web designer and those sites aren't unique at all but from a IDNer point of view... It's perfect! And you can always create your own plugins if you code PHP.

This now brings me to the bulk deployment issue... You will love this too! There is a commercial extension out there called "JoomlaCloner" and it's about 30 euros. What it does is pretty simple... It clones your current site including all extensions and modifications you might have done with it to another instance of Joomla. It is primarily used for backup purposes but the real big advantage here is bulk website production... Just do a dummy installation of Joomla, install all translations, many extensions, clone it and there you go you have an extremely powerful and portable website. You can set it up as many times as you like, it can use any language, any extension... To only have to customize template and content later on. A real timesaver and totally worth it's price.

This isn't an endorsement letter or anything, if you don't like Joomla...fine. But I just thought I'd share how easy it was for me to get the website of the ground and all of that for FREE.

I hope this answers a few questions, I know I suck at explaining but it is a very vast subject and the only way to really feel the power is to try it out yourself.

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Old 10th July 2007, 04:49 PM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

nicb5 - thanks for the insight into your development process, a credible joomla development methodology that surely will be useful to some
Would you say this has the other CMSes beat hands down these days?

domainguru - how about a little insight into your terrific games site instead of traffic stats; it would be interesting to many here I'm sure

For example: how much time and money did it take to build it, what would you do differently if doing it over again, when do you expect it to become profitable (maybe it has already), will you use the same development methodology again, lessons learned, etc.

xxbossmanxx - tips? tricks? advice?

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Old 10th July 2007, 06:22 PM
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Re: The "Showcase your developed IDNs" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw

domainguru - how about a little insight into your terrific games site instead of traffic stats; it would be interesting to many here I'm sure

For example: how much time and money did it take to build it, what would you do differently if doing it over again, when do you expect it to become profitable (maybe it has already), will you use the same development methodology again, lessons learned, etc.
ok, here goes .....

Don't have any idea about cost of putting the site together, simply not interested in cost-benefit at this stage of the game. Our team (3 people) know that in Thailand, its going to take another 2-3 years before there is critical mass of IDN browsers in use, so we are all basically putting in our time for free. By building this site and then our network, we are hoping to ensure we are way ahead of the game when IDNs go mainstream here.

Technical details are LAMP development with heavily customized game script, running on a local server in Bangkok. This kind of heavy use site just wouldn't be possible if it was running outside Thailand because of the international bandwidth restrictions here.

What we have learnt about monetization is that if you don't have a business in Thailand, you are stuffed at the moment for any kind of monetization. That will all change when Google Adsense arrives, but I don't know when that will happen (was supposed to be happening in 2007 but ...)

We developed this site first because it is easily (very easily) the most searched term by Thais. Our theory being if we can get a top ten placement for "games", we can get top ten for anything. So basically it was a search engine experiment. So on that score, it has been a success. We have been top 10 consistently for a few months now.

But the current site is not monetizing well. It is well established amongst "free flash game" site owners that they convert pretty horribly. Visitors are motivated to play free games, not buy anything. We could convert better if we added other sections to the site e.g. PC games, console games.

Another thing we have learnt is that google is the only player in town here. Forget Yahoo! and MSN, they simply don't matter. Only google.co.th (around 93% of traffic) and google.com (around 5% of traffic) matter.

So now we have proved the concept of generating traffic via a top-10 google.co.th placement, we are moving onto building out our site network. We have put together a custom development environment (again using LAMP) to categorize our domains, and have customizable templates for each category.

There's probably another couple of dozen things we have learnt, but I won't try and drag them out of my memory. In the end, you learn by attempting things, seeing what works, what doesn't, and following a path that suits your skills and objectives. That varies with the individual.

What I do know is that if you want to develop Thai money-making sites you need:
a) A server in Thailand
b) Some kind of business presence here
c) SEO skills (=google)
d) Thai language skills

If you want to build a large number of sites, you will also need some kind of "system" to manage them, which will more than likely require custom programming.

That's all folks!
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