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IDN Domain Appraisals Appraisals by other members on International domain names.

View Poll Results: % of its .com counterparts' "snap price"
0% ($0.00, no interest / no value at all) 1 8.33%
below 1% 6 50.00%
1% - 5% 4 33.33%
5% - 10% 0 0%
10% - 20% 0 0%
willing to pay as much as its .com :p 1 8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10th July 2007, 05:58 PM
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How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT .com

.poll expired

thank you all for your precious time

Last edited by Silhouette; 19th July 2007 at 04:03 PM..
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10th July 2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

I like the korean.infos but they don't seem to be popular on idnf. I keep thinking about putting a few up for sale to cover some renewals that are coming due, but the ones that go up for sale here don't seem to get much attention.

I would hold for now.

Good luck with your names.

tee1
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Old 10th July 2007, 06:11 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by tee1
I like the korean.infos...... up for sale here don't seem to get much attention.
Yes... many good names while seems lack of end-users market yet
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Old 10th July 2007, 06:15 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Korean (not referring to domains) has been doing well in Asia the past 1-2 years.

In Singapore, the taxis which are always toyotas and nissan is now being replaced by hyundais.

Samsung electronics now sells better than Sony, even for premium tier product offerings.

Asia always leads the trend, the effect will spread over to the north american and european market next few years.
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Old 10th July 2007, 06:26 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Korean (not referring to domains) has been doing well in Asia the past 1-2 years.

In Singapore, the taxis which are always toyotas and nissan is now being replaced by hyundais.

Samsung electronics now sells better than Sony, even for premium tier product offerings.

Asia always leads the trend, the effect will spread over to the north american and european market next few years.
With the Samsung LCD screen, it's not hard to imagine.
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Old 10th July 2007, 06:38 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silhouette
With the Samsung LCD screen, it's not hard to imagine.

For the case of korean, it's not just price and tech, there's also soft influence involved, the multitudes of korean dramas especially those like Dae Jang Geum had great impact on chinese markets. And i can see that the impact won't pale to hollywood, if not greater.
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Old 10th July 2007, 07:33 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Samsung electronics now sells better than Sony, even for premium tier product offerings.
I remember when we bought a samsung microwave oven because that was the only one we could afford, in about 1983. Back in those days in the US, the word samsung was equivalent to junk in most people's minds. That microwave lasted until 2002.

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Old 11th July 2007, 12:54 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Jacksonm, funny that Samsung Microwaves is mentioned - it was for those and fridges Samsung was pulled up for anti-dumping in the USA and Europe by the authorities... sure it was a bargain back then - lol (it is good things are better these days ).

Back to IDN names and resellers - I believe only an end user would pay these prices at the moment (or a reseller with a contract with an end-user)... and this must be a unique phone market battle (with a Western educated SEO involved - or an overseas company who is scared on legal issues to own the .kr ones or can not due them being in competitors hands or a tax write-off). Personally think this price was more than a little high, given the market averages at the moment.

Sorry to rock the boat, but I would still pay double for the .kr version over the .com version - as I am sure .kr will be supported in Korea where people are nationalistic and still not 100% sure that the .com IDN hipe is nothing more than that, if you are targeting one given country which has a local ccTLD which is credible (however saying this, I would not want to pay anything near this for the .com one at the moment - so point is I do not see the .kr one being worth double what was paid for the .com).
Back to point of this post (but previous comments help explain more the following)... likewise I see the .info to be worth a lot, lot less, than the .com (but why is a good question... basically as I doubt that it is likely, that it will get the same treatment SEO wise for Korea that .kr, .com or .biz etc. will get... but also perhaps as I see this extension being for information and a little like a .org - personal / club based thing perhaps.. rather than as commercial in nature that a .kr, .com or .biz would be).
Namely, I buy .info as a blocker to competitors (not as a serious development option).

Yes and commercial decisions should be what is driving IDN prices - although with some of the ascii sales amounts, I wonder how people can get the return they pay for some of the domains they buy.

But interesting question too - what % profit are resellers expecting (as well as risk of a .info thrown in)... I guess answers this poll... scary bit is that if someone would only pay 20% of the final price, suggests their minimum acceptable reseller margin is pretty high or they do not see .info as having any real value (but then again... I guess few of us believe that tomorrow someone is going to run in and pay USD40K for any of our IDNs - couple of exceptions in the forums of course.. who dream this every night and and will actually make a sale one day sooner perhaps, rather than later at those levels... although don't think anyone believes it will be for their .info extension).

Perhaps an even more interesting question would be - what is the maximum dollar amount people reselling, would invest in a non-country or city IDN, which they did not have a signed reseller contract for? (for .ccTLD, .com, .net, .biz, .info etc.... but beg that a question like this, using more than one poll, run in one posting, can not be run using the software this forum is based on)?
Big reseller boys & girls here... of interest what is the most you have paid for an IDN so far (that is not a country name)?

Cheers - Asiaplay

Last edited by Asiaplay; 11th July 2007 at 01:01 AM..
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11th July 2007, 12:58 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
Jacksonm, funny that Samsung Microwaves is mentioned - it was for those and fridges Samsung was pulled up for anti-dumping in the USA and Europe by the authorities... sure it was a bargain back then - lol (it is good things are better these days ).

Back to IDN names and resellers - I believe only an end user would pay these prices at the moment (or a reseller with a contract with an end-user)... and this must be a unique phone market battle (with a Western educated SEO involved - or an overseas company who is scared on legal issues to own the .kr ones or can not due them being in competitors hands or a tax write-off). Personally think this price was more than a little high, given the market averages at the moment.

Sorry to rock the boat, but I would still pay double for the .kr version over the .com version - as I am sure .kr will be supported in Korea where people are nationalistic and still not 100% sure that the .com IDN hipe is nothing more than that, if you are targeting one given country which has a local ccTLD which is credible (however saying this, I would not want to pay anything near this for the .com one at the moment - so point is I do not see the .kr one being worth double what was paid for the .com).
Back to point of this post (but previous comments help explains more the following)... likewise I see the .info to be worth a lot, lot less, than the .com (but why is a good question... basically as I doubt that it is likely, that it will get the same treatment SEO wise for Korea that .kr, .com or .biz etc. will get... but also perhaps as I see this extension being for information and a little like a .org - personal / club based thing perhaps.. rather than as commercial in nature that a .kr, .com or .biz would be).
Namely, I buy .info as a blocker to competitors (not as a serious development option).

Yes and commercial decisions should be what is driving IDN prices - although with some of the ascii sales amounts, I wonder how people can get the return they pay for some of the domains they buy.

But interesting question too - what % profit are resellers expecting (as well as risk of a .info thrown in)... I guess answers this poll... scary bit is that if someone would only pay 20% of the final price, suggests their minimum acceptable reseller margin is pretty high or they do not see .info as having any real value (but then again... I guess few of us believe that tomorrow someone is going to run in and pay USD40K for any of our IDNs - couple of exceptions in the forums of course.. who dream this every night and and will actually make a sale one day sooner perhaps, rather than later at those levels... although don't think anyone believes it will be for their .info extension).

Perhaps an even more interesting question would be - what is the maximum dollar amount people reselling, would invest in a non-country or city IDN, which they did not have a signed reseller contract for? (for .ccTLD, .com, .net, .biz, .info etc.... but beg that a question like this, using more than one poll, run in one posting, can not be run using the software this forum is based on)?
Big reseller boys & girls here... of interest what is the most you have paid for an IDN so far?

Cheers - Asiaplay
Not surprised with your view. People that get in late that don't have that many premiums usually take the latter view. .com's have alot of value in korea....... check google
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11th July 2007, 01:27 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
Not surprised with your view. People that get in late that don't have that many premiums usually take the latter view. .com's have alot of value in korea....... check google
I am not saying they do not have value... but just wondering if over time some bias might be put on ccTLDs over .coms (by the search engines & the locals)... this is all.

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: but is a theory I am interested in (and perhaps has no real answer for another 5 years when IDNs I believe will be mainstream) - as are decisions like (what extension should I be paying for and promoting in Korea... so really I am open on the topic - is also why I present a strong angle in posting... hoping I get some constructive feedback - thanks for comments).
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Old 11th July 2007, 01:29 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
I am not saying they do not have value... but just wondering if over time some bias might be put on ccTLDs over .coms (by the search engines & the locals)... this is all.

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: but is a theory I am interested in (and perhaps has no real answer for another 5 years when IDNs I believe will be mainstream) - as are decisions like (what extension should I be paying for and promoting in Korea... so really I am open on the topic - is also why I present a strong angle in posting... hoping I get some constructive feedback - thanks for comments).
korea also has a strong domainer community... i think .com and .kr will both be very sought after... there are also no plurals in korea.

having a .com and a .kr is like having two coffee shops competing coffee.com coffee.kr (both in korean)
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Old 11th July 2007, 01:47 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
Personally think this price was more than a little high, given the market averages at the moment.
I have my doubts that you know what the 'actual' market average is. Good names will command top prices regardless of what is made public or whether the market is as you see it. What is on display in this forum by way of sales and prices paid for domains is not necessarily a true reflection of the actual market. Whereas companies and businesses have to have clear, concise and transparent accountability, this business does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
Sorry to rock the boat, but I would still pay double for the .kr version over the .com version - as I am sure .kr will be supported in Korea where people are nationalistic ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
so point is I do not see the .kr one being worth double what was paid for the .com).
So you would or you wouldn't pay double for the .kr?

And do you think people are more nationalistic in Korea than say, in Germany, Thailand or elswhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
... of interest what is the most you have paid for an IDN so far (that is not a country name)?
If you're not aware of it by now then it's unlikely you will ever be made aware of it for a variety of reasons.
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Old 11th July 2007, 03:23 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
I am not saying they do not have value... but just wondering if over time some bias might be put on ccTLDs over .coms (by the search engines & the locals)... this is all.

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: but is a theory I am interested in (and perhaps has no real answer for another 5 years when IDNs I believe will be mainstream) - as are decisions like (what extension should I be paying for and promoting in Korea... so really I am open on the topic - is also why I present a strong angle in posting... hoping I get some constructive feedback - thanks for comments).

Possible. Trends doesn't show statistics for korea - http://www.google.com/trends?q=.com%...ate=all&sort=0

With idn.idn, it might be tough to say about the future, but that will be the future anyway. And the future can be anything, take Chinese for example, if dname happens and idn.idn does prove to be popular, .net will translate many times better than .com. OTOH, the lack of a chinese translation for .com might be it's very strength.
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Old 11th July 2007, 05:17 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

hi guys

appreciate all input thanks

keep the votes coming....
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Old 11th July 2007, 07:39 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Hi Mulligan,

Thanks for response / comments.

Agree... I can only estimate the average based on what registrar staff & others holding some IDN's I was wanting were quoting to me for .kr (interesting enough everyone quoted USD2K consistently - but I agree the mobile ones should perhaps be higher than the ones I was looking at).
Reason I viewed this as a possible average is that the guys quoting are large portfolio holders of .kr (seems that at present this is the case still a lot in Korea - namely so far I have not a large % are being used by companies for biz yet).
But I am the first to agree that I am no authority on Korea - it is just personal opinion (as my research base is too small to be credible really).

Point was trying to make above (I should have added couple of words to end of point was sentence above to make it clearer) - is that in the mobile case I would not pay double for the .kr... as I see the .com version being over-priced (but IDNs are like real estate - they are worth whatever anyone thinks they will add to their business position or personal position to own - and in that case, it is what they were worth).

Therefore generally at present I would prefer to own the .kr... (if thought the price was right then I would pay double... but you are right at the moment the quotes I have had for .com & .biz etc. are higher than the .kr ones (and Westerners holding good Korean .com IDNs are on the whole holding out and waiting for the market where I have enquired so far - namely are not even selling)... so this is all in theory... point is I prefer the .kr ) - so yes (within sensible limits).

Comments on nationalism are difficult - I really prefer to not compare different countries - but as a general comment, I would say the Koreans & Chinese on the whole are very nationalistic (but comments in particular also relate to a position I think perhaps Governments might indirectly take, with their hands on approach in the market... evident in things we can see like censorship for public good and in Korea & China.. and for Korea having to be based there to own IDNs to a certain degree etc.) - just personal gut feeling for the future and not based on any research as such.
Comments on .com & .biz are in part so that people who believe the world of IDNs will be based around .com as it is for ascii can think a little.

Yes - I can only guess what someone like yourself Mulligan and other large holders of IDNs would have paid as a maximum (and my guess is it is generally what the bids in here are) - but I will never know for sure... which is why I asked the question (but really did not expect too many replies on this lol ).
Due to this I should add if the .com or .biz was reasonably priced I would perhaps forget the .kr (but this is partly also as I am not a company with a large budget or share of the Korean market yet).
As an add on to this - in the same instance I would prefer the .fr or .de or .jp etc. for those markets.

Cheers and thanks for comments... at end of day it doesn't really matter what I think, the market will not be driven by me to the slightest degree (and if it is even to a very, very, very small fraction, it will be positive as I am educating those I know in marketing around me about IDNs and why they are useful at all slowly).
Partly raise points to learn and partly to get people thinking...

Thanks - Asiaplay
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Old 11th July 2007, 09:09 AM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
Hi Mulligan,

Thanks for response / comments.

Agree... I can only estimate the average based on what registrar staff & others holding some IDN's I was wanting were quoting to me for .kr (interesting enough everyone quoted USD2K consistently - but I agree the mobile ones should perhaps be higher than the ones I was looking at).
Reason I viewed this as a possible average is that the guys quoting are large portfolio holders of .kr (seems that at present this is the case still a lot in Korea - namely so far I have not a large % are being used by companies for biz yet).
But I am the first to agree that I am no authority on Korea - it is just personal opinion (as my research base is too small to be credible really).

$2k for what kind of names? What OVT?

Generally, since the asian financial crisis, north east asia is quite safe - large reserves and leading in manufacturing.

Short term economic corrections aside (i expect this to happen soon), on the medium to longer term, asia is a high growth region with cash backing.

Last edited by touchring; 11th July 2007 at 09:15 AM..
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Old 11th July 2007, 01:27 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
$2k for what kind of names? What OVT?

Generally, since the asian financial crisis, north east asia is quite safe - large reserves and leading in manufacturing.

Short term economic corrections aside (i expect this to happen soon), on the medium to longer term, asia is a high growth region with cash backing.
Touchring - happy to share...
Overt was around 160,000 for the top couple at this rate (but also some lower overts between 20K and 60K for a few others)... seems they were not really valuing them on overt - strange I agree, but is what I was seeing in the quotes over the various ones (namely no price difference).
More importantly perhaps to an idea of their worth, is that they were all top level product category keyword IDNs... so worth more overall, than just their overt value in this case (just sharing as you would not know this otherwise).

Agree later once Chinese Big Biz guys realise about IDNs, someone will be paying super high - purely so they can say they own a top level keyword (even if that is the only real value they see for 5 years after buying it... but suspect they will also develop... as some guys are cash rich in China - really just too cash rich)
.
Interesting enough, I suspect that in places like China those more industry product specific keywords will be worth more than the insurance and financial ones in the short to medium term (as due to Government control in those too industries, I suspect they will only have perceived value to Western companies and once those industries truly open up in China).

For Korea and Japan, I feel they will develop faster overall (people I believe understand the internet and SEO there, more than in China... for China it will be big hit sales or low under interesting ones for awhile I suspect.

Hope comments are interesting to some degree - sometimes I think I am starting to rave here lol

Cheers - Asiaplay
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Old 11th July 2007, 02:58 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
Hi Mulligan,

Thanks for response / comments.

Agree... I can only estimate the average based on what registrar staff & others holding some IDN's I was wanting were quoting to me for .kr (interesting enough everyone quoted USD2K consistently - but I agree the mobile ones should perhaps be higher than the ones I was looking at).
Reason I viewed this as a possible average is that the guys quoting are large portfolio holders of .kr (seems that at present this is the case still a lot in Korea - namely so far I have not a large % are being used by companies for biz yet).
But I am the first to agree that I am no authority on Korea - it is just personal opinion (as my research base is too small to be credible really).

Point was trying to make above (I should have added couple of words to end of point was sentence above to make it clearer) - is that in the mobile case I would not pay double for the .kr... as I see the .com version being over-priced (but IDNs are like real estate - they are worth whatever anyone thinks they will add to their business position or personal position to own - and in that case, it is what they were worth).

Therefore generally at present I would prefer to own the .kr... (if thought the price was right then I would pay double... but you are right at the moment the quotes I have had for .com & .biz etc. are higher than the .kr ones (and Westerners holding good Korean .com IDNs are on the whole holding out and waiting for the market where I have enquired so far - namely are not even selling)... so this is all in theory... point is I prefer the .kr ) - so yes (within sensible limits).

Comments on nationalism are difficult - I really prefer to not compare different countries - but as a general comment, I would say the Koreans & Chinese on the whole are very nationalistic (but comments in particular also relate to a position I think perhaps Governments might indirectly take, with their hands on approach in the market... evident in things we can see like censorship for public good and in Korea & China.. and for Korea having to be based there to own IDNs to a certain degree etc.) - just personal gut feeling for the future and not based on any research as such.
Comments on .com & .biz are in part so that people who believe the world of IDNs will be based around .com as it is for ascii can think a little.

Yes - I can only guess what someone like yourself Mulligan and other large holders of IDNs would have paid as a maximum (and my guess is it is generally what the bids in here are) - but I will never know for sure... which is why I asked the question (but really did not expect too many replies on this lol ).
Due to this I should add if the .com or .biz was reasonably priced I would perhaps forget the .kr (but this is partly also as I am not a company with a large budget or share of the Korean market yet).
As an add on to this - in the same instance I would prefer the .fr or .de or .jp etc. for those markets.

Cheers and thanks for comments... at end of day it doesn't really matter what I think, the market will not be driven by me to the slightest degree (and if it is even to a very, very, very small fraction, it will be positive as I am educating those I know in marketing around me about IDNs and why they are useful at all slowly).
Partly raise points to learn and partly to get people thinking...

Thanks - Asiaplay
Thanks, now I have proof that you have no clue about the IDN market... 2k for korean .kr? You said its worth double .com? TRY getting a nice korean .com for $2k. The korean natives have ALL quoted me $100,000 and up for .com.
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Old 11th July 2007, 04:22 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
Agree later once Chinese Big Biz guys realise about IDNs, someone will be paying super high - purely so they can say they own a top level keyword (even if that is the only real value they see for 5 years after buying it... but suspect they will also develop... as some guys are cash rich in China - really just too cash rich)
.
Interesting enough, I suspect that in places like China those more industry product specific keywords will be worth more than the insurance and financial ones in the short to medium term (as due to Government control in those too industries, I suspect they will only have perceived value to Western companies and once those industries truly open up in China).

IMO, Chinese is a long shot as far as development goes, but eventual PPC returns will far exceed korean or japanese. There's a lot of working out the communist party needs to do in china before it can even reach "stable status" - like the corruption, the extreme poverty and lawlessness in inner provinces. This isn't a 5-year or 10-year plan kind of thing, like you can do for a city or small country of tens of million of people. China's gone through the political revolution, the cultural revolution, it now has to go through the economic revolution.
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Old 11th July 2007, 04:51 PM
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Re: How much do you think it is a bargain? Korean gTLD:휴대폰 / 핸드폰 counterparts -- NOT

If it happens, it won't take five years. Nothing is going to happen until the browsers that support IDN are widely available in the target countries, but once that happens, things will move quickly. Basically, if you don't have an IDN URL, you are unlikely to stay in business very long. It will be as simple as that.

Dinosaurs were around for over a 100 million years. They died out in the wink of an eye!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay
I am not saying they do not have value... but just wondering if over time some bias might be put on ccTLDs over .coms (by the search engines & the locals)... this is all.

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: but is a theory I am interested in (and perhaps has no real answer for another 5 years when IDNs I believe will be mainstream) - as are decisions like (what extension should I be paying for and promoting in Korea... so really I am open on the topic - is also why I present a strong angle in posting... hoping I get some constructive feedback - thanks for comments).
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