IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > Regional Specific Discussion > 域名

域名 Discussion for Chinese IDN domain names. Chinese domains include .cn, .com, & .net.
This section is for discussion only Please do NOT post Chinese domains for sale here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 01:44 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 93
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 519
zfreud is an unknown quantity at this point
China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Finally a Journalist who actually did their homework.


"China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not"

1st March 2006
By Kevin Murphy
China may have today divorced itself from the internet's American-run authoritative domain name system, if a report from that nation is accurate.

But there is substantial doubt that the country, long known as one of the key opponents to the US's lock on the internet's naming and addressing systems, has in fact set up its own alternative DNS root system.

An announcement from the Chinese Ministry of Information Industry on Monday said that a number of new Chinese-language top-level domains, including the Chinese equivalents of .com and .net, will be added to the DNS in China today.

The English-language version of the People's Daily Online later reported "this means internet users don't have to surf the web via the servers under the management of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers of the United States."

For some observers, this indicated the start of the long-feared Balkanization of the internet. By setting up a non-ICANN root DNS system, the chances of incompatibilities emerging in cross-border internet traffic would be increased. Emails may reach the wrong targets. Surfing to overseas sites may become unreliable.

For example, influential internet law professor Michael Geist blogged that "the Chinese internet becomes a reality tomorrow", saying that Chinese internet users will get access to "a competing .com", no longer relying exclusively on ICANN.

Currently, the DNS is set up as a hierarchy with a single top layer. Every DNS query ultimately takes its lead from a root server directory managed by ICANN under contract with the US government's Department of Commerce.

That arrangement is controversial in some nations, and was subject to years of debate within the UN's World Summit on the Information Society. WSIS concluded last November that the status quo, on DNS matters at least, should continue.

While many have expected China to attempt a split from the ICANN-managed root, there is considerable doubt among internet experts today that China has indeed gone down the alternate root path.

Combine an authoritarian government's PR machine, the Chinese media, a highly technical subject matter, and a far from eloquent translation into English, and the assertion that China has split from ICANN may be unreliable.

As of press time, ICANN staffers we spoke to did not have the final word from China on what had happened, but there was a sense that it was not as bad as some reports had made out.

John Klensin, former head of the Internet Architecture Board, told us he believes that China has not in fact launched its own rival DNS root. It's more likely the country has just updated the Chinese naming system that has been active for many months.

"There's probably some desire here to make a splash with this news, and it could be less to do with the DNS than you'd like to think," said Klensin, who now, retired, works as a consultant with several East Asian organizations on internationalized domain name matters.

"As far as I can tell, what they're doing is using DNS forwarders, much like ISPs do," he said. "If you get something that looks like a top-level domain in Chinese, you append .cn to it and then resolve it... it's not something we should get excited about."

In other words, rather than thumb its nose to the US an set up a whole new root to deal with Chinese-language domains, the nation has merely mandated that its ISPs recognize certain Chinese suffixes and translate them so they can resolve in the regular DNS.

A similar idea was used by a US firm, New.net, which tried to sell non-ICANN domains such as example.shop and example.sport, and paid ISPs to resolve them.

A system like this has been in place in China since at least March 2005, according to California and Singapore-based i-DNS.net Inc, which supplies software for translating internationalized domain names into ASCII-compatible DNS.

This means that if a user types in example.com in Chinese characters (.com would be something like ".gongsi" for "company", but we don't have the character set to reproduce it here), the ISP adds ".cn" to the end, and it resolves in China's own DNS, which is still ultimately tied to the ICANN root.

To the everyday Chinese web surfer, it would look like .gongsi and .com are hierarchical equals, but to the international ICANN-managed DNS, it would appear, more accurately, that .gongsi is actually subordinate to .cn

Link to article: http://www.commentwire.com/article_n...9-A86456D858BB

Last edited by zfreud; 1st March 2006 at 01:48 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 02:01 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,806
iTrader: (19)
Rep Power: 682
Giant is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

This is exactly what I think based on what I have seen. I don't think China would split their root server from ICANN.

China just wants to create some noise to force US to release their control of the internet to UN.
__________________
@

Dot Com is King. IDN.com will soon be king.
@

Last edited by Giant; 1st March 2006 at 02:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 02:28 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2200
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
This is exactly what I think based on what I have seen. I don't think China would split their root server from ICANN. China just wants to create some noise to force US to release their control of the internet to UN.
To split off certainly would not be in China's best interests image-wise in the world community. With the Beijing Olympics just around the corner in 2008, and the opportunites that presents to showcase the country, this would not make public relations sense. They stand to gain too much, including a lot more business around the world and increased exposure to every country of the world.

China's desire for increased investment and trade with the world community will only be hampered if they pull out or attempt to circumvent ICANN. It would also no doubt be detrimental to maintaining their unprecedented growth in national GNP. China has many options to manage internet information without making this drastic choice, and this is already seen in the "arm-twisting" of Google and Yahoo to do business on their terms and restrictions.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 3rd March 2006 at 01:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 02:56 PM
touchring's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,547
iTrader: (29)
Rep Power: 1257
touchring is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

".gongsi" and .com are 2 different extensions, i do not know why people mix them together. ".gongsi" had been around for 3 years and people are still treating it as news!

Last edited by touchring; 1st March 2006 at 03:08 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 03:27 PM
sarcle's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,717
iTrader: (22)
Rep Power: 1726
sarcle will become famous soon enoughsarcle will become famous soon enoughsarcle will become famous soon enoughsarcle will become famous soon enoughsarcle will become famous soon enoughsarcle will become famous soon enoughsarcle will become famous soon enough
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
".gongsi" and .com are 2 different extensions, i do not know why people mix them together. ".gongsi" had been around for 3 years and people are still treating it as news!
The problem isn't the reporters, the problem is Icann and Verisign not stepping up to the plate and giving answers to these problems. Explorer is right we need to do everything we can now to voice our opinions to Icann and get them to approve Dname as soon as possible.

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1204....html#post8246

The fight over the spoils was premature and finally over. The war needs to finally begin and NOW!
__________________
I can hear the death rattle of fiat from here...

Last edited by sarcle; 1st March 2006 at 03:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 06:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,806
iTrader: (19)
Rep Power: 682
Giant is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcle
The problem isn't the reporters, the problem is Icann and Verisign not stepping up to the plate and giving answers to these problems. Explorer is right we need to do everything we can now to voice our opinions to Icann and get them to approve Dname as soon as possible.

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1204....html#post8246

The fight over the spoils was premature and finally over. The war needs to finally begin and NOW!
I think we really need to form a group or organization, a trully international group to voice our concerns and our demands. Something like "IDNforums members" or "IDN users association". We have so many talented people in the forum, I suspect that we even know more about IDN than the people at ICANN or Verisign. Without an official title, it's hard for Dave or someone else in our group to commucate to the authorities involved and get their serious attentions.
__________________
@

Dot Com is King. IDN.com will soon be king.
@

Last edited by Giant; 1st March 2006 at 06:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 06:34 PM
Drewbert's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,091
iTrader: (20)
Rep Power: 0
Drewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgy
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

>I suspect that we even know more about IDN than the people at ICANN or Verisign

Many of the original "ring-in" ICANN board members didn't even know how the Internet worked.

People who did, were voted onto the board by the people.

They now no longer have board positions avaialble to them and some of the original ring-in's are still sitting pretty, casting votes.

If you think these people will give your International Association 5 seconds of thought regarding their decisions, you're fooling yourself, and about to put time into something that will not have an ounce of leverage.
__________________
It's all jaded style to me.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 09:00 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2200
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert
> If you think these people will give your International Association 5 seconds of thought regarding their decisions, you're fooling yourself, and about to put time into something that will not have an ounce of leverage.
Please explain how you know this as a matter of fact...
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 1st March 2006, 09:06 PM
Edwin's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 966
iTrader: (6)
Rep Power: 903
Edwin is on a distinguished roadEdwin is on a distinguished roadEdwin is on a distinguished roadEdwin is on a distinguished roadEdwin is on a distinguished roadEdwin is on a distinguished road
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Please explain how you know this as a matter of fact...
Um, Drewbert's been in domains about as long as the Web has existed (or it seems like it). There's a lot more to the domaining world than these forums, so just 'cos he's new IN HERE doesn't mean a thing

As he posted elsewhere, many of us went through the same learning curve of desire to action vs actual powerlessness in 1999 or thereabouts.
__________________
JapaneseDomains.com - cheap .jp registrations, English interface, no local presence needed. Alphabet and IDN names. Hefty bulk discounts.
Please don't PM me for appraisals or translations, thanks.
All sales threads over 1 week old are no longer valid, period!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 2nd March 2006, 01:40 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2200
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin
Um, Drewbert's been in domains about as long as the Web has existed (or it seems like it). There's a lot more to the domaining world than these forums, so just 'cos he's new IN HERE doesn't mean a thing As he posted elsewhere, many of us went through the same learning curve of desire to action vs actual powerlessness in 1999 or thereabouts.
I can appreciate that. This is a good opportunity to provide insights into the operating structure of ICANN. I'm interested, perhaps others as well. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 2nd March 2006, 03:23 AM
Drewbert's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,091
iTrader: (20)
Rep Power: 0
Drewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgy
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

>insights into the operating structure of ICANN

Top down masquerading as bottom up.
__________________
It's all jaded style to me.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 2nd March 2006, 03:49 AM
burnsinternet's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: http://idn.icann.org
Posts: 2,238
iTrader: (15)
Rep Power: 719
burnsinternet is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

An interesting parallel discussion at http://www.circleid.com/posts/chinas...n_translation/
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 2nd March 2006, 04:03 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 413
iTrader: (2)
Rep Power: 537
OldIDNer is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

http://www.computerworld.com.au/inde...8;fp;16;fpid;0
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 2nd March 2006, 05:39 AM
touchring's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,547
iTrader: (29)
Rep Power: 1257
touchring is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

The computerworld report is not totally correct. The CircleID discussion is closer to reality

Last edited by touchring; 2nd March 2006 at 05:42 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 2nd March 2006, 12:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 413
iTrader: (2)
Rep Power: 537
OldIDNer is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

We've known about these idns.net extensions already existing and approved by CNNIC for a type of .com, .net for a long time. So, if Verisign creates a Chinese .IDN to dname to IDN.com, it will have to use a different character, or else there will be conflict.

The main point of that report was that China has not suddenly created some new TLD that replaces or is conflicting with some other ICANN tld.

The other point is CNNIC and ICANN are working together on this IDN issue and are not adversaries - so it remains to be seen how Chinese Verisign .IDN, if there will be one, will be implemented. Meanwhile, Verisign Chinese IDN.com exists and there is no other Chinese IDN.com.

Last edited by OldIDNer; 2nd March 2006 at 01:08 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 2nd March 2006, 12:13 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4508
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Please refer to parallel thread.

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1198...rden%22-a.html
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March 2006, 12:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 413
iTrader: (2)
Rep Power: 537
OldIDNer is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsinternet
An interesting parallel discussion at http://www.circleid.com/posts/chinas...n_translation/

interesting discussion
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March 2006, 12:59 PM
touchring's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,547
iTrader: (29)
Rep Power: 1257
touchring is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: China Splits from the Internet? Probably Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldIDNer
We've known about these idns.net extensions already existing and approved by CNNIC for a type of .com, .net for a long time. So, if Verisign creates a Chinese .IDN to dname to IDN.com, it will have to use a different character, or else there will be conflict.

The main point of that report was that China has not suddenly created some new TLD that replaces or is conflicting with some other ICANN tld.

The other point is CNNIC and ICANN are working together on this IDN issue and are not adversaries - so it remains to be seen how Chinese Verisign .IDN, if there will be one, will be implemented. Meanwhile, Verisign Chinese IDN.com exists and there is no other Chinese IDN.com.
This really sums up the reality. Circleid discussion is getting too technical with all the talk on DNS,i'm getting confused the more i read.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:48 AM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54