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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 2nd August 2007, 01:30 AM
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I just noticed today that...

This morning I was going to type in a Japanese IDN into the URL line of my IE7 running on Vista and I noticed that even though I start out inputting in hiragana as soon as I type "." IE7 AUTOMATICALLY switches me to ASCII input. That is, all this time I have been Alt+ ~ ing to go into ASCII mode when IE7 does it automatically for me.

This means effectively that typing in the ASCII extension to an IDN domain like 水商売.jp is more efficient by one keystroke then I, at least, had assumed. The question is of course, who actually figures this out or is this even subconsciously useful? What does everyone think? Net net this is a good thing or irrelevant?
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Old 2nd August 2007, 01:34 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Well it is going to make bugger all difference until William decides that he actually does want his latest browser to be part of the global Internet experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
This morning I was going to type in a Japanese IDN into the URL line of my IE7 running on Vista and I noticed that even though I start out inputting in hiragana as soon as I type "." IE7 AUTOMATICALLY switches me to ASCII input. That is, all this time I have been Alt+ ~ ing to go into ASCII mode when IE7 does it automatically for me.

This means effectively that typing in the ASCII extension to an IDN domain like 水商売.jp is more efficient by one keystroke then I, at least, had assumed. The question is of course, who actually figures this out or is this even subconsciously useful? What does everyone think? Net net this is a good thing or irrelevant?
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Old 2nd August 2007, 03:24 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

One small step closer. Also interesting in that it serves as a predictor of sorts, of Microsoft's view of the timeline to realize full IDN.IDN
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Old 2nd August 2007, 03:41 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
This morning I was going to type in a Japanese IDN into the URL line of my IE7 running on Vista and I noticed that even though I start out inputting in hiragana as soon as I type "." IE7 AUTOMATICALLY switches me to ASCII input. That is, all this time I have been Alt+ ~ ing to go into ASCII mode when IE7 does it automatically for me.

This means effectively that typing in the ASCII extension to an IDN domain like 水商売.jp is more efficient by one keystroke then I, at least, had assumed. The question is of course, who actually figures this out or is this even subconsciously useful? What does everyone think? Net net this is a good thing or irrelevant?

Interesting, this had always been the case for firefox. When did u discover it 4 IE7? Or u just tried for the very first time and it works?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
One small step closer. Also interesting in that it serves as a predictor of sorts, of Microsoft's view of the timeline to realize full IDN.IDN

Not just a small step. The switch key argument is the biggest mindblock to the DNF guys. They can't figure out how non-english typing people can type .com. ;p

Last edited by touchring; 2nd August 2007 at 04:29 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 2nd August 2007, 07:09 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Not just a small step. The switch key argument is the biggest mindblock to the DNF guys. They can't figure out how non-english typing people can type .com. ;p
If I'm not mistaken, there's at least one language that does not require any switching modes in Windows to type the .com - Vietnamese!
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Old 2nd August 2007, 09:56 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Not just a small step. The switch key argument is the biggest mindblock to the DNF guys. They can't figure out how non-english typing people can type .com. ;p
To have a mind block, you need a mind!
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Old 2nd August 2007, 10:56 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
To have a mind block, you need a mind!

Everyone got a mind, the question is whether that is an open mind or closed mind.

Ultimately, the market for IDNs will have to come from natives. Today i did a quick research on FDI in China, and the results are astonishing. You can see from there that the people involved in China economic development are mostly from East Asia, and the West plays only a small role, and missing out on future opportunities:

Table 4: Top 10 Origins of FDI*
*Note: Does not include financial sector flows.
Source: MOFCOM
Country/Region of Origin Amount Invested
2005 ($ biliion) Amount Invested
2006 ($ billion) Year-on-Year
Growth (%)
Hong Kong $17.95 $20.23 13
British Virgin Islands $9.02 $11.25 25
Japan $6.53 $4.60 -30
South Korea $5.17 $3.89 -25
United States $3.06 $2.87 -6
Taiwan $2.15 $2.14 -1
Singapore $2.20 $2.26 3
Cayman Islands $1.95 $2.1 8
Germany $1.53 $1.98 29
Western Samoa $1.36 $1.54 13

Last edited by touchring; 2nd August 2007 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 2nd August 2007, 11:05 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Everyone got a mind, the question is whether that is an open mind or closed mind.
Look these guys are not closed to the idea of English.com, but have a look at what they buy. Is that really having a mind?
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Old 2nd August 2007, 11:15 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Look these guys are not closed to the idea of English.com, but have a look at what they buy. Is that really having a mind?
You either embrace change, resist it, or follow blindly without realizing what's happening.

The big ascii guys will try to use all of their influence to make people believe that IDNs are 2nd class domains, since they hold first class ascii domains and don't want to see them lose local market share to an eye dee en. As far as this battle goes, I don't even think we've seen the tip of the iceberg yet. After IDNs extensions are officially entered into the root, you can expect random "outages" where everything except IDN.IDN resolves - and they will blame it on the same untruths which ICANN is currently using to drag their feet. Remember, there are some 12 root servers under ICANN and some of them are controlled by people who are powerful in the ascii domain industry. "Hey Jethro, grab me another beer while I comment out the Chinese alias for .com on m.root-servers.net, he he he. That'll throw those eye dee enners some excitement for the weekend.".


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Old 2nd August 2007, 11:28 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

I somehow doubt that such arseholes will be in charge of the ones that matter geographically.

Unauthorised pissing about with Root Servers that is going to affect resolution in Japan and China would create a major international incident. ICANN would have to act to ensure that its authority was not undermined and US control of the Internet would be further weakened if not negated altogether.

Moreover, the US high ground on a lot of issues relating to China would be totally lost. How could Bush rant on about censorship in China or maintain any credibility when pushing his constant barrage of misinformation on China? Not only that by Monday morning, he would be lucky to be able to borrow the taxi fare to Camp David.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
You either embrace change, resist it, or follow blindly without realizing what's happening.

The big ascii guys will try to use all of their influence to make people believe that IDNs are 2nd class domains, since they hold first class ascii domains and don't want to see them lose local market share to an eye dee en. As far as this battle goes, I don't even think we've seen the tip of the iceberg yet. After IDNs extensions are officially entered into the root, you can expect random "outages" where everything except IDN.IDN resolves - and they will blame it on the same untruths which ICANN is currently using to drag their feet. Remember, there are some 12 root servers under ICANN and some of them are controlled by people who are powerful in the ascii domain industry. "Hey Jethro, grab me another beer while I comment out the Chinese alias for .com on m.root-servers.net, he he he. That'll throw those eye dee enners some excitement for the weekend.".


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Old 2nd August 2007, 11:49 AM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
I somehow doubt that such arseholes will be in charge of the ones that matter geographically.
All of the root servers matter geographically. They do not simply serve allocated geographic regions of the planet. However, some of them do have many replicas, and the geographically closest are used first in the failover lists allocated by ISPs to their users via DHCP.

http://www.root-servers.org/


Most large companies, though, don't use DNS information from an ISP - they have their own DNS resolvers sitting at the edge of their networks, and those resolvers are configured with the full list of IP addresses for A-M root servers. Most ISPs operate in the same manner, they use the full list instead of information from their upstream provider.

Some of the root server operators have been suspected to have ties to big spam kings as well... These guys really do wield ultimate power over the internet, they can wreak havoc for short periods of time and blame it on a bug or malfunction. They are masters of plausible denial - read the NANOG (North American Network Operators Group) mailing list archives for a while and you'll see some really wild stuff.

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Old 2nd August 2007, 12:17 PM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
One small step closer. Also interesting in that it serves as a predictor of sorts, of Microsoft's view of the timeline to realize full IDN.IDN
I doubt Microsoft have any clue of when IDN.IDN will happen. Its not like they have been "ahead of the game" with any aspect of IDN ....

Incidentally, I don't think the "language auto-switching" works for Thai IDNs. I couldn't get it to work, but maybe because I don't have a standard Thai Windows install. I'll try again when I'm not hungover :p
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Old 2nd August 2007, 12:45 PM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
I doubt Microsoft have any clue of when IDN.IDN will happen. Its not like they have been "ahead of the game" with any aspect of IDN ....

Incidentally, I don't think the "language auto-switching" works for Thai IDNs. I couldn't get it to work, but maybe because I don't have a standard Thai Windows install. I'll try again when I'm not hungover :p

Try firefox, it worked for pinyin ime Chinese. I used to type in chinese.com and it was a breeze to be able to type a complete idn without pressing the alt-shift. I believe that this feature can boost our type-in very significantly for our non-latin IDNs.
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Old 2nd August 2007, 12:51 PM
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Re: I just noticed today that...

It may just be a subtle rouse to get IDN.IDN to fail!

Not that any of this really bothers me one way or another. For ASCII to effectively attack IDN, first they have to understand it. If they understand they will invest.
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