Japanese IDNers - time to add comments to this post

[Asiaplay]

Hi All,

I have a couple of Western friends who have been based in Japan for decades.
I recently introduced IDNs to them...
One posted a thread on his blog on IDNs... might be good for some of you to reply - especially people like Olney, Edwin etc.

Link is:- http://www.stippy.com/japan-tech/idn...omain-names-1/

I will not post the article here as is very long... but it is a chance for some of you to once again make some comments and balance the opinion base against IDNs.
Also think is better for those fluent in the Japanese culture arena to add their piece.

Cheers - Asiaplay

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by Asiaplay

Hi All,

I have a couple of Western friends who have been based in Japan for decades.
I recently introduced IDNs to them...
One posted a thread on his blog on IDNs... might be good for some of you to reply - especially people like Olney, Edwin etc.

Link is:- http://www.stippy.com/japan-tech/idn...omain-names-1/

I will not post the article here as is very long... but it is a chance for some of you to once again make some comments and balance the opinion base against IDNs.
Also think is better for those fluent in the Japanese culture arena to add their piece.

Cheers - Asiaplay

Heh,
Cool, he's giving me free advertising. I wondered why the views at namedrive had recently shot up for these three domains. BTW, I said 50k, not 25k :-)

Honestly, this guy doesn't really sound like your friend to me if he makes that type of response to something which you introduced him to.

Tell him that I have a japanese domain which is currently getting 600-700 uniques a day since it got indexed two weeks ago. It's earning me between 5-8 bucks a day, just sitting in the background - this is enough to subsidize my entire portfolio of undeveloped names. I don't care how anybody argues it, when Japanese see a Japanese URL, they will subconciously click it first.

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[Rubber Duck]

I have rarely seen anyone use as many words to say precisely nothing!

[Asiaplay]

Jacksonm - this is my friends, friend... agree good point is you get a link... bad is it is not all positive in the post.

But this is a learning curve which everyone goes through - good thing is that they are now starting to.

However this is the general feeling it seems of a lot of Westerners based in Japan... I didn't have the heart to post here what some of the other Tokyo based SEOs fed back to my other Tokyo based friend via e-mail - as realised when it made me angry reading it, it would make people here just pissed off.

Which is why I posted this link here - as I think it is education time... so that those in the advertising and SEO area in Tokyo can all wake up (know Olney, Edwin and others have... but not all have).

Opps - 25K / 50K... opps - no problem - you own the domains - and can sell them for whatever like... good thing is they are getting some exposure now in the Tokyo arena
But maybe good to clarify this with an e-mail to Mal directly (ok?).

Cheers - Asiaplay

AGREE RUBBERDUCK - MAKE COMMENTS THERE AND NOT HERE... THANKS

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by Asiaplay

However this is the general feeling it seems of a lot of Westerners based in Japan...

Hell, it's the general feeling among a lot of the westerners around the entire world.

If these guys are in SEO for business, they will certainly not like the fact that engines are giving extremely strong preference to even weak content IDNs - and there aren't any IDNs left for them to buy. This means they need to go back over their tracks and fight to keep their domains up on top. A definite reason to spread FUD.

.

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, but it will only be effective if sufficient numbers of people find the time and energy to read and comprehend his interminable ramblings.

The mindless sound bites of the US ASCII mob are in many ways more effective.

Originally Posted by jacksonm

Hell, it's the general feeling among a lot of the westerners around the entire world.

If these guys are in SEO for business, they will certainly not like the fact that engines are giving extremely strong preference to even weak content IDNs - and there aren't any IDNs left for them to buy. This means they need to go back over their tracks and fight to keep their domains up on top. A definite reason to spread FUD.

.

[Asiaplay]

Understand... comment as you like (and think is worth the effort)... cheers, Asiaplay

PS: I think that some of the anti comments among SEO guys... sure Olney etc. will know more on this than I can even comment... (which this guy who made this post is not by the way - he is not an SEO)... is exactly that guys... they are protecting or brain washed on ascii... I just find it amazing when foreigners who have taken years to get fluent in Japanese, do not even see what I think is a reality - that IDNs will grow and will dominate one day for sure.
Interestingly enough, foreigners based in China who are fluent in Chinese, are not taking the same approach - is strange to me that those in Japan are for this reason.

Reason raised here is as I think these guys (and ones like them) are the link between the West and Japan to a large degree... so them understanding will result in others understanding more (namely they give Japan business advice on a daily basis).

[jacksonm]

Yes, it's surprising that they are living in Japan and still too narrow minded to grasp what's going on.

BTW, my traffic passed yesterday's total after only 6 hours into today for my top site, although the yahoo ranking only moved from spot 15 to 14. It looks like I'll easily hit 1200 visits today. I'll have to think about upgrading my server if this sucker starts to rank in the top 4.

I think that given a list of SERPS, Japanese/Chinese/Arabs will be drawn like a magnet to the IDN if they see one. Foreigners wouldn't generally grasp this type of subliminal effect, regardless of if they are "stippies".

.

[Olney]

Asia Play
Thanks for the link but I am just not into arguing over whether IDNs will be successful or not.

1. At the end he quotes a Japanese page written in 2003 with complaints about IDNs. Up until 2005 August I thought IDNs weren't going to be used either.

2. His example of an IDN Japanese should would like to use should be a generic domain.

It's a whole days worth of technical fluff. My company has a Japanese ad agency partnered with us that some of their staff is in our office. IDNs are ranking for certain campaign keywords (none that I'm involved with)& who do you think they are asking why it's happening.

I can talk about technical problems too, & most of us Japanese portfolio owners residing in Japan see it as another 2 to 3 years before everything is ironed out. We know this & fully expect all issues that the average Japanese will face will be ironed out by then.

1. Google Search is IDN compatible
2. Yahoo Search is IDN compatible
3. Hosting companies are upgrading to become IDN friendly, some are already are the biggest already is.
4. IDN.jp cost LESS (NOT A MISTAKE) than dot com ASCII.
5. Doing my research the other day I realized IDN.jp & ASCII.jp both started at the same time. IDN.jp's only problem was "the browser"
6. nonEnglish speaking Japanese do not type in URLs because they simply will keep making mistakes in spelling.

He's not making any reference on how it enhances the web experience for Japanese.

If he wants to write something impressive
take 5 Japanese who can't speak a lick of English & show them 10 IDN domains (Generics)
Ask them what the site is about
Ask them to say the domains they just saw.

Show them 10 domain names in English for the equal amount of time
Ask them to remember what they saw
Ask to write what they saw
Ask them what the sites about.

Then he'll start seeing what I see everyday.
Yes they will say "I didn't know we could use Japanese"
But no one will say it's harder to use Japanese, unless they are talking to a nonJapanese.
I'll keep thinking of my strategy for next years development.

[Asiaplay]

Cheers and thanks for comments Olney, totally agree...

It is also true that even without education, IDNs will in the not too distant future be very powerful in Asia.

Maybe it is just worth you putting a comment, that if they want an up to date today view on the future of IDNs - then why not come and read idnforums.

Cheers and thanks again for running a great forum - Asiaplay

[blue]

Hi guys, Im the author of that article on stippy.com. I just did a search for stippy and IDN and found you guys talking, and thought I'd join in.

I have read all of your posts here, and I am still not convinced. Can you give me some concrete examples of IDNs that have sold for tens of thousands of dollars I am seriously interested in the topic, and if you can prove me wrong, I would be more than glad to post your counter points in part 2 - but only if I can be confident that they are accurate. Your generalizations in the comments above are not very convincing so far.

One (stupid?) question first. Don't you have to own 日本語.com and nihongo.com to make them really have affect? You could loose a lot of traffic to the other, if you only own half... Japanese people do remember nihongo.com just as easily as they remember 日本語.com, at least anyone under 40 does, and face it, they are 95% of internet users. Your statements in this area are not so accurate. For example, there is only one alternative of nihongo.com in a real domain name. Whereas, there is 日本語.com, にほんご.com, ニホンゴ.com (not to mention にっぽんご.com) in Japanese. Japanese people would have to recall which one it was that they saw when they go home to their computer, or your would have to own all of these be sure. Its like if NIHONGO.com and nihongo.com were two different things... how easily could you recall which one it was that you saw written on the side of a bus today..?

To Rubber Duck:
>> Yes, but it will only be effective if sufficient numbers of
>> people find the time and energy to read and comprehend
>> his interminable ramblings.
>> I have rarely seen anyone use as many words to say precisely nothing!

This only proves that you find research tedious, and cant be bothered dealing with "mere details". People who complain about articles being tiresomely long, generally are not very useful in discussion, and add little value. What are interminable ramblings for you, are facts and reasoning for others who actually bother to read. They are the people that matter - you are just wasting bytes on this server's hard drive - give us a comment that means something, or proves your point, rather than defensive rhetoric.

To Jacksonm:
>> Yes, it's surprising that they are living in Japan and still too narrow minded..

That a wildly general and sweeping statement that is entirely unfounded. I was surprised to read this. I know that I know Japanese people, culture and trends (AND LANGUAGE!) more than you do, and probably ever will - full stop. Take a look at who is calling who narrow minded, and get back onto the subject. Stabs at personality are incredibly unproductive in a discussion like this. You guys really are just giving fuel and ideas for the next article. Be thankful for the traffic that we are sending you while it lasts. People are clicking for the novelty "to see if it works". It is rubbish traffic for you.

To Olney:
Well if my IDN examples are not generic enough for you, please give me some more "generic" ones.

[touchring]

If and only if what you say is true, then we'll need hear an explanation from olney.

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by blue

That a wildly general and sweeping statement that is entirely unfounded. I was surprised to read this. I know that I know Japanese people, culture and trends (AND LANGUAGE!) more than you do, and probably ever will - full stop. Take a look at who is calling who narrow minded, and get back onto the subject. Stabs at personality are incredibly unproductive in a discussion like this. You guys really are just giving fuel and ideas for the next article. Be thankful for the traffic that we are sending you while it lasts. People are clicking for the novelty "to see if it works". It is rubbish traffic for you.

Blue,
Wow, you really get wound up easy! Thanks for stopping by, and perhaps you'll be interested to stay for more than 1 post. Keep up the good work of providing us with free publicity, regardless of whether it's negative or positive. It serves to help people become more familiar with the topic, so thanks! The worst thing you could do is to just keep quiet, honestly. But then, you've already promised your readers part 2 , so I don't think you will renege :-)

So far, the "rubbish traffic" your site is sending me has generated a few dollars of revenue for me - your readers actually are clicking on the advertisements (which are in Japanese, btw)! I was laughingly thinking of asking you to list all of my japanese domains, but it's against the rules of parking. I am expecting a mail from my parking provider anytime now asking me why these domains suddently started getting traffic and clicks on the advertisements, and it will be an interesting story to explain to them. Interesting, because as a domain owner, I am not allowed to do SEO (drop backlinks around the net, etc) on parked domains, but you did it for me without my even asking! Perhaps it's about time to develop the hills-tribe domains now that people actually know about them... That will, of course, raise their price.

Thanks again, blue. I'm looking forward to part 2.

.

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by blue

I have read all of your posts here, and I am still not convinced. Can you give me some concrete examples of IDNs that have sold for tens of thousands of dollars I am seriously interested in the topic, and if you can prove me wrong, I would be more than glad to post your counter points in part 2 - but only if I can be confident that they are accurate. Your generalizations in the comments above are not very convincing so far.

Welcome to the forum. You opinions and viewpoints are certainly welcome.
I was the person who posted on your blog about IDN sales.

A list by date, amount and where sold for the past 1-2 years can be found at idntools.net. A few recent are below.

Most can be verified at dnjournal.com where they are also posted but I don't think there is a concise list as at idntools. When you see notations that they are sold at "Snapnames" that is a large company and most are thru their auctions. Most big Korean IDN sales happened at Snapnames.

A FEW RECENT IDN SALES- May - August 2007
dänemark-ferienhäuser.de $ 1,160 sedo 01-08-2007
acompañantes.com $3,200 snapnames 26-07-2007
schlüsselservice.de $ 1,024 sedo 01-08-2007
아마존.com $ 2,000 snapnames 18-07-2007
aşk.com $ 14,101 snapnames 18-07-2007
bäckerei.ch $ 1,440 sedo 13-07-2007
ernährung.de $ 33,992 private 18-07-2007
笔记本.cn $ 2,575 private 18-07-2007
援交.com $ 2,049 snapnames 29-06-2007
瑜珈.com $ 500 idnclub 04-07-2007
股指期货.com $2,549 afternic 27-06-2007
유기.com $2,000 idnforums 09-06-2007
뮤직.com $ 3,700 snapnames 23-05-2007
휴대폰.com $36,194 snapnames 20-05-2007
핸드폰.com $42,250 snapnames 20-05-2007
ferienhaus-österreich.de $1,600 sedo 05-07-2007
요리학원.com $5,000 snapnames 28-06-2007
meine-diät.de $1,360 sedo 05-07-2007

[Rubber Duck]

No Blue, you wrote a very interesting article of the history of computing.

The conclusions that you drew had very little to do with the argument you made.

Time for me try to convince people about IDN was about 2 years ago.

If you have an specific questions you need answering of course we will help, but I don't feel the need to try to convince anyone any more.

[jacksonm]

60k USD: Städtereisen (meaning city tours in german)

"Sedo also made news with the #2 sale, posting the largest IDN (International Domain Name) sale of the year with Städtereisen.de ("city travel" in German) going for a whopping €50,000 ($60,16! Sedo went on to pile up 10 of the 20 entries on the Big Board including half a dozen in the top ten."

http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/dom...es04_04_06.htm

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[thegenius1]

Originally Posted by blue

I have read all of your posts here, and I am still not convinced.

I'm Glad , as this is one less person to worry about in the Whois

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1090...the-forum.html (Time To Close The Forum !!!!!!!!!!)

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by blue

I know that I know Japanese people, culture and trends (AND LANGUAGE!) more than you do, and probably ever will - full stop. People are clicking for the novelty "to see if it works". It is rubbish traffic for you.

Do you REALLY think that Japanese people would rather type in ENGLISH urls, than Japanese?

There have been polls taken in Japan which say quite the opposite.

An audience that does not speak ANY English have little to no chance of remembering advertising or website address.
Spending money by advertisers to put English words that are unrecognizable to most viewers is waste of money don't you think?
I would say to have both the IDN and English urls would be the best of both worlds.

[thegenius1]

Originally Posted by bwhhisc

Do you REALLY think that Japanese people would rather type in ENGLISH urls, than Japanese?

There have been polls taken in Japan which say quite the opposite.

約半数のユーザーが日本語ドメイン名に魅力を感じる―ユーザーの認知と利用実態


日本語ドメイン名協会監修の書籍『日本語ドメイン名』が6月に発売された。日本語ドメイン名（国際化ドメイン名）策定までの活動を集約した書籍だ。

次期Internet Explorer 7（IE 7）からは、日本語を含む国際化ドメイン名を標準で利用できるようになるが、現状で一般ユーザーはどういった関心を抱いているのだろうか。本書には、日本語ドメイン名の認知度や利用についてのアンケートが多数掲載されており、調査によると全体の約半数が日本語ドメイン名でのウェブアクセスに魅力を感じているという。その一番の理由として、全体の約77％のユーザーが「覚えやすさ」、次いで「入力しやすい」と回答している。これは、日本語をそのまま利用できるので記憶しやすい、覚えやすいが故に利用しやすいともといえる。

IE 7は現在日本語版のベータテストも進行中で、次期Windows Vistaに標準搭載されるほか、現行OS向けにも提供される予定だ。IE 7の普及が鍵となり、今後の日本語ドメイン名のさらなる利用拡大につながると予測できる。



Approximately, the half user is fascinated by Japanese domain name, - the acknowledgment of the user and utilization actual condition



Book 'Japanese domain name' of Japanese domain name association supervision was sold in June. Japanese domain name (internationalization domain name) it is the book which gathers and summarizes the activity to decision.

Next term Internet Explorer 7 (IE 7) from, it reaches the point where the inter