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Old 10th August 2007, 12:25 PM
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Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

How can anyone reconcile these? Anyone?

China's Misguided 3G Mobile Strategy

.....With the largest mobile user base in the world, China is in a perfect position to be the mobile application laboratory for Asia, if not the world.

While many of China's mobile phone users are low-revenue customers content with basic services, there is an increasingly affluent, mobile and internet-addicted youth generation already pushing the current services to the limit. Mobile internet access could have a much broader impact in China than PC-based access has ever had.

China could exploit this potential by swallowing its pride, accepting a proven global 3G standard and ordering mobile operators to open their networks and support third-party IP-based services. That could spur real innovation and make this the golden age of mobile services in China.

But as long as the state-owned enterprise mentality and top-down technical policy making prevail, that golden age will remain elusive. Instead of being the innovation leader it should be, China will remain the world's largest mobile telephony backwater and 500 million mobile phone users will be left treading water....


http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...lobal+business


Japan, China, Korea to Jointly Develop 4G Phones
31st May , 2004

Japan, China and Korea have agreed to jointly develop communications and other technologies for fourth-generation cellular phones, which are expected to come into commercial use around 2010, sources close to the matter said on April 3.

The agreement is aimed at having the three countries adopt a unified communications protocol. Together, they account for about 30% of all cell phone users around the world, so the protocol could eventually become the global standard.....

http://www.4g.co.uk/PR2004/May2004/2023.htm

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Old 10th August 2007, 12:36 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
How can anyone reconcile these? Anyone?

China's Misguided 3G Mobile Strategy

.....With the largest mobile user base in the world, China is in a perfect position to be the mobile application laboratory for Asia, if not the world.

While many of China's mobile phone users are low-revenue customers content with basic services, there is an increasingly affluent, mobile and internet-addicted youth generation already pushing the current services to the limit. Mobile internet access could have a much broader impact in China than PC-based access has ever had.

China could exploit this potential by swallowing its pride, accepting a proven global 3G standard and ordering mobile operators to open their networks and support third-party IP-based services. That could spur real innovation and make this the golden age of mobile services in China.

But as long as the state-owned enterprise mentality and top-down technical policy making prevail, that golden age will remain elusive. Instead of being the innovation leader it should be, China will remain the world's largest mobile telephony backwater and 500 million mobile phone users will be left treading water....

China has been taken before the WTO before for (effectively) disallowing products which implement global standards (802.11 wireless networking standardized by IEEE) to be sold inside the country and trying to replace them with products which implement and support Chinese-only standards. I don't know if China is taking the lead from Microsoft or if Microsoft is taking the lead from China, but they both behave the same way wrt trying to push their own standards and ignoring international standards which are already in widespread use...

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Old 10th August 2007, 12:56 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
China has been taken before the WTO before for (effectively) disallowing products which implement global standards (802.11 wireless networking standardized by IEEE) to be sold inside the country and trying to replace them with products which implement and support Chinese-only standards. I don't know if China is taking the lead from Microsoft or if Microsoft is taking the lead from China, but they both behave the same way wrt trying to push their own standards and ignoring international standards which are already in widespread use...

.
This is a difficult area to legislate on. China is perfectly entitled to licence its own telecoms companies, and they are perfectly entitled to chose which technology they implement for their networks.

The point here, however, is that whilst Business Week is living in the dark ages, China is collaborating with its neighbours to leap frog US technology and establish new globals standards in the telecoms markets that will make 3G look like a clockwork soldier.

Both their and your arguments are undermined by the fact that Apple didn't implement 3G in the first offering of their iPhone, which by any standards is a prime example of built in obscelesence.
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Old 10th August 2007, 01:01 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Both their and your arguments are undermined by the fact that Apple didn't implement 3G in the first offering of their iPhone, which by any standards is a prime example of built in obscelesence.
Heh! 3G is not big in the US, it's mainly the rest of the world. Apple would have had to incur x number of dollars cost to put in a feature which couldn't be used by over 50% of the users (and that is conservative %). Besides, the iPhone will never be more than a small niche player. I wouldn't use it as any shining example of the market leading phone.

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Old 10th August 2007, 01:20 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
Heh! 3G is not big in the US, it's mainly the rest of the world. Apple would have had to incur x number of dollars cost to put in a feature which couldn't be used by over 50% of the users (and that is conservative %). Besides, the iPhone will never be more than a small niche player. I wouldn't use it as any shining example of the market leading phone.

.
So characteristically the US is trying to force standards on China to shift product when it hasn't really even adopted the troublesome technology itself.

To put this into some kind of perspective, within one product development cycle China, Korea and Japan should have mobile data access rates 50 times greater than the average landline broadband connection in the US today! WTF would they do with 3G?

Don't throw out your existing phones, they will be curiousities within 5 years.
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Old 10th August 2007, 02:09 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
So characteristically the US is trying to force standards on China to shift product when it hasn't really even adopted the troublesome technology itself.

To put this into some kind of perspective, within one product development cycle China, Korea and Japan should have mobile data access rates 50 times greater than the average landline broadband connection in the US today! WTF would they do with 3G?

Don't throw out your existing phones, they will be curiousities within 5 years.
It has adopted 3G, but you have to remember that mobile networks in general only cover about 10% of the land mass in the US. This is because the US is extremely underpopulated in terms of average people per square km/mile/whatever, compared to nearly any european or asian country. Operators in the US are always claiming that they provide 90% coverage - what they mean is that they provide 90% coverage over that 10% of land mass where there actually are mobile networks... There are still many places in the US where the only choice you have to get on the internet is to use a dial-up modem!!!

Speaking of fast data rate phones, I'd like to have one of those! I have HSDPA now, and it seems to get about 1MB/s... Still faster than most ADSL connections in the states.

RE old phones, I have an entire drawer full of curiosities dating back 12 years now. I don't know why I keep them... I've never had one that I used for more than 2 years.

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Old 10th August 2007, 02:29 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Yeah, especially hang on to those Motorola's. They will be as cherished as the BSA Bantum's anytime soon. Let's just hope that that the Chinese can be bothered to print the instruction booklets in English.
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Old 10th August 2007, 03:20 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
sold inside the country and trying to replace them with products which implement and support Chinese-only standards. I don't know if China is taking the lead from Microsoft or if Microsoft is taking the lead from China
Actually they are taking the lead from Japan, which has cell phones that don't work in any other country due to exclusive standards.
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Old 10th August 2007, 06:09 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

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Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
Actually they are taking the lead from Japan, which has cell phones that don't work in any other country due to exclusive standards.

Every country tries to do their own standards, but the difference with Japan is that China is the biggest mobile phone market, and they supply wireless infrastructure to like the other one third of the world like India, Africa, and many Asian countries. If it takes to lower their price, barter trade, or provide the technology free just to gain marketshare, they will do it.

The chinese companies are swarming all over the place. Even in Singapore, there are numerous new unknown companies with lots of money from unknown sources and shareholders buying over commercial buildings, land, and setting up all sorts of businesses.

And unlike japanese that come as employees of structured organizations, the chinese come at different levels, from big corp bosses, to the construction worker, to the working woman, to the restaurant owner, to students, to "bureaucrats" that also run their private businesses to suspicious businessmen funded with money from unspeakable sources, so on.

Well, swarming is not some unknown phenomenon here, even this, an american forum is being swamped.

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Old 10th August 2007, 06:15 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Well, swarming is not some unknown phenomenon here, even this, an american forum is being swamped.
Since when is this an "american" forum? There are just as many arabs and chinese here as there are americans...

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Old 10th August 2007, 06:49 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

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Originally Posted by jacksonm
Since when is this an "american" forum? There are just as many arabs and chinese here as there are americans...

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Olney's american isn't he?
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Old 10th August 2007, 07:06 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

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Originally Posted by touchring
Olney's american isn't he?
I guess he's lived in Japan for most of his adult life...

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Old 10th August 2007, 07:07 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

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Originally Posted by jacksonm
There are still many places in the US where the only choice you have to get on the internet is to use a dial-up modem!!!
Not true, In Alaska I surf faster than my cable modem did on a dish. high speed is everywhere.
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Old 10th August 2007, 07:08 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Maybe China wants to use a system that one of these can't be easily plugged into?

http://www.gsnmagazine.com/march_07/...dsmex_tap.html
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Old 10th August 2007, 07:10 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

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Originally Posted by xxbossmanxx
Not true, In Alaska I surf faster than my cable modem did on a dish. high speed is everywhere.
Yes, but it is all relative. Japan is typically up around 60 Megabits, and the French now have 100 Megabits in Paris. The average broadband speed in US is 2 Megabits. If you count dial-up, well you get my point!
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Old 10th August 2007, 07:21 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

The US has led the way with most of todays modern systems. We started out with an infrastructure that straps us tight to the 20th century. Alot of EU countries simply waited till it was figured out then implemented their technology on newer infrastructures.

Although many countries may have better systems it is partly due to our hard work, trial and error and cash spent.

It isnt easy changing 10 millon miles of cabling.

I just think it's funny how people talk about how much better setup these places are than the usa when its a blatant rip off. Half the world is running cracked windows thanx to the usa.
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Old 10th August 2007, 07:23 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

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Originally Posted by xxbossmanxx
Not true, In Alaska I surf faster than my cable modem did on a dish. high speed is everywhere.
You throw Alaska out there like it's the wilderness, but I bet you're in or near a big city. 99% of Alaska's area doesn't have high speed net, I guarantee you. Try Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, etc...

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Old 10th August 2007, 07:25 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Yes Alaska is the wilderness. It's bigger than all of those states you listed combined. Since when does a sat dish need to be near a big city.

Shows here that 100% of alaska all the way into the arctic circle has high speed. You still stuck in 1997?

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4387839&EDATE=

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Old 10th August 2007, 08:28 PM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbossmanxx
Yes Alaska is the wilderness. It's bigger than all of those states you listed combined. Since when does a sat dish need to be near a big city.

Shows here that 100% of alaska all the way into the arctic circle has high speed. You still stuck in 1997?
OK, it says they got 200k subscribers, which I presume is mostly boats. You are the first person I have ever heard of who actually has satellite internet although it's been around for over a decade... I presume most of it is boats. You still need a satellite modem to send data out (very slow, high latency).

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Old 11th August 2007, 04:43 AM
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Re: Businessweek talking bollocks on China Telecoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbossmanxx
The US has led the way with most of todays modern systems. We started out with an infrastructure that straps us tight to the 20th century. Alot of EU countries simply waited till it was figured out then implemented their technology on newer infrastructures.

Although many countries may have better systems it is partly due to our hard work, trial and error and cash spent.

It isnt easy changing 10 millon miles of cabling.

I just think it's funny how people talk about how much better setup these places are than the usa when its a blatant rip off. Half the world is running cracked windows thanx to the usa.
We may have been the first and we may have led the space (think Netscape), it doesn't make it any less true that US broadband is one of the slowest among developed countries.
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