IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > IDN Discussions > General Discussion

General Discussion Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 01:46 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
abram lincohen is an unknown quantity at this point
How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

I recently contacted few US companies and offered thems some way in cooperation (I have ascii domain which to the letter describes what they sell) (it's like loans.com in a sense) It's in spanish, though, but 40 million spanish speaking and rising... The response was different-sometimes hilarious. while my site (poorely developed is on top of google search results) some of these companies which were on the second and 3-5 positions on the first page sought they can have improved their rankings by doing some seo. result-one rolled back to 50-some position-that was really funny, since they were #2 in google before. I also mentioned idns (which I have a lot for their line of business)-blank stares for most part. Sure, they all asked me if I want to sell ascii -but I don't, since it's not english and it's a fast developing market.
I think the problem is that all these places are full of old fashioned folks and non-decision makers who do not really follow current trends and after all, don't even care, since it's not their business.
Any thoughts how we can promote idns better? As I say, I have idns which get millions of searches a month in overture and others which gets 500 uniquies a day.

Last edited by abram lincohen; 26th August 2007 at 02:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 01:54 PM
mulligan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,253
iTrader: (78)
Rep Power: 2032
mulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enough
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abram lincohen
As I say, I have idns which get millions of searches a month in overture and others which gets 500 uniquies a day.
Many here have these kinds of domains
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:01 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
abram lincohen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan
Many here have these kinds of domains
I don't doubt it. I was referring to ascii and idn at the same time when offering to a US company doing business in Latin America; My main offer was ascii, but I mentioned idns as well. I was kind of surprised of total ignorance , at least from the part of people I spoke with-which were not some clerks, trust me-like Directors of international development or Directors of International marketing for the large corps-that is staggering.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:02 PM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 987
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

There is very little that speculators can do to to speed up the uptake of IDNs, try as they may. Speculators are hated (have been for centuries), and people are automatically viewed with suspicion when approaching someone to sell something. When the time comes that everybody knows that they need local language domain names, they will come knocking on your door if you have anything of value.

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:09 PM
mulligan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,253
iTrader: (78)
Rep Power: 2032
mulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enough
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

The thing is that the vast majority of the people in the entire world don't know what a domain name is, never mind what an IDN is ... I would imagine CEO's, directors and the like have little to no knowledge of domains or that they even exist so to tout IDN's to these people is pointless.

When their webmaste notices the site slipping in the rankings and losing out to websites with funny looking letters and squiggles he will kick it upstairs where it will sit for a few years until someone notices that the bottom line has shrunk, business is bad .. then and only then will they take notice.

That or you come across a forward thinking, open-minded company owner / boss
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:09 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
abram lincohen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
There is very little that speculators can do to to speed up the uptake of IDNs, try as they may. Speculators are hated (have been for centuries), and people are automatically viewed with suspicion when approaching someone to sell something. When the time comes that everybody knows that they need local language domain names, they will come knocking on your door if you have anything of value.

.
I don't like to think of myself as speculator. We need to fight this label. Are we speculators or entrepreneurs? Speculator has a negative connotation to it. I don't register idns to speculate. It's like calling shop owner who buys an inventory a speculator-he's not. I' in fact never sold an idn-all mines are for development.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:19 PM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 987
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abram lincohen
I don't like to think of myself as speculator. We need to fight this label. Are we speculators or entrepreneurs? Speculator has a negative connotation to it. I don't register idns to speculate. It's like calling shop owner who buys an inventory a speculator-he's not. I' in fact never sold an idn-all mines are for development.
Let's get one thing straight:

Domains don't need middlemen to sell; they can be bought one at a time by end-users. Manufactured products need middlemen. Factories don't sell individual products; they sell truckloads at a time. Shops provide a useful service by aggregating dissimilar products into one place for convenient purchase.

If you are contacting companies to sell or rent them domains, or you have bought domains for the sole purpose of reselling them, then you have been speculating. If you only develop sites on your own in an attempt to generate revenue streams, then you have been investing (it's not a speculation that they will receive traffic, because we already see that they do).

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:26 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
abram lincohen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
Let's get one thing straight:



.
Somehow you don't call stock brokers "speculators". Yet, what else are they? Somehow you don't call donald trump speculator, yet who is he?
We need to get to the definition level here. If you accept this label, that's how you will be labeled all your life.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:45 PM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 987
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abram lincohen
Somehow you don't call stock brokers "speculators". Yet, what else are they? Somehow you don't call donald trump speculator, yet who is he?
We need to get to the definition level here. If you accept this label, that's how you will be labeled all your life.

There are stock speculators and there are stock investors. There are property speculators and there are property investors. Which one a person is depends on what I explained above.

This is not really so difficult to see.

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:52 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
abram lincohen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

You can call "stock investors" as stock speculators. I do respect you opinion. But as a linguist by trade, I can see that all these niceties are just desingned to fool people hiding the real meaning of the words. How is that when you invest in stock you don't speculate in it? At least don't fool yourself-that will be a beguinning of a healing process.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 02:54 PM
mulligan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,253
iTrader: (78)
Rep Power: 2032
mulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enough
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

How about investulator © ...
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 03:28 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 406
iTrader: (12)
Rep Power: 591
websjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished road
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

regarding the uptake of idns im heartened to see sub domains and file names starting to be written in scripts other than english

まとめローン.jpn.org

おまとめローン.affima.com

one step closer!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 04:14 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4513
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Doesn't make any sense. The ASCII equivalent of my domains would cost millions, often each, so I could afford to acquire those, and I certainly don't want the IDN equivalent of the ASCII junk that I can afford!

Quote:
Originally Posted by abram lincohen
I don't doubt it. I was referring to ascii and idn at the same time when offering to a US company doing business in Latin America; My main offer was ascii, but I mentioned idns as well. I was kind of surprised of total ignorance , at least from the part of people I spoke with-which were not some clerks, trust me-like Directors of international development or Directors of International marketing for the large corps-that is staggering.
Subdomaining is just another way of not getting it in my book. How you can come this close and still not understand beats the hell out of me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by websjapan
regarding the uptake of idns im heartened to see sub domains and file names starting to be written in scripts other than english

まとめローン.jpn.org

おまとめローン.affima.com

one step closer!
__________________
All offers to sell are void.

Last edited by Rubber Duck; 26th August 2007 at 04:16 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 04:22 PM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 987
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abram lincohen
You can call "stock investors" as stock speculators. I do respect you opinion. But as a linguist by trade, I can see that all these niceties are just desingned to fool people hiding the real meaning of the words. How is that when you invest in stock you don't speculate in it? At least don't fool yourself-that will be a beguinning of a healing process.

I have some domains which I registered purely with speculative reasoning in mind - I never plan to develop them, they are not TMs, and they would not be worth much at all as a "traffic" site, but they are nonetheless extremely valuable to certain people (at least I speculate so). These type of domains comprise about 10% of my portfolio. Will people hate me for taking them first, doing nothing to improve them, and selling them at insane profits? Of course. Ask me if I care.

I have many domains which I either registered or bought with the intent to develop sooner or later, in order to turn them into revenue streams. These are investments which I hope to convert into little employees. I don't want to sell them. They may even lose money at first with development costs, etc, but they are long term investments.

The difference between "stock investors" and "stock speculators" is that investors are in for the long term, and speculators are in for the short term constantly buying and selling trying to make profits based on every rise and fall of the indexes. Commodity and day traders are 100% speculators.

Regardless of whether you like the term speculator applied to your activities or not, if you speculate then you are a speculator. A good deal of people despise speculators, but that doesn't stop me from doing it. They can call me a speculator if they like. If it bothers you to be called that, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Subdomaining is just another way of not getting it in my book. How you can come this close and still not understand beats the hell out of me!
Subdomains are fine, IMO. For example:

finance.google.com
images.google.com
groups.google.com
mail.google.com

etc.


.
__________________
.

Last edited by jacksonm; 26th August 2007 at 04:26 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 04:34 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
abram lincohen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
I have some domains which I registered purely with speculative reasoning in mind - I never plan to develop them, they are not TMs, and they would not be worth much at all as a "traffic" site, but they are nonetheless extremely valuable to certain people (at least I speculate so). These type of domains comprise about 10% of my portfolio. Will people hate me for taking them first, doing nothing to improve them, and selling them at insane profits? Of course. Ask me if I care.

I have many domains which I either registered or bought with the intent to develop sooner or later, in order to turn them into revenue streams. These are investments which I hope to convert into little employees. I don't want to sell them. They may even lose money at first with development costs, etc, but they are long term investments.

The difference between "stock investors" and "stock speculators" is that investors are in for the long term, and speculators are in for the short term constantly buying and selling trying to make profits based on every rise and fall of the indexes. Commodity and day traders are 100% speculators.

Regardless of whether you like the term speculator applied to your activities or not, if you speculate then you are a speculator. A good deal of people despise speculators, but that doesn't stop me from doing it. They can call me a speculator if they like. If it bothers you to be called that, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it.



.
Jackson, I am with you on this- I don't care how people call me. however, for the sake of truth, you certaingly would agree that the whole stork market game is a game of speculation and fraud-and those who versed in it, profit, but the common investor if you look at historical results (having inflation in mind) , always loses.
So, it's up to you - continue to invest in stocks or derivatives (which is a rigged game) or search for alternative investments, which I'd be glad to share some ideas with you if you PM me.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 04:35 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4513
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

What I really meant was using Unicode Subdomains on an ASCII Domain. If you understand the SEO advantage in that, why not try to buy the name before it gets too expensive!

Besides Google doesn't have to worry about the Algos kicking it into touch!
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 04:43 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
abram lincohen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
What I really meant was using Unicode Subdomains on an ASCII Domain. If you understand the SEO advantage in that, why not try to buy the name before it gets too expensive!

Besides Google doesn't have to worry about the Algos kicking it into touch!
Sorry for my ignorance here, but could you elaborate?

Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 05:20 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4513
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abram lincohen
Sorry for my ignorance here, but could you elaborate?

Thanks in advance
Well Google controls what goes into the Search Engine so they don't need to worry about their own ranking and they certainly won't get good ranking at Yahoo whatever strategy they adopt.

On the IDN, they are a stealth missile as far as SEO goes. The reason for this is not that they are treated differently. It is because they are treated the same. Nearly all search in Asia is done in Unicode characters, so only IDN stand a chance of matching search terms. Exact matching yields the most ranking. Unicode in the sub-domain will help, and these idiots obviously recognise that. The point is that the boost from the sub-domain will be small compared to that from the IDN. The conclusion is that they have understood the principle of SEO but still failed to take major advantage of it. In my book that makes them STUPID.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 05:43 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
abram lincohen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Well Google controls what goes into the Search Engine so they don't need to worry about their own ranking and they certainly won't get good ranking at Yahoo whatever strategy they adopt.

On the IDN, they are a stealth missile as far as SEO goes. The reason for this is not that they are treated differently. It is because they are treated the same. Nearly all search in Asia is done in Unicode characters, so only IDN stand a chance of matching search terms. Exact matching yields the most ranking. Unicode in the sub-domain will help, and these idiots obviously recognise that. The point is that the boost from the sub-domain will be small compared to that from the IDN. The conclusion is that they have understood the principle of SEO but still failed to take major advantage of it. In my book that makes them STUPID.
They are busy with US market, which is all about hype and scam (mostly) at this time. Old dood market making out of nothing but with a view to screw some investors out of good money for crap domains. and most of these domains which sell for enormous ammounts are pure crap. When they finish with desperate US investors, they will go to idns.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2007, 08:05 PM
rhys's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,043
iTrader: (25)
Rep Power: 708
rhys is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: How stupid.. (or may be just antiquated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abram lincohen
Somehow you don't call stock brokers "speculators". Yet, what else are they? Somehow you don't call donald trump speculator, yet who is he?
We need to get to the definition level here. If you accept this label, that's how you will be labeled all your life.
Well no one likes stock brokers either. Personally, I'm happy if people call me speculator, entrepreneur, investor, domainer. Those are all perfectly respectable things to be. Just don't call me a cyber-squatter. That's what really pisses me off.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:13 PM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54