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dusty 24th September 2007 03:33 PM

This sucks. .cn
 
"Hello,

We have removed the following domain names from your Domainsite.com account:

xn--48Sp91B1l4A.cn

The reason that we removed these domains is because we were contacted by CNNIC because these domains violate their registration agreement. If you would like more information regarding the registration of .cn names and the restrictions associated with them, you may view their website which contains their terms of registration. We have issued a full refund for these domains to your paypal account. If you have any further questions or concerns, feel free to let us know.

Thank you
xxxxx
Domainsite.com"

The domain is 法学院 meaning: School of Law

Rubber Duck 24th September 2007 03:49 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
This is precisely the reason that most domainers and indeed large companies are going to be sticking to dot com.

If you had bought this from another speculator for a large sum of cash, you would have little or no recourse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusty
"Hello,

We have removed the following domain names from your Domainsite.com account:

xn--48Sp91B1l4A.cn

The reason that we removed these domains is because we were contacted by CNNIC because these domains violate their registration agreement. If you would like more information regarding the registration of .cn names and the restrictions associated with them, you may view their website which contains their terms of registration. We have issued a full refund for these domains to your paypal account. If you have any further questions or concerns, feel free to let us know.

Thank you
xxxxx
Domainsite.com"

The domain is 法学院 meaning: School of Law


Prodigy 24th September 2007 03:55 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
This is precisely the reason that most domainers and indeed large companies are going to be sticking to dot com.

Yes, because large companies and savvy domainers have a penchant for politically charged and sensitive domains.

touchring 24th September 2007 04:00 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Sorry to hear about this, but this is a risk one must take when investing anything from China. Not to mention a domain, even if you buy a house, it might be taken if you are unlucky.

Btw, weird that 法学.cn, Law Study, is allowed?

Asiaplay 24th September 2007 05:19 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by touchring
Sorry to hear about this, but this is a risk one must take when investing anything from China. Not to mention a domain, even if you buy a house, it might be taken if you are unlucky.

Btw, weird that 法学.cn, Law Study, is allowed?

As I understand it is the "院" part which has got dusty into trouble (institute), University names etc. are not allowed to be privately owned - and are off limits except for Government approved & licensed educational bodies, as I understand).

What will be interesting later is to see if the .com version makes it through the firewall or even onto the listings in China - it might not!
I would not be surprised if the Search Engines agree to not include .com IDNs in search results, where the .cn version is banned (so don't count on the idea that having the .com, .net or .biz etc., will definitely be helpful as an alternative solution to not being able to hold banned .cn IDNs or in any other cases World-wide where this anomaly exists between gTLD and other ccTLDs IDNs out there).
Yes - I know it is hard for the gTLD to even check the language terms in half the languages they accept and this is partly why they have taken this approach to accept anything - but be careful (they might not work in countries later)... it might be the .com one traded at XX,XXX that gets this problem later (possibly even the Country-IDN.com ones which will be up for auction soon ;) )

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: however I agree dusty - it is tough to loose this name... but avoid institute names etc. and you should be fine ;)

touchring 24th September 2007 05:51 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asiaplay
As I understand it is the "院" part which has got dusty into trouble (institute), University names etc. are not allowed to be privately owned - and are off limits except for Government approved & licensed educational bodies, as I understand).



Thks, i thought it was the law part that doesn't sounds right. There are tens of thousands of private schools in China. And if it was blocked, why not prevent registration in the first place? I believe that's the case for many blocked names.

Rubber Duck 24th September 2007 06:07 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asiaplay
As I understand it is the "院" part which has got dusty into trouble (institute), University names etc. are not allowed to be privately owned - and are off limits except for Government approved & licensed educational bodies, as I understand).

What will be interesting later is to see if the .com version makes it through the firewall or even onto the listings in China - it might not!
I would not be surprised if the Search Engines agree to not include .com IDNs in search results, where the .cn version is banned (so don't count on the idea that having the .com, .net or .biz etc., will definitely be helpful as an alternative solution to not being able to hold banned .cn IDNs or in any other cases World-wide where this anomaly exists between gTLD and other ccTLDs IDNs out there).
Yes - I know it is hard for the gTLD to even check the language terms in half the languages they accept and this is partly why they have taken this approach to accept anything - but be careful (they might not work in countries later)... it might be the .com one traded at XX,XXX that gets this problem later (possibly even the Country-IDN.com ones which will be up for auction soon ;) )

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: however I agree dusty - it is tough to loose this name... but avoid institute names etc. and you should be fine ;)

It is possible there will be some short-term problems with dot Coms of the nature you describe, but you won't actually lose the name.

China will undoubtedly become more liberal in its approach to a number of issues as time progresses, so even if they are not initially get getting SERP, all is not lost.

mulligan 24th September 2007 06:55 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
CNNIC contacted me a while ago asking me to 'hand over control of xxxx.net to CNNIC' (Yep, a .net) that I have. (It's a 'sensitive' domain which shall remain unidentified)
I replied that it wasn't avaiable for being 'controlled by anyone but myself'

Never heard back .. anyone else have this happen?

Asiaplay 24th September 2007 08:04 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
It is possible there will be some short-term problems with dot Coms of the nature you describe, but you won't actually lose the name.

China will undoubtedly become more liberal in its approach to a number of issues as time progresses, so even if they are not initially get getting SERP, all is not lost.

True - you will get to keep the domain (and have to hope lots of Chinese immigrate and don't want to learn the language where they move to ;) )...
But who knows - they might allow them through... was partly for debate (to be honest I hope they do... or if stopped it is after IDNs have an auction platform and they are not ruined by this approach).

Mulligan - very interesting - think was real?

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: hope is unlisted one - ya know Singapore just loves to assist China lol... ;)

touchring 24th September 2007 08:36 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asiaplay
Mulligan - very interesting - think was real?

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: hope is unlisted one - ya know Singapore just loves to assist China lol... ;)



Yeh, i was thinking about that as well. Last time a case when a chinese little girl died, the suspect was given the death penalty even though there was insufficient evidence. On the other hand, michael fay got the whip.

I maybe wrong, but I think that one might probably be safer from the Chinese authorities in Hong Kong than in Singapore! :o

Some years ago, a group of falungong activists protested somewhere holding up placards and were arrested - the charge - illegal assembly - in Singapore it is illegal to have a public assembly of more than 4 persons. WTF? So after that, they protested in pairs.

Giant 24th September 2007 10:32 PM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asiaplay
As I understand it is the "院" part which has got dusty into trouble (institute), University names etc. are not allowed to be privately owned - and are off limits except for Government approved & licensed educational bodies, as I understand).

What will be interesting later is to see if the .com version makes it through the firewall or even onto the listings in China - it might not!
I would not be surprised if the Search Engines agree to not include .com IDNs in search results, where the .cn version is banned (so don't count on the idea that having the .com, .net or .biz etc., will definitely be helpful as an alternative solution to not being able to hold banned .cn IDNs or in any other cases World-wide where this anomaly exists between gTLD and other ccTLDs IDNs out there).
Yes - I know it is hard for the gTLD to even check the language terms in half the languages they accept and this is partly why they have taken this approach to accept anything - but be careful (they might not work in countries later)... it might be the .com one traded at XX,XXX that gets this problem later (possibly even the Country-IDN.com ones which will be up for auction soon ;) )

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: however I agree dusty - it is tough to loose this name... but avoid institute names etc. and you should be fine ;)

CNNIC is not China!

CNNIC is like the limited company that takes care of the Dot HK domains, a technical organization or company, no more no less. CNNIC is doing their job when reserving certain names that could be used by local governments or institutes (how they do it is debatable), but the Chinese people's right to use the Dot Com or Dot Net domains is guaranteered by China's Constitution (NOT CNNIC).

It's completely logical for CNNIC to reserve 法学院.cn, and it's also completely legal for Harvard University to use 法学院.com to offer education to the Chinese students. There are many foreign universities offering education in China already.

JPNIC may have reserved [Tokyo].jp, but it doesn't mean [Tokyo].com is not allowed to use in Japan. VeriSign also reserved some single letter Dot Coms.

CNNIC could have reserved the ASCII domain "beijing.cn", does it mean China would block "beijing.com" in the future?

You should read Chinese laws before you suggest China would block 法学院.com.



Quote:

Originally Posted by mulligan
CNNIC contacted me a while ago asking me to 'hand over control of xxxx.net to CNNIC' (Yep, a .net) that I have. (It's a 'sensitive' domain which shall remain unidentified)
I replied that it wasn't avaiable for being 'controlled by anyone but myself'

Never heard back .. anyone else have this happen?

There were thousands of fake emails and phone calls pretending to be from CNNIC. Just ignore them.

Olney 25th September 2007 02:14 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
& after being in this market for a while you guys have to realize the reserved dot jps doesn't mean no company will not be able to use them. It might mean right now, no one has pitched for it correctly.
A lot of the reserved commercial terms are not for government use.

mulligan 25th September 2007 02:46 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant
There were thousands of fake emails and phone calls pretending to be from CNNIC. Just ignore them.

This actually was from them

Asiaplay 25th September 2007 06:37 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant
CNNIC is not China!

CNNIC is like the limited company that takes care of the Dot HK domains, a technical organization or company, no more no less. CNNIC is doing their job when reserving certain names that could be used by local governments or institutes (how they do it is debatable), but the Chinese people's right to use the Dot Com or Dot Net domains is guaranteered by China's Constitution (NOT CNNIC).

It's completely logical for CNNIC to reserve 法学院.cn, and it's also completely legal for Harvard University to use 法学院.com to offer education to the Chinese students. There are many foreign universities offering education in China already.

JPNIC may have reserved [Tokyo].jp, but it doesn't mean [Tokyo].com is not allowed to use in Japan. VeriSign also reserved some single letter Dot Coms.

CNNIC could have reserved the ASCII domain "beijing.cn", does it mean China would block "beijing.com" in the future?

You should read Chinese laws before you suggest China would block 法学院.com.

I was actually suggesting they may put political pressure on Search Engines to not allow block lists through (and agree 法学院 would be low on that list - I was referring more to other banned names, as a group, as a discussion point).

Show me the Chinese law that will stop them or make this pressure illegal, if the Government chooses that people should not be allowed to use those names in China?...

Yes, we all know CNNIC is a company (but don't tell me it is not Government linked and does not have to answer to Government influence - do not think or even try to suggest that CNNIC blindly came up with a banned list by themselves - we all know these things are Government monitored... just as they are in other countries like Korea etc.).
This is a discussion point I was raising for debate... and we all do not know if that will happen (but it could - so to blindly complain if it does will not help!).

Cheers - Asiaplay

Rubber Duck 25th September 2007 07:28 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant
VeriSign also reserved some single letter Dot Coms.

Actually they didn't.

IANA reserved the single letters, so they actually belong to ICANN.

These will be auctioned off in the near future. Expect 8 figure price tags for the dot coms. :)

zfreud 27th September 2007 02:47 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Interesting. It looks like some house cleaning (or insider dealing) is clearly going on in the .cn name space. I just had FIVE .cn domains taken back from me today (different registrar). They all had "旅游局" (travel agent) in the domain name. Is that an "official" word in China?!

These were domains registered months ago and they are way past the 30 day limit CNNIC gives for denying registrations. Not that CNNIC cares but what business person in their right mind is going to build a company around a domain name that can be arbitrarily taken by CNNIC (read Govt) at any time?

This is GREAT news for IDN.com holders.

Say what you will about ICANN and .com but at least the rule of law applies to .com domain ownership.

Bottom line: be VERY careful with .cn domains or you're next to receive the following:

"Dear Sir,

We hereby inform you that we have to delete your following domains up on a
request of the .cn registry. The .cn registry found the domains to violate their terms of registration."

touchring 27th September 2007 03:10 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
旅游局 - sort of tourism board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zfreud
The .cn registry found the domains to violate their terms of registration.

In that case, adult and gambling names may also be cancelled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zfreud
Not that CNNIC cares but what business person in their right mind is going to build a company around a domain name that can be arbitrarily taken by CNNIC (read Govt) at any time?

Why do you thiink major websites in china use .com?

Not saying .cn is not reliable, but one must know that violation will mean possible cancellation without advance notice - there's no need for WIPO or URDP.

markits 27th September 2007 03:19 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zfreud
Interesting. It looks like some house cleaning (or insider dealing) is clearly going on in the .cn name space. I just had FIVE .cn domains taken back from me today (different registrar). They all had "旅游局" (travel agent) in the domain name. Is that an "official" word in China?!

These were domains registered months ago and they are way past the 30 day limit CNNIC gives for denying registrations. Not that CNNIC cares but what business person in their right mind is going to build a company around a domain name that can be arbitrarily taken by CNNIC (read Govt) at any time?

That is disgusting.
If CNNIC wants a legally registered domain, they really should buy it back from the registrant, at the price nominated by the registrant.

mulligan 27th September 2007 04:09 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by touchring
Not saying .cn is not reliable, but one must know that violation will mean possible cancellation without advance notice - there's no need for WIPO or URDP.

Of course it's unreliable, they are taking domains away from people on what seems to be an arbitary basis.

Where is the list of rules and regulations that are being 'violated'?

Because some asshole cadre decides he wants to build a site with your domain they take it away .. simple as that.

So .cn domains being sold based on them being past the mythical 30 day window whereby they are not allowed to be taken away is bullshit in that case.
Some people are in for a surprise down the road.

Was there ever really such a thing? Simple answer is .... no.

I for one will be referring potential buyers of .cn to this thread so they understand what they are 'buying'

Asiaplay 27th September 2007 04:31 AM

Re: This sucks. .cn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zfreud
Interesting. It looks like some house cleaning (or insider dealing) is clearly going on in the .cn name space. I just had FIVE .cn domains taken back from me today (different registrar). They all had "旅游局" (travel agent) in the domain name. Is that an "official" word in China?!

This "旅游局" one is semi debatable, I think... however if you search in China (google.cn) you will find it only pulls up Government websites (one exception only).
So in a sense, yes - it is definitely "Tourism Board" (department) used by the China Government as Touchring suggests.

I agree this makes it hard when choosing .cn IDNs - namely to know for sure, what will later be considered a Government reserved term is difficult to know 100%.

I understand there is an arbitration process for CNNIC (which is run in Hong Kong from memory) - is there any ability to take these types of things to arbitration?
Any thoughts from others?

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: are your other names similar which have been cancelled?


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