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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15th October 2007, 05:44 PM
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IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

I think a possible (and perhaps a likely) scenario for IDN.com would be to eliminate or phase out IDN.com and provide the IDN.IDN versions to the appropriate IDN.com owners.

Since IDN.coms were introduced as "testbed" domains, and I've never seen any official statements that IDN.com would be "forever," it seems that this would be a logical progression.

For one reason, having equivalent IDN.com with IDN.IDN domains may be confusing to many, whether one is an alias/DNAME of the other, or not. Furthermore, the term "IDN" would be clear, referring only to "full" IDNs (IDN.IDN), instead of "mixed" whatever-language plus English ".com."

Phasing out IDN.com would also eliminate the problems with identical names in Chinese and Japanese. The language label that was (or should have been) selected at the time of registration may be used to properly assign the proper language for such names. (If a language label was never set or set to an invalid language maybe you will get the option to set it later.)

As an example, the current "water.com" in Japanese and Chinese would be 水.com. Instead of the confusion and conflict of the .com, the appropriate language would be applied to the existing registration, and provide the IDN.IDN to the owner.

If the current 水.com is tagged as Japanese, then the owner would be given the domain 水.会社 (assuming .会社 will be the Japanese equivalent TLD). In addition to clearing up that conflict, the Chinese version (水.公司) would then become available as a new registration - previously blocked by (the Japanese-tagged) 水.com.

This is only my guess as to what may happen next year, and I think this is the most logical solution.
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Old 15th October 2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

I doubt they would eliminate .com/.net... and just make it aliased instead.
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Old 15th October 2007, 05:47 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

this will in fact be the worst case scenario for chinese and japanese. the best case is they do not dname.

水.公司 already works in china and is not popular.
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Old 15th October 2007, 05:53 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Idnowner,

Logical it may or may not be. Novel it most certainly is. I haven't seen this put forward by anyone else.
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Old 15th October 2007, 06:16 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Idnowner,

Logical it may or may not be. Novel it most certainly is. I haven't seen this put forward by anyone else.
I don't think this possible solution is "novel" in any way. I think it is a sensible solution, only complicated by not having introduced IDN.IDN in the first place.

I can't speak for Japanese (or any other non-English-language) speaking people, but it just seems they'd be more comfortable with IDN.IDN, and it would seem to me that this might have been the intention from the beginning (1997 or earlier).

Yes, you likely haven't seen this put forward by anyone else. Nor have I, so if this turns out to be the final solution, remember where you heard it first! Otherwise, please disregard this posting :-)
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Old 15th October 2007, 06:19 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Actually, it is totally flawed in as much as there is no language tag.

Domains are tagged only for a checking algo that runs during registration. No permanent record is kept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnowner
I don't think this possible solution is "novel" in any way. I think it is a sensible solution, only complicated by not having introduced IDN.IDN in the first place.

I can't speak for Japanese (or any other non-English-language) people, but it just seems they'd be more comfortable with IDN.IDN, and it would seem to me that this might have been the intention from the beginning (1997 or earlier).

Yes, you likely haven't seen this put forward by anyone else. Nor have I, so if this turns out to be the final solution, remember where you heard it first! Otherwise, please disregard this posting :-)
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Old 15th October 2007, 06:24 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Actually, it is totally flawed in as much as there is no language tag.

Domains are tagged only for a checking algo that runs during registration. No permanent record is kept.
Perhaps more of a reason to only allow IDN.IDN, without any mixed characters in the top two levels.
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Old 15th October 2007, 06:26 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnowner
Perhaps more of a reason to only allow IDN.IDN, without any mixed characters in the top two levels.
The problem is that would only work if language and script were synonymous. They are not.
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Old 15th October 2007, 06:35 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
The problem is that would only work if language and script were synonymous. They are not.
I don't know enough to really know which solution would result in the least amount of problems. It seems, no matter which way they go, they won't be able to please everyone. If DNAME is the solution, and becomes permanent, that would likely be the best scenario for me. I just wish we could find out now so we can put an end to all the worry, speculation and confusion.
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Old 15th October 2007, 06:38 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnowner
I don't know enough to really know which solution would result in the least amount of problems. It seems, no matter which way they go, they won't be able to please everyone. If DNAME is the solution, and becomes permanent, that would likely be the best scenario for me. I just wish we could find out now so we can put an end to all the worry, speculation and confusion.
I think you worry too much.

Dot Com is the global brand they will all be seeking. They will find in whatever form it manifests itself, because the reinforcement by usage and advertising will be massive compared to any me too alternatives. It basically just does not matter. Chinese can handle dot com without any worries. It is only a real problem for RTL languages.
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Old 15th October 2007, 06:43 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Nothing to worry about we are sitting on gold no matter how the ball falls
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Old 15th October 2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
I think you worry too much.
I think so too.

China has chosen their best solution: .cn and .中国 as one domain. This is a done deal, no one can change it, and no one would.

Dot Com just needs to choose its own alias to help it look complete (IDN.IDN), any alias will do, because:

IDN.com will be king, not its alias.
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Last edited by Giant; 15th October 2007 at 11:17 PM..
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Old 15th October 2007, 11:36 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
I think so too.

China has chosen their best solution: .cn and .中国 as one domain. This is a done deal, no one can change it, and no one would.

Dot Com just needs to choose its own alias, any one will do, because:

IDN.com will be king, not its alias.
Yes, I worry. In fact, my middle name is Worrywart.

I agree, "dot-com" is king, but when it comes to Japanese IDNs, I think I'd like to hear from native Japanese speakers, who live in Japan, what they'd prefer - 水.会社 or 水.com.

Also, with all of those early test-bed disclaimers, about any IDN.com domain can be cancelled, and no guarantee that these domains will ever work, etc., it would be nice if they'd just lay out the plan as it will be.

I am about 70% sure IDN.com will be the real deal, but until I get the official word, I'm going to continue to worry.
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Old 15th October 2007, 11:51 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnowner

I am about 70% sure IDN.com will be the real deal, but until I get the official word, I'm going to continue to worry.
Well thats just unnecessary stress , you may end up greying fast

But .com in japanese is .コム
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Last edited by thegenius1; 15th October 2007 at 11:58 PM..
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Old 15th October 2007, 11:58 PM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnowner
Also, with all of those early test-bed disclaimers, about any IDN.com domain can be cancelled, and no guarantee that these domains will ever work, etc., it would be nice if they'd just lay out the plan as it will be.
"test-bed" is just a term VeriSign used to protect them legally as a common practice any commercial company would use. Our registered IDN.com domains are in VeriSign's real system like any other ASCII.com domains. "test-bed" is already a thing of the past without formally declaring it.
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Old 16th October 2007, 12:34 AM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegenius1
Well thats just unnecessary stress , you may end up greying fast

But .com in japanese is .コム
.コム may be the phonetic (Katakana) version of ".com" but .会社 (Kanji, dot-Kaisha/dot-company) is, from what I understand, going to be the choice as the Japanese .com equivalent.
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Old 16th October 2007, 12:40 AM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnowner
.コム may be the phonetic (Katakana) version of ".com" but .会社 (Kanji, dot-Kaisha/dot-company) is, from what I understand, going to be the choice as the Japanese .com equivalent.

Well that will be a really dumb choice if thats what they do , just pop the katakan version in overture

799450 カリビアン コム
259046 価格 コム (DOT COM winner) 1,189,049 価格 com
75032 カカク コム
27578 コム デ ギャルソン
18400 アサヒ コム
11591 イッツ コム
7427 カリビアン コム ガール
7384 一休 コム
7192 カリビアン コム プレミアム
6893 デニム ダンガリー 160 - コム - ヒス - ブー - ベベ - グラ - ラフ - 検
6166 比較 コム
6057 カルビアン コム
5805 デニム ダンガリー 150 - コム - ヒス - ブー - ベベ - グラ - ラフ - 検
5243 デニム ダンガリー - ラブ - コム - ヒス - ブー - ベベ - グラ - ラフ - 検 - wam - was - ストア
4968 インフォ コム
4627 便利 コム
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Old 16th October 2007, 01:08 AM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

I think those of us living here would probably agree
.com as is is better than an alias probably just like China.
It's my personal opinion but any Japanese businessman would not want dot com to equal .会社. Company standing has value in Japan.
Having it in katakana could be an option but if it's dot com it's international & sounds cool as is.
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Old 16th October 2007, 01:16 AM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

OK, guys. ICANN is depending on us to come up with a solution. Do we put this up to a vote or continue discussion for a few more years.

:p

Just kiddin'! It is interesting to hear such different perspectives.
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Old 16th October 2007, 01:16 AM
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Re: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
I think those of us living here would probably agree
.com as is is better than an alias probably just like China.
It's my personal opinion but any Japanese businessman would not want dot com to equal .会社. Company standing has value in Japan.
Having it in katakana could be an option but if it's dot com it's international & sounds cool as is.
The English .com may be more acceptable to Japanese people, than other non-English speakers/countries, but there apparently will be some equivalent, so, from what you're saying, Japanese people may actually prefer to use .com instead of .会社 or .コム?
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