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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10th March 2006, 02:54 AM
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Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

I am seeing this quite a lot on DNForum, and to a lesser extent here. Many folks, after registering a domain which turns out not to mean what they thought (wrong tense, extra characters, wrong meaning, never used in the target language, etc.) seem to be desperately trying to rationalise the domain as still having some value in sales threads.

Many have been flexible with the truth, and others have been out and out resorting to lies, which hopefully people will continue to flag.

Genuine mistakes will always happen, of course, especially when most of us are working with languages we're not familiar with. However, once such mistakes are pointed out and verified, they should be accepted as such!

It's terribly important given the current stage of the IDN industry that we hold ourselves collectively to a HIGHER standard than regular ASCII domainers do. Let's face it, it's only going to take a handful of scare stories and bad word of mouth to set the IDN market back enormously, just as it will only take a handful more flagship sales to alert serious investers to the potential value of IDNs... We're on the crest of a wave that's gathering speed, but let's not do anything to let that wave collapse again.

So...

1) if you messed up a translation, correct it. Bury the incorrect translation forever and never refer to it again.

2) if you messed up a registration - I mean REALLY messed up, to the point that the resultant name is worthless trash - then please DON'T PASS IT ON. Delete the domain immediately, or put it to one side in your notes so that you can remember not to renew it, but it shouldn't be presented for sale to others.

I pledge to abide by the above in my IDN dealings. If you agree, please add your pledge to this thread and encourage others to do the same.
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Old 10th March 2006, 03:10 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Some people are making it look like ebay over there.
I might have to wait for Sedo Japan for good sales...

I know a lot of you requested it but I hope they find someone on the staff who knows about the IDN market.

The guy with the Don't trust Chinese IDN sig just makes it worse.
"Don't trust Chinese IDN's but pay me $35 to check your translations"
I don't believe in IDN's but I'll charge you 5 times your registration cost to check for something I don't believe in nor see the value in....
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Old 10th March 2006, 03:43 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin
I am seeing this quite a lot on DNForum, and to a lesser extent here. Many folks, after registering a domain which turns out not to mean what they thought (wrong tense, extra characters, wrong meaning, never used in the target language, etc.) seem to be desperately trying to rationalise the domain as still having some value in sales threads.

Many have been flexible with the truth, and others have been out and out resorting to lies, which hopefully people will continue to flag.

Genuine mistakes will always happen, of course, especially when most of us are working with languages we're not familiar with. However, once such mistakes are pointed out and verified, they should be accepted as such!

It's terribly important given the current stage of the IDN industry that we hold ourselves collectively to a HIGHER standard than regular ASCII domainers do. Let's face it, it's only going to take a handful of scare stories and bad word of mouth to set the IDN market back enormously, just as it will only take a handful more flagship sales to alert serious investers to the potential value of IDNs... We're on the crest of a wave that's gathering speed, but let's not do anything to let that wave collapse again.

So...

1) if you messed up a translation, correct it. Bury the incorrect translation forever and never refer to it again.

2) if you messed up a registration - I mean REALLY messed up, to the point that the resultant name is worthless trash - then please DON'T PASS IT ON. Delete the domain immediately, or put it to one side in your notes so that you can remember not to renew it, but it shouldn't be presented for sale to others.

I pledge to abide by the above in my IDN dealings. If you agree, please add your pledge to this thread and encourage others to do the same.

Most of us would not sell a name using an incorrect translation. In fact, i can't recall any case other than the tv show and fist game, the new guy with that translation word, and the guy that Sarcle reported. But it just shows how great an effect a handful of incidents can have. I believe that most people got the translation wrong in the first place themselves, but with the success of idns, scammers that knowingly register wrong names hoping to sell them for a couple hundreds, might appear.

Last edited by touchring; 10th March 2006 at 03:47 AM..
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Old 10th March 2006, 03:51 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Here's mine:

I pledge to abide by the above in my IDN dealings. If you agree, please add your pledge to this thread and encourage others to do the same.
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Old 10th March 2006, 04:10 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

I pledge not to sell domains based on bad translation or misrepresentation.

However I have developed positive dislike of some of my domains (for various reasons), and since I can't delete them, is it ok that I offer them for sale since they may well have value for other people?

Also, I keep harping on this, but I think an official validation process, or official pledge that carries over to DNForum would be very useful.
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Old 10th March 2006, 04:11 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
Some people are making it look like ebay over there.
I might have to wait for Sedo Japan for good sales...

I know a lot of you requested it but I hope they find someone on the staff who knows about the IDN market.

The guy with the Don't trust Chinese IDN sig just makes it worse.
"Don't trust Chinese IDN's but pay me $35 to check your translations"
I don't believe in IDN's but I'll charge you 5 times your registration cost to check for something I don't believe in nor see the value in....

This service is only as good as or just slightly better than Dave's online translator - a lot of words or phrases are correct, but just not used in everyday life. The best verification tool is still US OVT. If it's a common word, you can be sure that at least 20-30 people will search that word using Yahoo.com every month.

Last edited by touchring; 10th March 2006 at 04:14 AM..
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Old 10th March 2006, 04:16 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
This service is only as good as Dave's online translator - a lot of words or phrases are correct, but just not used in everyday life. The best verification tool is still US OVT.
Unfortunately China OVT is not available. Usage differs in mainland and Taiwan, sometimes significantly.

US OVT is good, but limited (many of the mainlanders residing in US are over educated, and not always representative of the overall internet population). A lot of good words don't show up in US OVT at all. Some human eye look is still useful. minimally whether it's generic or likely trademark; whether it's the shortest; whether it's product/service/brandable.
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Last edited by kenne; 10th March 2006 at 04:23 AM..
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Old 10th March 2006, 04:20 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenne
But US OVT is limited. A lot of good words don't show up in US OVT at all. Some human eye look is still useful. minimally whether it's generic or likely trademark; whether it's the shortest; whether it's product/service/brandable.
I think the nations OVT as well as adwords showing up for the term is a good way to know if the phrase is used frequently in the country.
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Old 10th March 2006, 04:28 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenne
I pledge not to sell domains based on bad translation or misrepresentation.

However I have developed positive dislike of some of my domains (for various reasons), and since I can't delete them, is it ok that I offer them for sale since they may well have value for other people?

Also, I keep harping on this, but I think an official validation process, or official pledge that carries over to DNForum would be very useful.

You can delete names if you are using enom. Not sure about DS. What i normally would do is to deactivate autorenew.
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Old 10th March 2006, 04:34 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin
I am seeing this quite a lot on DNForum, and to a lesser extent here. Many folks, after registering a domain which turns out not to mean what they thought (wrong tense, extra characters, wrong meaning, never used in the target language, etc.) seem to be desperately trying to rationalise the domain as still having some value in sales threads.

Many have been flexible with the truth, and others have been out and out resorting to lies, which hopefully people will continue to flag.

Genuine mistakes will always happen, of course, especially when most of us are working with languages we're not familiar with. However, once such mistakes are pointed out and verified, they should be accepted as such!

It's terribly important given the current stage of the IDN industry that we hold ourselves collectively to a HIGHER standard than regular ASCII domainers do. Let's face it, it's only going to take a handful of scare stories and bad word of mouth to set the IDN market back enormously, just as it will only take a handful more flagship sales to alert serious investers to the potential value of IDNs... We're on the crest of a wave that's gathering speed, but let's not do anything to let that wave collapse again.

So...

1) if you messed up a translation, correct it. Bury the incorrect translation forever and never refer to it again.

2) if you messed up a registration - I mean REALLY messed up, to the point that the resultant name is worthless trash - then please DON'T PASS IT ON. Delete the domain immediately, or put it to one side in your notes so that you can remember not to renew it, but it shouldn't be presented for sale to others.

I pledge to abide by the above in my IDN dealings. If you agree, please add your pledge to this thread and encourage others to do the same.
Completely agreed with each word. The market still very fragile, we should care about it.

I pledge to abide by the above in my IDN dealings
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10th March 2006, 05:35 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

as i posted on the other thread about editing IDN sales on DNForums, the minimum is to say a little more about your IDN. As bad as selling one IDN with incorrect grammar, etc. is to offer domains saying is the X english word when is the minimum used one for that meaning. It is very easy to say i m selling car.com when u only have カー and not 車. At least explain a bit more, OVt with some words will be high in both cases, but one is the top one. Say it. If you just hide the fact that there is more than one version to X word for me thats to harm the IDN business.

Someone said that the minimum of information is the best and the customer should do the research, thats not what i think. More information, more data supporting your claim is the best. Thats why this is happening, you just put whatever u want, say see this OVt and search results and done. But while maybe there are another versions to that word with higher OVT and more search results. It doesnt hurt to say it. My opinion, everyone can think whatever they want.
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Old 10th March 2006, 07:50 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

1) if you messed up a translation, correct it. Bury the incorrect translation forever and never refer to it again.

2) if you messed up a registration - I mean REALLY messed up, to the point that the resultant name is worthless trash - then please DON'T PASS IT ON. Delete the domain immediately, or put it to one side in your notes so that you can remember not to renew it, but it shouldn't be presented for sale to others.

I pledge to abide by the above in my IDN dealings. If you agree, please add your pledge to this thread and encourage others to do the same.

Here is mine. This is a no brainer. I try to live by the golden rule (no, not the one about he who has the gold)
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Old 10th March 2006, 07:51 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnceo
as i posted on the other thread about editing IDN sales on DNForums, the minimum is to say a little more about your IDN. As bad as selling one IDN with incorrect grammar, etc. is to offer domains saying is the X english word when is the minimum used one for that meaning. It is very easy to say i m selling car.com when u only have カー and not 車. At least explain a bit more, OVt with some words will be high in both cases, but one is the top one. Say it. If you just hide the fact that there is more than one version to X word for me thats to harm the IDN business.

Someone said that the minimum of information is the best and the customer should do the research, thats not what i think. More information, more data supporting your claim is the best. Thats why this is happening, you just put whatever u want, say see this OVt and search results and done. But while maybe there are another versions to that word with higher OVT and more search results. It doesnt hurt to say it. My opinion, everyone can think whatever they want.
I was not trying to say that you should not put whatever information you wish. I was simply saying that I don't.

In many cases I don't give Google or Overture when I have a fixed priced sale. The first question is going to be, how can he justify that price? That is good because it makes people curious and it makes them do research. It also means that I cannot be accused of trying to mislead anyone! The message is that these names speak for themselves. Frankly, anyone about to spend 5 figures or more should be prepared to do substantial research.

If you are going to give detailed information, please make sure it is accurate. This includes Google Scores between speech marks, as multiple words give misleading results without. Translations should be verified from several sources. Where Overture is quoted for Latin terms it should be made clear that the result is without the accents.
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Old 10th March 2006, 10:16 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

By speech marks do you mean surrounded by "" or quotation marks? Do you use the same marks in Chinese and Japanese?

Just want to clarify in case I have been doing this incorrectly.
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Old 10th March 2006, 10:28 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Use "keyword keyword" i.e. double quotes either end. Use the quotes even if it's a single string of characters (e.g. Chinese) - Google can separate them without you noticing.

So you would type "character1character2character3" for instance.

This will return only the pages with those keywords, characters etc. in exactly that order.

A real example...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=home+loan

... returns 327,000,000 results for pages with home and loan somewhere on them. The words can be anywhere on the page, and don't need to be next to each other.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...22home+loan%22

... returns 19,100,000 results for home loan i.e. for pages with exactly the 2-word keyphrase "home loan" on them, with the words in that order.

Now for an example where the distinction is MUCH more significant.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=spat+penguin

... returns 117,000 results for pages with spat and penguin on them somewhere.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...pat+penguin%22

... returns 1 result (cool, a Googlewhack - not really, because "" are cheating when it comes to Googlewhacks, but it makes my point nicely)

In other words, "spat penguin" as a keyphrase is 100.0000% worthless, but if you quoted the Google without the "" marks you could still say it 'got' 117,000 Google results!
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Last edited by Edwin; 10th March 2006 at 10:31 AM..
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Old 10th March 2006, 10:31 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Ok thank you Edwin. I have been doing it correctly. I was just thrown off by the term "speech marks". I have never heard that one before.
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Old 10th March 2006, 10:46 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Selling something it is not is the oldest trick in the book. It has been done since the beginning of mankind. So, the buyers should do their own DD, check OVT, images, GOOG and YHOO hits and translation sites.

While it is not that hard to do for a single word premium IDN, it will become harder and harder for a combination of two words. I also think the market will figure it out and we'll have our own unbiased members in each language section (section moderators, perhaps) who will translate and put an official stamp on the IDN for a small fee.

What do you guys think?
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Old 10th March 2006, 11:00 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

Along the same lines as 'section moderators', what do you all think of having 'native speaker' logos next to members' avatars?

So, for instance, touchring, giant and kenne could have 'native speaker: chinese' next to their avatars. If a few of these folks endorse a particular translation, it should be generally accepted as correct.

These titles could be added next to members' avatar profiles after a sufficient number of posts to ensure that they really do know what they're talking about.
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Old 10th March 2006, 11:38 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

I pledge...

We had a case there yesterday, where someone challenged a translation, and, claiming to speak Russian, but not being familiar with a Russian OS claimed that обои is not wallpaper, as in wallpaper for your desktop. There was a lot of argument about rather simple points of grammar. Some people who speak up as so called experts are immigrants who have no clue as to how the language is used in the country. I felt sorry for the seller who's sale was challenged.

I'm a professional simultaneous interpreter, but I don't feel like getting involved in heated threads about translations. One comment should suffice.

As wrdekle put it "But since we aren't actually here to dole out lessons in Japanese..."

http://www.dnforum.com/f298/com-tran...ad-137595.html

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 10th March 2006 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 11th March 2006, 06:34 AM
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Re: Stop trying to paper over the cracks!

what they should do on DNforums is to divide the sales by at least 4 categories for now, chinese, japanese, russian and others languages IDNs, and the first 3 ones as these IDN are the most traded for now on DNF and to ask a real native speaker to check the sales threads to verify everything is okay.

I dont agree with bilingual guys or claiming to be bilingual giving their "translations". The case of that russian IDN is one, as other IDNs, a lot of people giving their "translations" but very few being truly native speakers on that language. If a moderator is native chinese speaker and he says is X then nobody who isnt close to native level should contradict. In one japanese i saw someone correcting a japanese IDN because he said he was bilingual but he truly has a correct japanese word, no mistake...Native speakers moderators are needed.
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