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-   -   Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme! (http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1391-ratio-3-2-1-jp-reigns-supreme.html)

rhys 10th March 2006 08:14 AM

Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
If you go to Yahoo Auctions you see precious few IDNs on auction now. But this little tidbit caught my eye and I think it is a single data point of evidence for what I have believed and advocated ever since I joined this forum: that .JP IDNs not .COM will command greater resale value. I know others have mentioned that .JP domains shoud be discounted relative to .COM and I have always asserted that the opposite will prove to be the case.

Basically the following domain 能楽 "nohgaku" or "Noh play" is put up for auction in 3 extensions by a presumably Japanese domainer:

日本語ドメイン『能楽.net』 450,000 円 approximately $4090
日本語ドメイン『能楽.com』 900,000 円 approximately $8081
日本語ドメイン『能楽.jp』 1,350,000 円 approximately $12272


PLEASE NOTE BEFORE YOU FLAME ME: I am not claiming this is proof or anything ridiculous of the sort. Merely this points out how one Japanese domainer prioritizes the value of a single IDN term in three extensions that he owns. I believe that as we see more native auctions in the Japanese market, this pattern will become obvious to all of us. Now let the great flaming begin! :)

http://search3.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/...ale=0jp&acc=jp

Rubber Duck 10th March 2006 08:20 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
I think the main conclusion from this is that there is clearly growing conviction that all three extensions are worth a great deal more than reg fee! The market will show us eventually, but it can be volatile. I have often been quoted examples of dot info going for more than dot within a short space of time. It will take a some time for a clear pattern.


Quote:

Originally Posted by rhys
If you go to Yahoo Auctions you see precious few IDNs on auction now. But this little tidbit caught my eye and I think it is a single data point of evidence for what I have believed and advocated ever since I joined this forum: that .JP IDNs not .COM will command greater resale value. I know others have mentioned that .JP domains shoud be discounted relative to .COM and I have always asserted that the opposite will prove to be the case.

Basically the following domain 能楽 "nohgaku" or "Noh play" is put up for auction in 3 extensions by a presumably Japanese domainer:

日本語ドメイン『能楽.net』 450,000 円 approximately $4090
日本語ドメイン『能楽.com』 900,000 円 approximately $8081
日本語ドメイン『能楽.jp』 1,350,000 円 approximately $12272


PLEASE NOTE BEFORE YOU FLAME ME: I am not claiming this is proof or anything ridiculous of the sort. Merely this points out how one Japanese domainer prioritizes the value of a single IDN term in three extensions that he owns. I believe that as we see more native traffic in the Japanese market, this pattern will become obvious to all of us. Now let the great flaming begin! :)

http://search3.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/...ale=0jp&acc=jp


touchring 10th March 2006 08:21 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
What does 能楽 translate into? Some sort of trademark?

So it looks like Dave isn't too far off with his 100K valuation for translation.com.

rhys 10th March 2006 08:25 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by touchring
What does 能楽 translate into? Some sort of trademark?

So it looks like Dave isn't too far off with his 100K valuation for translation.com.

No, it translates into "Noh Play" - the traditional Japanese theatre of Noh. It isn't a trademark but a generic.

And Dave, it does illustrate the point you mention as well, which is we are all looking more and more in the money all the time! But lets not lose the central point here which is that this fellow irrational or not believe what you wish, chooses not to place .com in the same league as .jp. What's going on in his mind? Is it illustrative of the market as a whole or is he just an outlier.

Rhys

touchring 10th March 2006 08:45 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Yes, are the 3 bidders the same people? Why would a play be worth so much? I checked JP OVT, only 4442?

rhys 10th March 2006 08:50 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by touchring
Yes, are the 3 bidders the same people? Why would a play be worth so much? I checked JP OVT, only 4442?

Yes it is the same seller in each case. It isn't a play - it is the art form itself. It is the Japanese equivalent of "Opera.com"

If this were an actually completed auction with these prices realized, it would be much richer proof point altogether. As it is, this is a one-sided valuation like many we see around these days on DNForum and elsewhere!:p

gammascalper 10th March 2006 08:55 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Good information rhys.

I would reserve marking-to-market on ask prices instead of actual transactions, but I suspect you are correct: .jp will command a premium to .com, just like .de German IDN command a premium to .com.

And I'm not talking my book either... I have many more .com than .jp.

touchring 10th March 2006 08:56 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gammascalper
Good information rhys.

I would reserve marking-to-market on ask prices instead of actual transactions, but I suspect you are correct: .jp will command a premium to .com, just like .de German IDN command a premium to .com.

And I'm not talking my book either... I have many more .com than .jp.


German .de will command a very much greater premium to .com than .jp has over .com. Definitely more than 3/2, probably 2/1 or more. I used to work with a German colleague, when i mentioned .com, his face changed and seemed irritated.

rhys 10th March 2006 09:05 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gammascalper
Good information rhys.

I would reserve marking-to-market on ask prices instead of actual transactions, but I suspect you are correct: .jp will command a premium to .com, just like .de German IDN command a premium to .com.

And I'm not talking my book either... I have many more .com than .jp.

Same here - I have 450.com, 100 .net and maybe 180 .jp at this point.

seamo 10th March 2006 09:46 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
I couldn't agree more with you rhys -

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhys
...JP IDNs not .COM will command greater resale value.

Or gammascalper for that matter:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gammascalper
...I suspect you are correct: .jp will command a premium to .com, just like .de German IDN command a premium to .com."

I'm an Aussie, and it makes sense to me that if I want to find something in Australia, my native inclination will be to search .au.

But if I'm looking for terms that are more generic, I will tend to stray to the .com side of the force.

Successfully deliniating the line between cultural & global search habits is the key to real IDN $$$. It is evident that right now many IDNforum members are sitting on millions of dollars worth of IT real estate.

Also, Japan's economy is experiencing a boom at the moment. I think JP investor's will soon swoop on the IDN market with a force that will rock the domaining industry. Many here will become millionaires OVERNIGHT!!!

(please invite me to your parties when you are Über-rich)

10/10...good thread!

Clotho 10th March 2006 09:48 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
A very interesting piece of information. I appreciate your candor as well. :) Ultimately any domain will be valued according to the traffic it generates multiplied by the ability to monetize that traffic. Barring this, price will be determined by what the market will bear. At this early stage in the game we do not yet know the results of this formula so all is speculation. I have domains in .net .com and .jp. All of them have value.

I believe that the relative strength of .jp to .com will be determined by the nature of the domain itself. Americans may not understand this since all they have known is .com. .us is much to new to play a role. In other countries if the user is looking for something local. The post-office for example. I believe they are much more inclined to type in poste.fr. If they are looking for something global, say, a credit card. Then I think they would be more inclined to type in cartedecrédit.com.

In the example of 能楽 or Noh Play, because it is an art form that is unique to Japan, I would definitely expect the .jp to be the preferred extension.

That being said, I have a few example of single terms in all 3 extensions. In all cases the .com has been outperforming the other two in terms of traffic. Even when the traffic is sorted for traffic from Asia. As another experiment go to the Japanese Overture tool and check the results for the terms "jp" "com" and "net". Take it for what it is worth but you will notice that the 'com' produces a much higher Overture than the other two.

Edit for Seamo. Haha! we posted similar thoughts at the same time. I didn't get to read yours till after I had posted this!

Rubber Duck 10th March 2006 09:55 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by seamo
I couldn't agree more with you rhys -



Or gammascalper for that matter:



I'm an Aussie, and it makes sense to me that if I want to find something in Australia, my native inclination will be to search .au.

But if I'm looking for terms that are more generic, I will tend to stray to the .com side of the force.

Successfully deliniating the line between cultural & global search habits is the key to real IDN $$$. It is evident that right now many IDNforum members are sitting on millions of dollars worth of IT real estate.

Also, Japan's economy is experiencing a boom at the moment. I think JP investor's will soon swoop on the IDN market with a force that will rock the domaining industry. Many here will become millionaires OVERNIGHT!!!

(please invite me to your parties when you are Über-rich)

10/10...good thread!


Thanks for the thumbs up, perhaps I should get you to talk to my Bank Manager;)

I think it is important to understand that the registrations of dot JP in ASCII do not approach those of dot com for Japanese Sites, and that the need for a ccTLD will diminish as the Local Language characters will give the user search relevance, without them having to worry about which version of a Search Engine to use or which extension, will provide the most meaningful content. Dot com give you American sites and content, but not in Kanji.

Explorer 10th March 2006 10:52 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
I am afraid I have to disagree on the value of .com vs .jp. While it is great to see the prices so high, I think most Japanese buyers/sellers don't take into account a growing probability of DNAME proposal. So, at the end, that .com will probably translate into .IDN, where as .JP will stay .JP. A full IDN.IDN will be worth more to the Japanese end-user than just IDN.JP, in my opinion.

touchring 10th March 2006 11:14 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Explorer
I am afraid I have to disagree on the value of .com vs .jp. While it is great to see the prices so high, I think most Japanese buyers/sellers don't take into account a growing probability of DNAME proposal. So, at the end, that .com will probably translate into .IDN, where as .JP will stay .JP. A full IDN.IDN will be worth more to the Japanese end-user than just IDN.JP, in my opinion.

Oh you're a genius, i didn't thought of that! Anyway, Japan might go the way of China, announce a .会社 and maybe map it to .jp. Or it may map .日本 to .jp (if ICANN allows that to happen). The future is yet to be seen. :)

idnceo 10th March 2006 11:48 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clotho
If they are looking for something global, say, a credit card. Then I think they would be more inclined to type in cartedecrédit.com.

I agree with Rhys as usual.

cartedecrédit.com is global as french is spoken in many countries around the world. now tell me what global implications are in クレジットカード.com? creditcard.jp is global as Bush, Castro and Osama can read it; クレジットカード.com isnot, as only any person speaking japanese will do. :rolleyes:

And because of this, it makes more sense to use クレジットカード.jp as flagship domain that reinforces the sense of japanese/japan. If you think a japanese IDN is global, then someone should contact global japanese companies and tell them to switch to IDNs. And now when you want a car you dont visit toyota.com but トヨタ自動車.com , not anymore global sony.com but ソニー.com As you can see it mades sense and will always be to a global company to use the .com as in toyota.com because everyone can read it, but in japan these global japanese companies could feel free to use his japanese name トヨタ自動車.jp , ソニー.jp I think is time to realize a japanese IDN .com is not global, as people around the world cant read it. Another issue to support .jp

Rubber Duck 10th March 2006 12:57 PM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by touchring
Oh you're a genius, i didn't thought of that! Anyway, Japan might go the way of China, announce a .会社 and maybe map it to .jp. Or it may map .日本 to .jp (if ICANN allows that to happen). The future is yet to be seen. :)

If ICANN deploys DName Mapping the .日本 will resolve to .jp, unless the Japanese choose something else!

rhys 10th March 2006 02:27 PM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
If ICANN deploys DName Mapping the .日本 will resolve to .jp, unless the Japanese choose something else!

Thanks Dave or Duck. Do you know how attractive .日本 will be to the Japanese? Very compelling

The other aspect to think about is that in .com land - the Japanese have to share some overlap in kanji domains with the Chinese. This will drive them BATTY!!! It is not a cute inconvenience for them. It will be more like, "what the &*&*( is up with this crap! I can't READ THIS!"

blastfromthepast 10th March 2006 03:09 PM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
I also noticed this:

・海外発送はしません。(Seller will not ship internationally.)

Haha!

idnowner 10th March 2006 03:23 PM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rhys
Thanks Dave or Duck. Do you know how attractive .日本 will be to the Japanese? Very compelling

The other aspect to think about is that in .com land - the Japanese have to share some overlap in kanji domains with the Chinese. This will drive them BATTY!!! It is not a cute inconvenience for them. It will be more like, "what the &*&*( is up with this crap! I can't READ THIS!"

I've discussed this before, but for overlapping kanji domains - if Chinese and Japanese DNAME is applied to a single domain, it *may* be possible to serve a Chinese or Japanese version of the website, depending on where the visitor is (as you can determine the country of the visitor) - maybe using a third level - something like: Japan: 日本.KANJI.会社, China: 瓷.KANJI.公司

OR, as another solution, or if the visitor is not from China or Japan - you could present a split-screen choice: "Click here for China" or "Click here for Japan." I don't know if the language tag will present a problem, but with overlapping kanji domains, it might be possible to capture the benefits of two countries.

thegenius1 20th February 2007 11:24 AM

Re: Ratio 3:2:1 ....JP reigns supreme!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
I also noticed this:

・海外発送はしません。(Seller will not ship internationally.)

Haha!

Sorry to bump such a old thread but noticed a few guest\'s viewing it , but this part is funny as hell !


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