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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:05 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Thks, Tina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaDam
IF it is decided that the exisiting operator of .TLD should operate some version of ".IDN-TLD" then there is the question of how that is done. Aliasing, which would mean that <domain.TLD> and <domain.IDN-TLD> goes to the same registrant - or some other way with sunrise rules, or first-come-first serve -- is all open questions as well.
This means more reg fee to incur!! Was one of the scenario i considered. :o
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:08 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Tina,

If the tld operator gets .dname and requires a sunrise period for idn.com holders it will be a PR nightmare for Verisign. You will practically be screwing all of us after we helped verisign & icann's idn testbed. Many of us have spent thousands of dollars developing our sites.

You should take a look at domainguru's thai site. He's getting tons of pageviews.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:31 AM
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Re: Welcome Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
I guess another thing that pops up is
Why do press releases refer to IDNs as "coming out by the end of 2008".
The information relating to mid 2008 is related to the fact that the process for introduction of new gTLDs currently is expected to be available by mid 2008. Now, the technical part needs to be ready as well in order for this process to include "IDN gTLDs". We can't say for sure until we have more results from the tests related to the IDN TLDs that are currently in the root, but that is the goal.

On the cc-front, the ccNSO and the GAC have requested an issues report for IDN policy issues. After the issues report they may vote to start the formal Policy Development (PDP). The best guesses however are that thids PDP will take between 2-7 years - and since a greater need has been expressed the ccNSo and teh GAC are currently discussing whether they can launch a faster process than the PDP and run the two in parallel with the faster process introducing a limited number of "IDN ccTLDs". I think these two groups will have more information by the ICANN LA meeting later this month.

Tina
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Old 17th October 2007, 05:38 AM
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Re: Welcome Tina

Welcome Tina - it is a real privilege to have you on the forum.

We hope you feel welcome, and are able to visit our little community regularly!

Thanks for answering our questions - it is greatly appreciated
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:39 AM
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Re: Welcome Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaDam
The information relating to mid 2008 is related to the fact that the process for introduction of new gTLDs currently is expected to be available by mid 2008. Now, the technical part needs to be ready as well in order for this process to include "IDN gTLDs". We can't say for sure until we have more results from the tests related to the IDN TLDs that are currently in the root, but that is the goal.

On the cc-front, the ccNSO and the GAC have requested an issues report for IDN policy issues. After the issues report they may vote to start the formal Policy Development (PDP). The best guesses however are that thids PDP will take between 2-7 years - and since a greater need has been expressed the ccNSo and teh GAC are currently discussing whether they can launch a faster process than the PDP and run the two in parallel with the faster process introducing a limited number of "IDN ccTLDs". I think these two groups will have more information by the ICANN LA meeting later this month.

Tina
Another 2-7 years? So we should be paying $ to support this testbed for another decade with the possibility of getting screwed during a sunrise?

Ok, I look forward to that ICANN meeting. Hopefully none of the IDN workshops will be cancelled like last time. ;-(
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:40 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmarketing
Tina, welcome to the site. I have one question that's been on my mind for a while:

As registrants, what routes do we have available to affect these policy decisions?
There are a few ways.

One would be to participate in the ALAC work. http://alac.icann.org/ The ALAC is the At-Large Advisory Committee and they have a working group for IDNs.

Another is participating in the tests at http://idn.icann.org - this is all about user expectation and expectations.

Another is the more technical oriented protocol revision, which takes places under the IETF. Next meeting is in Vancouver in December, but most work takes place via emails. http://www.ietf.org

Depending on how close you are to your registrars you may also be able to influence them and in that way work through the registrars constituency.

Depending on whether or not you are a Government representative you might be able to join your governments representative in the GAC. http://gac.icann.org

Maybe you can ask application providers to make chnages that you would like to see....although this is also an anticipated result of the idn.icann.org

If the characters you would like to use in domain names are not in Unicode yet (the IDN protocol is based on Unicode) then work with the UTC on getting it included.

ICANN sometimes have forums for public comments, keep an eye on http://icann.org or http://icann.org/topics/idn and the associated RSS feeds...

...ok there are other ways, but its getting late here. Let me know if you can use any of the above.

Tina
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:42 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaDam
There are a few ways.

One would be to participate in the ALAC work. http://alac.icann.org/ The ALAC is the At-Large Advisory Committee and they have a working group for IDNs.

Another is participating in the tests at http://idn.icann.org - this is all about user expectation and expectations.

Another is the more technical oriented protocol revision, which takes places under the IETF. Next meeting is in Vancouver in December, but most work takes place via emails. http://www.ietf.org

Depending on how close you are to your registrars you may also be able to influence them and in that way work through the registrars constituency.

Depending on whether or not you are a Government representative you might be able to join your governments representative in the GAC. http://gac.icann.org

Maybe you can ask application providers to make chnages that you would like to see....although this is also an anticipated result of the idn.icann.org

If the characters you would like to use in domain names are not in Unicode yet (the IDN protocol is based on Unicode) then work with the UTC on getting it included.

ICANN sometimes have forums for public comments, keep an eye on http://icann.org or http://icann.org/topics/idn and the associated RSS feeds...

...ok there are other ways, but its getting late here. Let me know if you can use any of the above.

Tina
Tina, in the past many of us have posted on the ICANN IDN boards only to have our questions unanswered - then months later the board would be "closed" due to inactivity(because people know their questions aren't being answered) then 're-opened"
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:43 AM
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Re: Welcome Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Clarke
Welcome, Tina.

I would also like to reiterate what Olney has stated.

Many of the forum members here, have invested heavily in IDNS...
when many mainline domainers, were bocking at these domains, and those that would have a belief that they would/could be successful.

Without this commitment to IDNS, by the members here, and on other IDN forums, over the last few years, it is doubtful that they (IDNS) would be in the position they are today.

That certainly must count, in any future decisions, by ICANN or their governing bodies.

Kindest Regards....Steve.
IDNs have been a topic of discussion for a very long time. I know at least part of the community would have liked to see full IDNs earlier. I think from the time we launched the IDN Porgram we have gone through the excerzies necessary. and there may be a few more to come.

As I think I mentioned in an earlier post, ICANN as the organisation does not make the policy decisions, so I can only urge you to participate (see suggestions above).

Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fka200
IDNs are amazing for people who cannot speak English. I see a bright future with them. What Steve has said is absolutely true. Without us, IDNs would be nowhere near what they are today. If only I could forward you 10-15 PMs/E-mails I've received from others who truly "hate" IDNs... you would know what I'm talking about. We've developed these IDNs and caused a mini-awareness. It would be great if we could know what was going on and be included and thought of with any future decisions.
So obviously I think IDns are a good thing and will make things a lot easier - especially for those who would like local communication using characters from scripts different than the basic Latin. However, trust me I get a lot of concerns and questiosn from people who are not feeling the same way.

But that is what the Internet is all about - it is what the bottom-up processes are about so that it is the users and the businesses on the Internet that push the development forward. In the case of IDNs this has been difficult from both technical, policy and political and linguistic standpoint because all these areas have split opinions.

However, at this point we have a lot of groups working in the same direction. I think this will end well and it is offcourse nice to see all the support from this group too.

Tina

Last edited by TinaDam; 17th October 2007 at 05:48 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:49 AM
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Re: Welcome Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaDam
IDNs have been a topic of discussion for a very long time. I know at least part of the community would have liked to see full IDNs earlier. I think from the time we launched the IDN Porgram we have gone through the excerzies necessary. and there may be a few more to come.

As I think I mentioned in an earlier post, ICANN as the organisation does not make the policy decisions, so I can only urge you to participate (see suggestions above).

Tina
(IF)
Is Verisign going to be put in charge of what is to be done if they are given .com equivalent for the .idn ?

So pretty much once you give it to Verisign they would decide whether to give it to us or charge us....

Hmm since its Verisign they will likely charge us! Hopefully the working groups will set the rules of what is to be done by the registries that get a .idn version.

I think Verisign would sue ICANN if they aren't given all the .com variants in other languages. Also if another registry got the .idn of the .com equivalent fat chance there will be dname. They would most likely charge $40/year.

I'm happy that you are here tonight answering questions. I wish someone from ICANN would have joined these boards earlier. They could have seen from a first person perspective what is going on here and asked questions.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 05:57 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Hello Tina and welcome to our forum. Very much appreciate you stopping by and answering questions.

1) Wondering if you have any guess of the timeline for policy decisions that will give us the final outcome regarding idn.com, idn.net etc. and idn.idn. Or will that be on a country by country basis.
See one of the aove comments. One a gTLD front the goal is mid 2008 for applications - then offcourse it requires some entity to apply to become an IDN TLD operator and pass through the evaluations and launch. On the ccTLD front, if the "faster-than-PDP" is launched then they will aim at the same timeline. As you may know ICANN has a different relationship with ccTLD registry operators than with gTLD Operators so the processes are anticipated to be somewhat different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
2) Will Verisign be given the rights to any equivalent of .com in idn version?
This is a policy question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
3) Verisign put forth the proposal for DNAME. Can you tell us the pros and cons of DNAME implementation from your perspective?
This is a longer topic. It is not so much about DNAME, but about aliasing. From a personal opinion this has to do with either promoting competition or securing IP rights. It is also one of the issues under policy discussions. In the IDN Program at ICANN I have a placeholder for analysing potential methods for providing aliasing but this is not yet initiated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
4) Why is that there is little mention of the fact by ICANN that IDNs are "live and working" today within the existing internet system?
That is a mistake and not the intention at all. We are well aware of the IDN implementation at the second level of various TLDs. The experience from this implementation and use is what is driving the IDN TLD development. I will try to see if we can find a way to make this more obvious.

Hope this helps,
Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Thks, Tina.



This means more reg fee to incur!! Was one of the scenario i considered. :o
You are right - one of the benefits for the registrant is that aliasing does not result in more registration fees, but the other mentioned options might. There is a middle way where the registry/registrar offer the <domain.TLD> and <domain.IDN-TLD> as a bulk for the same price.

Last edited by TinaDam; 17th October 2007 at 06:00 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 06:04 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaDam
You are right - one of the benefits for the registrant is that aliasing does not result in more registration fees, but the other mentioned options might. There is a middle way where the registry/registrar offer the <domain.TLD> and <domain.IDN-TLD> as a bulk for the same price.
Hi Tina,

You have been very helpful thanks. Hopefully there will be a way in which each party will be happy. Maybe they could follow in CNNIC's footsteps and offer the chinese .cn variant to those that own the .cn. (the .idn variant of .cn is only seen within china's borders).
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 06:05 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
Tina,

If the tld operator gets .dname and requires a sunrise period for idn.com holders it will be a PR nightmare for Verisign. You will practically be screwing all of us after we helped verisign & icann's idn testbed. Many of us have spent thousands of dollars developing our sites.

You should take a look at domainguru's thai site. He's getting tons of pageviews.
With DNAME (or as I prefer aliasing, since DNAME is not a solution to aliasing that has been proven to work....not to mention what about lower levels than the second or third depending on the TLD?) there can't be a sunrise. If you aliase one TLD to another then that means that everything in the zone for the one will automatically work under the other.

Tina
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Old 17th October 2007, 06:07 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaDam
With DNAME (or as I prefer aliasing, since DNAME is not a solution to aliasing that has been proven to work....not to mention what about lower levels than the second or third depending on the TLD?) there can't be a sunrise. If you aliase one TLD to another then that means that everything in the zone for the one will automatically work under the other.

Tina
So are you saying that DNAME has been tested and it is pretty much a no go?
What are the other ways of aliasing? NS Records?

I picture one day that individuals from all walks of life will be able to use domain names in their native language. They could type .com in any language and end up at the same site instead of 1000 possibilities. Having 1000 possibilities is just opening up a can of worms and will make countries more likely to find the opportunity to pull away and form their own internet within their borders. Having DNAME will make the internet more unified and less disrupted.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 06:15 AM
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Re: Welcome Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
Another 2-7 years? So we should be paying $ to support this testbed for another decade with the possibility of getting screwed during a sunrise?

Ok, I look forward to that ICANN meeting. Hopefully none of the IDN workshops will be cancelled like last time. ;-(
wow, you guys are hard to keep up with

IDN on the second level are not a testbed. The idn.icann.org evaluation forum does not cost anything (you also cant make registrations).

The 2-7 year view is the reason that the ccNSO and GAC are trying to see if they can do soemthing faster. Is this is initiated then they are aiming at mid 2008, just like the GNSO is aiming at.

Looking forward to seeing you in LA as well - since I don't really know who you are please make sure to catch me at one of the meetings.

Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
Tina, in the past many of us have posted on the ICANN IDN boards only to have our questions unanswered - then months later the board would be "closed" due to inactivity(because people know their questions aren't being answered) then 're-opened"
I can only say I'm sorry about that. I hope it wont happen again and will try my best to make sure it will not. It can be hard with limited ressources to reply back to everything but we really try.

Tina

Last edited by TinaDam; 17th October 2007 at 06:29 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 17th October 2007, 06:20 AM
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Re: Welcome Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaDam

Looking forward to seeing you in LA as well - since I don't really know who you are please make sure to catch me at one of the meetings.
Can anyone go to the meetings?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 06:23 AM
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Re: Welcome Tina

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
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I'm happy that you are here tonight answering questions. I wish someone from ICANN would have joined these boards earlier. They could have seen from a first person perspective what is going on here and asked questions.
Thank you for the warm welcome and all the questions. I don't mean this the wrong way as it certainly is staff responsibility to be responsive to the community, but I did not know about the forum before. All my contact details are available online and so in return i wish soemone from the forum had contacted me earlier....with 24 hours in a day its impossible to notice all forums and blogs and everything. So let's just say its better late than never
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Old 17th October 2007, 06:24 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
If the tld operator gets .dname and requires a sunrise period for idn.com holders it will be a PR nightmare for Verisign. You will practically be screwing all of us after we helped verisign & icann's idn testbed. Many of us have spent thousands of dollars developing our sites.

As you mentioned, China already aliases .china (idn) to .cn, and .company(idn) to .company(idn).cn. .com.cn has no IDN support. So aliasing is nothing new, and proven to work.

Now, if there's no aliasing, imagine if .ком is not aliased to .com. Every mother father son hacker in Russia is going to register any bank or credit card company name they can get hold of for their scam ops.

Take for example, bank of russia:

1. БанкРоссии.com -> Bank of Russia owns this.
2. БанкРоссии.ком -> Hacker owns this!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 17th October 2007, 06:28 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
So are you saying that DNAME has been tested and it is pretty much a no go?
No, it has not been tested as an aliasing method at the top level, as far as I am aware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy
What are the other ways of aliasing? NS Records?
Not directly, but some have considered using NS records and leaving the registry operator to ensure the two zones are the same. Whether or not this is technical possible I also dont know. Another option would be for ICANN to ask the IETF for advize on how to provide a technical solution that would enable aliaising. It's a topic we need to look into if this is what the community wants. At present though I don't have the ressources for this, but please keep in mind that if we were to wait for aliasing function then we would not be this far with IDN TLDs inserted as NS-records.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fka200
Can anyone go to the meetings?
Yes, the ICANN meeting is open and free of charge (except for travel and accommodation if needed). There are only a few meetings there that tales place under closed doors. You can find the agenda and information at http://www.icann.org (see the link to LA meeting in the left side bar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
As you mentioned, China already aliases .china (idn) to .cn, and .company(idn) to .company(idn).cn. .com.cn has no IDN support. So aliasing is nothing new, and proven to work.
The way that the IDNs under .cn is working is via the Chinese ISPs appending the ".cn" part, or via the user downloading a plug-in. I don't believe it has been established that these are technical stable solutions on a global basis.

Last edited by TinaDam; 17th October 2007 at 06:35 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 17th October 2007, 06:39 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Hi TinaDam

Some rumors said that, you will turn IDN.COM to IDN.IDN?

Is really? Please confirmed
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Old 17th October 2007, 06:44 AM
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Re: Reply to: IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario? -

Quote:
Originally Posted by ca191s
Hi TinaDam

Some rumors said that, you will turn IDN.COM to IDN.IDN?

Is really? Please confirmed
Let me try to make this clear. ICANN staff does not make policy decisions. whether or not <domain.tld> and <domain.IDN-TLD> will be aliased, go to the same registrant etc, is a policy question. See some of the above posts and you will see a status about the policy development work.

However, I am working on making IDN TLDs a reality. That is what the testing at http://idn.icann.org is all about. We want to make sure that the technology is stable enough to move to production (which will enable registrations) under IDN TLDs.

Tina
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