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Old 21st October 2007, 10:19 AM
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Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

http://gnso.icann.org/issues/new-gtl...m#_Toc35657638


1. Recommendation 2 Discussion -- Strings must not be confusingly similar to an existing top-level domain.

2. Recommendation 3 Discussion -- Strings must not infringe the existing legal rights of others that are recognized or enforceable under generally accepted and internationally recognized principles of law. Examples of these legal rights that are internationally recognized include, but are not limited to, rights defined in the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industry Property (in particular trademark rights), the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) (in particular freedom of expression rights).

MS Dorias (Chair of GNSO Council) comments include the following:


vii) In addition, the Committee referred to the 1883 Paris Convention on the Protection of Industrial Property[48]. It describes the notion of confusion and describes creating confusion as "to create confusion by any means whatever" {Article 10bis (3) (1} and, further, being "liable to mislead the public" {Article 10bis (3) (3)}. The treatment of confusingly similar is also contained in European Union law (currently covering twenty-seven countries) and is structured as follows. "...because of its identity with or similarity to...there exists a likelihood of confusion on the part of the public...; the likelihood of confusion includes the likelihood of association..." {Article 4 (1) (b) of the 1988 EU Trade Mark directive 89/104/EEC}. Article 8 (1) (b) of the 1993 European Union Trade Mark regulation 40/94 is also relevant.
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Old 21st October 2007, 10:24 AM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

terribly verbose? any kind soul care to summarize?

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Old 21st October 2007, 10:35 AM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

What it means is that they are using this 1883 Paris Treaty as the acid test on Confusingly Similar. This is much broader than just looking at Trademarks. What it basically means is if there is any general public consensus anywhere that a symbol means dot Com then it belongs to Verisign. End of story.
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Old 21st October 2007, 10:49 AM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
terribly verbose? any kind soul care to summarize?
It means that Verisign will very likely receive anything which looks like a .com extension mapping.

It does not, however, 100% mean that the extensions will be aliased. They could potentially be created anew in the root and simply handed over to e.g. Verisign, thereby enabling Verisign to sell names separately under all of their namespaces.

All in all, it seems that things are looking good for aliasing, though. Good news for me as I am pretty nicely invested in Arabic :-)

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Old 21st October 2007, 10:53 AM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

True, but Verisign came up with and have championed the DNAME proposal. This only allows aliasing. It does not accommodate new extensions. The inference is that their clear desire is to Alias dot com, not replicate it.

There is also a strong argument that by duplicating extensions within the Root they would themselves be in breach of the treaty. ICANN could prohibit them from doing this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
It means that Verisign will very likely receive anything which looks like a .com extension mapping.

It does not, however, 100% mean that the extensions will be aliased. They could potentially be created anew in the root and simply handed over to e.g. Verisign, thereby enabling Verisign to sell names separately under all of their namespaces.

All in all, it seems that things are looking good for aliasing, though. Good news for me as I am pretty nicely invested in Arabic :-)

.
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Old 21st October 2007, 01:11 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Exactly, This has been my expectation for some time. I particularly like the following paragraph:

The list of existing top-level domains is maintained by IANA and is listed in full on ICANN's website[40]. Naturally, as the application process enables the operation of new top-level domains this list will get much longer and the test more complex. The RyC, in its Impact Statement, said that "...This recommendation is especially important to the RyC. ... It is of prime concern for the RyC that the introduction of new gTLDs results in a ubiquitous experience for Internet users that minimizes user confusion. gTLD registries will be impacted operationally and financially if new gTLDs are introduced that create confusion with currently existing gTLD strings or with strings that are introduced in the future. There is a strong possibility of significant impact on gTLD registries if IDN versions of existing ASCII gTLDs are introduced by registries different than the ASCII gTLD registries. Not only could there be user confusion in both email and web applications, but dispute resolution processes could be greatly complicated." The ISPCP also stated that this recommendation was "especially important in the avoidance of any negative impact on network activities." The RC stated that "...Registrars would likely be hesitant to offer confusingly similar gTLDs due to customer demand and support concerns. On the other hand, applying the concept too broadly would inhibit gTLD applicants and ultimately limit choice to Registrars and their customers".


So in a nutshell:

Verisign will have the necessary tools to defend its intellectual property rights. ie. all transliterations of .com will belong to Verisign.

Verisign proposed aliasing via Dname but even if Dname isn't accepted they could point the transliterations in the root to the appropriate .com version and accomplish the same thing. ie. Dname isn't the only solution that reduces confusion.

Icann has recognized that if new gTLDs conflict with existing gTLDs then there will be confusion and negative impact on several levels. therefore It is of prime concern for the RyC that the introduction of new gTLDs results in a ubiquitous experience for Internet users that minimizes user confusion.


It isn't policy yet but things seem to be moving in a good direction for us and for all users of the Internet. There will be continuity. There won't be confusion.

I am confident that Verisign will manage its intellectual property in a responsible manner. Dname may be the simplest solution but it isn't the only one that satisfies our concerns.
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Old 21st October 2007, 01:24 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Basically awaiting ratification by the Board. Consultation appears to have been completed:

2. This document is the Final Report of the Generic Names Supporting Organisation's (GNSO) Policy Development Process (PDP) that has been conducted using ICANN's Bylaws and policy development guidelines that relate to the work of the GNSO. This Report reflects a comprehensive examination of four Terms of Reference designed to establish a stable and ongoing process that facilitates the introduction of new top-level domains. The policy development process (PDP) is part of the Generic Names Supporting Organisation's (GNSO) mandate within the ICANN structure. However, close consultation with other ICANN Supporting Organisations and Advisory Committees has been an integral part of the process. The consultations and negotiations have also included a wide range of interested stakeholders from within and outside the ICANN community.
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Old 21st October 2007, 01:42 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Tina...
Can you give us your interpretation of this from the ICANN perspective.
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Old 21st October 2007, 03:42 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Tina...
Can you give us your interpretation of this from the ICANN perspective.
Bill, have faith in IDN.com! Even while you wait for Tina's interpretation

This is indeed a very big news for IDN.com holders. We can start celebrating now, no need to wait till 2008. When will IDN.IDN be here is no more a concern. IDN.com will be king because it will have the best alias it wants.
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Old 21st October 2007, 03:47 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Yes, we only have to hope that Verisign chooses wisely. :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
Bill, have faith in IDN.com! Even while you wait for Tina's interpretation

This is indeed a very big news for IDN.com holders. We can start celebrating now, no need to wait till 2008. When will IDN.IDN be here is no more a concern. IDN.com will be king because it will have the best alias it wants.
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Old 21st October 2007, 03:49 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
Bill, have faith in IDN.com! Even while you wait for Tina's interpretation
This is indeed a very big news for IDN.com holders. We can start celebrating now, no need to wait till 2008. When will IDN.IDN be here is no more a concern. IDN.com will be king because it will have the best alias it wants.
Of course I do...but interested to get an opinion from someone who gets to go to the meetings "behind the closed doors".
There is a lot of political wrangling going on, and a lot of money at stake depending on how this all plays out.
If Verisign tries to sell a whole nother brand of idn.idn (com) it will be to the detriment of our .com holdings.

Given that Verisign themselves put forward the DNAME proposal for aliasing they would be hard pressed imo to change course and do something that detrimental to their .com holders. I have never been worried about IDN implementation from day 1, it was always just a matter of time. It has always been about waiting them out...and that could have been many more years.
We all know the history of how long things can take with ICANN.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 21st October 2007 at 04:00 PM..
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Old 21st October 2007, 03:51 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

The big question in my mind is does this go before the Board in LA or do we have to wait for Delhi? Either way it is party time. Who is in charge of the festivities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Of course I do...but interested to get an opinion from someone who gets to go to the meetings "behind the closed doors". I have never been worried about IDN from day 1. It has always been about waiting them out...and thatcould have been many more years.
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Old 21st October 2007, 03:53 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clotho
So in a nutshell:

Verisign will have the necessary tools to defend its intellectual property rights. ie. all transliterations of .com will belong to Verisign.
Precisely!
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Schilling and many of the large portfolio domainers...
have often written that dot Com is a trillion dollar brand.
Probably trillions....as Google hits $ 600/ share ...... grin....


Verisign is not going to injure the dot COM brand.

The 200,000 dot gonsi dot cn owners are likely to be the loudest complainers and losers when the Chinese dot com finally gets aliased as 'gonsi' or some other expression....


I keep searching the web to find possible other expressions for 'dot com' other than gonsi as likely........to no avail.

I would very much welcome if a Chinese native speaker could comment on
a likely substitute for 'gonsi' ...


A friend of mine in Shang Hai, said if the CP/PRC can move 10 million people to build a dam...then screwing 200,000 name holders is a child's play move for them....


the com of dot com never meant 'company' to Vint Cerf and his crew when they
rolled it out in the late 80's / early 90's......

Many early Internet ISP's referred to dot com as 'com ' for commercial purposes,
and not mil for military, gov for government, and edu for education....
so maybe the Chinese words for commerce or commercial might be used .....


From what I can gather on IDNclub........people there believe the dot gonsi dot cn holders are going to get screwed.

thanks.

Steve
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:17 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

If it is understood to mean dot com, they will probably get screwed whether Verisign end up using it or not. But then who was trying to screw who in the first place?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sbe18
Schilling and many of the large portfolio domainers...
have often written that dot Com is a trillion dollar brand.
Probably trillions....as Google hits $ 600/ share ...... grin....


Verisign is not going to injure the dot COM brand.

The 200,000 dot gonsi dot cn owners are likely to be the loudest complainers and losers when the Chinese dot com finally gets aliased as 'gonsi' or some other expression....


I keep searching the web to find possible other expressions for 'dot com' other than gonsi as likely........to no avail.

I would very much welcome if a Chinese native speaker could comment on
a likely substitute for 'gonsi' ...


A friend of mine in Shang Hai, said if the CP/PRC can move 10 million people to build a dam...then screwing 200,000 name holders is a child's play move for them....


the com of dot com never meant 'company' to Vint Cerf and his crew when they
rolled it out in the late 80's / early 90's......

Many early Internet ISP's referred to dot com as 'com ' for commercial purposes,
and not mil for military, gov for government, and edu for education....
so maybe the Chinese words for commerce or commercial might be used .....


From what I can gather on IDNclub........people there believe the dot gonsi dot cn holders are going to get screwed.

thanks.

Steve
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:39 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Careful what you wish for folks.

If ICANN uses any of this legal stuff to award tranliterations of .com to Verisign (rather than just doing it quietly without quoting any particular legal precedent), the same stuff can be applied at the 2LD, meaning the owner of the [ASCII].com can claim rights to all [IDN].com translits.

You don't want to be arguing yourself into a corner.

I'd be more inclined to STFU and see what happens.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:42 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Totally different case.

There is an existing WIPO policy at the second level.

This policy has not been derived specifically for IDN. It is purely there to see who has the right to apply for what as a registry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert
Careful what you wish for folks.

If ICANN uses any of this legal stuff to award tranliterations of .com to Verisign (rather than just doing it quietly without quoting any particular legal precedent), the same stuff can be applied at the 2LD, meaning the owner of the [ASCII].com can claim rights to all [IDN].com translits.

You don't want to be arguing yourself into a corner.

I'd be more inclined to STFU and see what happens.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:47 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

>There is an existing WIPO policy at the second level.

And this trumps it.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:50 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert
>There is an existing WIPO policy at the second level.

And this trumps it.
Not at all. Meeting requirements for application for domains during sunrise have always been higher than requirement for defending a name at WIPO. This is no different.
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Old 21st October 2007, 07:10 PM
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Re: Dot Com Aliasing - For the bollocks talkers! Please Read and inwardly digest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert
Careful what you wish for folks.
If ICANN uses any of this legal stuff to award tranliterations of .com to Verisign (rather than just doing it quietly without quoting any particular legal precedent), the same stuff can be applied at the 2LD, meaning the owner of the [ASCII].com can claim rights to all [IDN].com translits.
You don't want to be arguing yourself into a corner.
I'd be more inclined to STFU and see what happens.
Those folks had the same right to register IDN .com when they were first available to register,. Or if anything like this
was their intent, should have have offered them "first right of refusal". Or, at very least, the .com holders should have
made their case by threatening a class action filing way back then. Now, eight years later they are going to have an
uphill battle IMO.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 21st October 2007 at 11:25 PM..
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