IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > IDN Discussions > General Discussion

General Discussion Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 10:27 AM
dotworx's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 237
iTrader: (15)
Rep Power: 473
dotworx is an unknown quantity at this point
Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Very long post from Internet Governance on IDN ...I haven't finished reading myself but I'm sure all of you are interested:

http://blog.internetgovernance.org/b...5/3392238.html
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 10:52 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2206
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

QUOTE SUMMARY:
At the end of the day, you get two tracks to a new IDN TLD:

On track one, you have incumbent ccTLD monopolies, who already control anywhere from 98% to 60% of the DNS registry market in their country. Those registries will be given, for free, first pick of two, three, or maybe 20 new IDN TLDs, and be able to implement them before anyone else, in a market that is characterized by extremely high switching costs.

On track two, you have nongovernmental competitors, who will have to wait a year or two extra, pay six-figure sums just to file an application, then another $200-300k to prepare their application and lobby for it at ICANN meetings, and then be subjected to months of challenges, review by "expert panels," and possibly competitive auctions.

QUOTE:
Does anyone believe that .com's owner should be handed a free gift of the "equivalent" of .com in another script? Should the registry for .org get a free gift of the equivalent of the term "organization" in Cyrillic or Chinese? What is the rationale for giving ccTLDs "fast-track" access to self-selected IDN strings and not gTLDs?

MORE QUOTE...
I was originally sanguine about this process, thinking, "sure, give each ccTLD one new IDN string in a script of their choice and be done with it." The govts/incumbents get their pound of flesh and that frees the rest of the world to proceed without interference.

But the international politics of names are too subtle and complex to be so easily contained. First, the countries decided that they couldn't possibly be satisfied with some abstract, two-character representation of their country name in a format that would be the same for everyone. Some countries contended that they couldn't possibly properly represent their country name with only two characters. Sounds fine, except that the beauty of the old ASCII country code list is precisely that it is a standardized coding. It is an essentially arbitrary mapping that obtains its correspondence and meaning through use, not through some divinely ordained correspondence to a country's "real" name. In that arbitrariness there was a complete equality and efficiency. Everyone knows
that 2-letter TLDs are country codes. All country codes are roughly equal, each country gets one and no one is any better
or worse than another.


Once you depart from that rough equality, then it's possible that some of these IDN scripts will be 3 or 4 characters, some will be 2, some may be 6. You are no longer dealing with "country codes" but with words, which means that they are in effect gTLDs. And it is only a short step from that -- a step that many GACers and ccTLD managers are already making -- to claim that they should have more than one, because they need to have "their" country name in multiple scripts. The European Union, for example, said that since its territory includes countries with Cyrillic and 3 other non-Latin scripts, it is legally barred from choosing only one IDN to accompany .eu. (Funny then, how was it legal to get .eu in the first place?) India, it turns out, has 24 different language groups that might represent its name differently. And of course, if one country gets 24 new IDN TLDs, won't they all want that many?

Given the fact that national governments have already demonstrated their tendency to claim all kinds of names related to their country, there is also the possibility that ccTLDs will lay claim to multiple words that refer to the country (e.g., the equivalent of "America," USA, "United States" etc.)

Last edited by bwhhisc; 12th December 2007 at 11:00 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 10:52 AM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4514
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Dreamers!
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 11:04 AM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 988
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Wipo is going to have to hire an army of specialists just to keep up with the incoming complaints of "I own cars.com in ascii and xxx owns it in japanese, I am entitled to his domain." And then you will have the owner of the Japanese romaji ascii.com for cars claiming that he's entitled to the Japanese idn.com for cars.

It is going to get interesting. We need an active lawyer on this forum. Mr. Snow, I know you're watching and I wish you'd join in and comment sometimes under a nick that lets us all know that it's you.

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 11:11 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2206
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
Wipo is going to have to hire an army of specialists just to keep up with the incoming complaints of "I own cars.com in ascii and xxx owns it in japanese, I am entitled to his domain." And then you will have the owner of the Japanese romaji ascii.com for cars claiming that he's entitled to the Japanese idn.com for cars.

It is going to get interesting. We need an active lawyer on this forum. Mr. Snow, I know you're watching and I wish you'd join in and comment sometimes under a nick that lets us all know that it's you. .
If 80% of the world does not speak English...the 99.9% of ascii "domains" have no meaning to the majority of the
non-English speaking world.

Not sure about any "statute of limitations" but IDNs have been sold for over 7 years with no legal challenge to their
validity as far as I know. Any challenge of this sort should have been undertaken back in 2000 and 2001.

Maybe domain lawyer John Berryhill (member at DN Forum) can provide some comments. Whatever happens, it just
reaffirms it is going to be a long road for idn.idn implementation in many languages.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 11:45 AM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4514
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

http://domains.nationalarbitrationfo...ID=314&news=26
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 02:49 PM
Charrua's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 372
iTrader: (2)
Rep Power: 525
Charrua is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

I don’t like these , if they have been profiting with our money for 7 years and never have ask to any of us from the same domain on ASCII version, I think they have no right to do these , in any case I think whoever lose one or more IDNs in base of that can put a lawsuit against and win if not is plain FRAUD.

Disclosure I still have my Soul, i'm not a lawyer .

Charrua.
__________________
Traduçao.com , télétoon.tv + .org , 阿.net , العابجديدة.com , コルム.net , bazár.com , добавить.com , של.com

Last edited by Charrua; 12th December 2007 at 02:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 03:04 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4514
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Don't worry. Most of them don't even understand IDN yet.

Furthermore, if they think they can claim the IDNs they haven't got a clue about Intellectual Property Rights. Mind you that would hardly be surprising because judging by the dot Mobi euphoria, most of them haven't a clue about anything!
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 03:23 PM
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: On the Road
Posts: 2,276
iTrader: (50)
Rep Power: 1224
thefabfive is on a distinguished roadthefabfive is on a distinguished roadthefabfive is on a distinguished roadthefabfive is on a distinguished roadthefabfive is on a distinguished roadthefabfive is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Skype™ to thefabfive
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

I don't see any way the owner of cars.com (for example) could make a claim for "cars" in another language. If there was any legal footing there they would have already attempted to get "cars" in spanish, french, portuguese, etc.

The more talk I hear about IDN.IDN the more I'm happy with plain old ASCII .com.
__________________
IDN? What's an IDN?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 03:32 PM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 988
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefabfive
I don't see any way the owner of cars.com (for example) could make a claim for "cars" in another language. If there was any legal footing there they would have already attempted to get "cars" in spanish, french, portuguese, etc.
I don't see how they could win such a claim, but that certainly won't stop hordes of them from initiating such claims because they believe they have rights to translations. That was my only point. You're right though, if they aren't already going after the ascii translations then no worries.

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 04:17 PM
Drewbert's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,091
iTrader: (20)
Rep Power: 0
Drewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgy
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

And let's not forget that these TM owners have representation at ICANN including people on the board.

We have nothing.

We just pay to run the damn show.
__________________
It's all jaded style to me.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 08:55 PM
dotworx's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 237
iTrader: (15)
Rep Power: 473
dotworx is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

what about owner of Cafe.com claiming the right of Café.com?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 09:07 PM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 988
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Quote:
Originally Posted by dotworx
what about owner of Cafe.com claiming the right of Café.com?
If Cafe.com is trademarked, then Café.com certainly meets the confusingly similar requirement...

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 09:29 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4514
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

And therein lies the problem with Latin names. Generics are nevertheless still Generic.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 09:33 PM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 988
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
And therein lies the problem with Latin names. Generics are nevertheless still Generic.

True you couldn't trademark "cafe", but couldn't you trademark "cafe.com" if you owned it and was using it to build a brand? I'm really not sure.

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 10:06 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4514
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
True you couldn't trademark "cafe", but couldn't you trademark "cafe.com" if you owned it and was using it to build a brand? I'm really not sure.

.
Not in the US. There is no trademarking of Generic + Dot Com!
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 10:12 PM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 988
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Not in the US. There is no trademarking of Generic + Dot Com!

Abstracts?

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 10:22 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4514
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonm
Abstracts?

.
No.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 10:33 PM
dotworx's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 237
iTrader: (15)
Rep Power: 473
dotworx is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

You go to Cars.com and you can see a TM sign in its logo! But I couldn't find a exact match of "cars.com" in USPTO, only this one - "cars.com incorporated".

Maybe RD is right..

However here in Australia, it seems to be possible to register generic.com.au as trademark. There is a popular web site called RealEstate.com.au, and I reg'ed a typo of it and it brought home $100+ each week via NameDrive It's amazing how many people couldn't spell "real estate" right. But the local registry took the name away from me due to "trademark infrigement".
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12th December 2007, 10:43 PM
zenmarketing's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 579
iTrader: (21)
Rep Power: 528
zenmarketing is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Everyone should read: Land Grab? ccTLDs and multilingual names

The TM is for the logo, not the name.

And anway, and "TM" can be added to anything. ® is the symbol for a registered trademark, ie. something that would show up on the USPTO search.

Last edited by zenmarketing; 12th December 2007 at 10:45 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:55 PM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54