IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > IDN Discussions > General Discussion

General Discussion Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 04:52 AM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 979
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

I am just wondering how native end users around the world are reacting to the introduction of IDNs.

In Japan, we are not short of people who show clear resentment against the introduction of IDNs. Maybe 1/5 to 1/3 (revised on 2nd thought) of blog articles about IDNs are against their introduction... The situation is worse in popular BBS like 2-channel. It is unfortunate that they cannot see the value in IDNs, but that's just how it is.

The thing I want to know is, how are the situations in other non-English speaking countries? Do people generally like IDNs? Are there people protesting against IDNs jut like in Japan? And if yes, why are people unhappy about IDNs? Of course, I am talking about those who at least know that IDNs do exist...

Any information is welcome, but country specific examples are especially appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Ryu; 27th January 2008 at 06:46 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 05:36 AM
phio's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arctic Circle
Posts: 1,541
iTrader: (31)
Rep Power: 673
phio is an unknown quantity at this pointphio is an unknown quantity at this pointphio is an unknown quantity at this pointphio is an unknown quantity at this pointphio is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Can you give some examples of the blogs and folks in Japan protesting IDNs.

I'm wondering if part of the problem is that those who are making money in Japan with their ascii domain websites may see the shift to idns as a threat. Which it is of course. Perhaps they (blog and website owners) are stirring up the pot.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 05:40 AM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4510
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

I think you are talking to people that are likely to have their existing investments rendered useless. Those people are bound to have resentment, but arguments by people that are against IDN will raise awareness. End User will go with whatever works. For the average internet user IDN will work for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu
I am just wondering how native end users around the world are reacting to the introduction of IDNs.

In Japan, we are not short of people who show clear resentment against the introduction of IDNs. Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of blog articles about IDNs are against their introduction... The situation is worse in popular BBS like 2-channel. It is unfortunate that they cannot see the value in IDNs, but that's just how it is.

The thing I want to know is, how are the situations in other non-English speaking countries? Do people generally like IDNs? Are there people protesting against IDNs jut like in Japan? And if yes, why are people unhappy about IDNs? Of course, I am talking about those who at least know that IDNs do exist...

Any information is welcome, but country specific examples are especially appreciated. Thanks in advance.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 06:02 AM
Fka200's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SoCal (The Valley)
Posts: 2,134
iTrader: (21)
Rep Power: 1211
Fka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enough
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

I've received threatening e-mails about IDNs. Also hate e-mails about how IDNs are stupid and retarded.

Seriously, no joke. I've had one hell of a ride/experience with IDNs. I've also been in contact with end-users regarding their IDNs. Some people just don't care. I'm sure that'll change in the future...

There's always the other side of the rainbow, though .
__________________
Fka200 Domain Blog
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 06:29 AM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4510
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Which only shows there is a seriously valuable market at stake, and they already understand that they haven't a cat in hells chance of surviving IDN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fka200
I've received threatening e-mails about IDNs. Also hate e-mails about how IDNs are stupid and retarded.

Seriously, no joke. I've had one hell of a ride/experience with IDNs. I've also been in contact with end-users regarding their IDNs. Some people just don't care. I'm sure that'll change in the future...

There's always the other side of the rainbow, though .
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 07:09 AM
Fka200's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SoCal (The Valley)
Posts: 2,134
iTrader: (21)
Rep Power: 1211
Fka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enough
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Which only shows there is a seriously valuable market at stake, and they already understand that they haven't a cat in hells chance of surviving IDN.
Yep. Just two days ago I had a native ask me why I buy domains in Arabic and not English... sometimes things just don't click, huh? (as in unicode vs roman sound alikes).
__________________
Fka200 Domain Blog
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 07:28 AM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4510
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Transliteration as the basis for a naming system is a complete joke. Whilst languages can sort of be written in multiple scripts much of the sense or nuance is lost. Why do think the Persians had to add 4 characters when they adopted the Arabic script. Even then Azeri is hard to write using Farsi Alphabet. When the Vietnamese dropped Chinese characters in favour of Latin. Did they manage to stick to ASCII? Did they hell as like! Basically most language even with the best will in the World cannot be realistically represented in ASCII. Talk about typos, most of the time it is pure guess work. In Czech, most of what English speakers take to be accents are not accents at all. They are distinct letters with completely different sounds than the nearest ASCII representation. Sre thy cn rd all thr txt wthout all th chrchtrs bt its nt lke th prpr scrpt.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 09:26 AM
Semi-retired
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,531
iTrader: (57)
Rep Power: 3442
alpha has disabled reputation
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu
..In Japan, we are not short of people who show clear resentment against the introduction of IDNs. Maybe 1/5 to 1/3 ....
what was their reasoning?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 09:38 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,036
iTrader: (32)
Rep Power: 726
khurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Skype™ to khurtsiya
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

In Russia I think most who knows about IDNs are against them. The main reason is that people think that this will split internet, and then they can't access other-than-russian scripts-domains.

On my question like do-you-often-go-to-arabic-sites or can-you-read-chinese they can't answer smth...

As I know the owner of domenforum.net is against IDNs, though he have had them earlier and, may be, now.
__________________
Киев.com.ua - offers welcome
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 10:51 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 255
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 731
dave_5 is on a distinguished roaddave_5 is on a distinguished roaddave_5 is on a distinguished roaddave_5 is on a distinguished roaddave_5 is on a distinguished roaddave_5 is on a distinguished road
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajiotaj
In Russia I think most who knows about IDNs are against them. The main reason is that people think that this will split internet, and then they can't access other-than-russian scripts-domains.

On my question like do-you-often-go-to-arabic-sites or can-you-read-chinese they can't answer smth...

As I know the owner of domenforum.net is against IDNs, though he have had them earlier and, may be, now.

same in Israel most who knows about it are against IDN's.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 10:58 AM
Fka200's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SoCal (The Valley)
Posts: 2,134
iTrader: (21)
Rep Power: 1211
Fka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enoughFka200 will become famous soon enough
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

I've had 3 hour long conversations with these people who "dislike" IDNs. Seriously, when I first started I was vulnerable enough to fall for their crap. One guy freaked me out in the beginning. I mentioned him a couple times in previous threads. This was coming from a native webmaster living in the Middle East. I talked to a couple more people, same negative response.

There ARE people that think IDNs are an awesome idea, but at times some do make good points against them. To me, screw 'em. I feel good enough to keep marching ahead--full speed. Trying to see if I can sneak in a couple purchases and then I want to work myself out of debt. After that, I'm hoping all hell breaks loose. Not saying I can do it single handedly, but I'm sure I can shake things up--damn sure. Have been bookmarking sites for the last 5 months .
__________________
Fka200 Domain Blog
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 11:08 AM
jacksonm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: (26)
Rep Power: 984
jacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished roadjacksonm is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to jacksonm Send a message via Skype™ to jacksonm
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fka200
I've had 3 hour long conversations with these people who "dislike" IDNs. Seriously, when I first started I was vulnerable enough to fall for their crap. One guy freaked me out in the beginning. I mentioned him a couple times in previous threads. This was coming from a native webmaster living in the Middle East. I talked to a couple more people, same negative response.

There ARE people that think IDNs are an awesome idea, but at times some do make good points against them. To me, screw 'em. I feel good enough to keep marching ahead--full speed. Trying to see if I can sneak in a couple purchases and then I want to work myself out of debt. After that, I'm hoping all hell breaks loose. Not saying I can do it single handedly, but I'm sure I can shake things up--damn sure. Have been bookmarking sites for the last 5 months .

The thing is that the typos / transliterations don't pass the radio test so they pronounce it on the radio properly - and the advertisers don't own the IDN in many cases. This is truly amazing as in many cases, these are generic terms and free for the taking.

.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 11:29 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 406
iTrader: (12)
Rep Power: 588
websjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished road
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

i have absolutely no doubt about the future of IDNs. im very happy that even "this late" in the game i've managed to find and reg some excellent domains - what makes me happier is that a native registrar (digirock) in Japan has woken up about the same time as me and is basically vacuuming anything it can find - however i don't often see their name on .com or .jp.

anyone holding anything like a premium domain will have a nice early retirement. even now i see people selling ascii like crazy but come on its just shooting in the dark - the future from now in idn, now that all the premiums have gone, is longtail keyword match and there you can have rich rich pickings.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 12:09 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4510
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Longtail? Most of the ASCII lot would seat Rattle Snake rather than imported Fillet!


Quote:
Originally Posted by websjapan
i have absolutely no doubt about the future of IDNs. im very happy that even "this late" in the game i've managed to find and reg some excellent domains - what makes me happier is that a native registrar (digirock) in Japan has woken up about the same time as me and is basically vacuuming anything it can find - however i don't often see their name on .com or .jp.

anyone holding anything like a premium domain will have a nice early retirement. even now i see people selling ascii like crazy but come on its just shooting in the dark - the future from now in idn, now that all the premiums have gone, is longtail keyword match and there you can have rich rich pickings.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 12:10 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 979
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Thank you for all the comments.

It's good to hear that Japan is not the only country with those against IDNs.

Russian reasoning to dislike IDNs is interesting because we have a similar situation in Japan. In our case, it is more often people being concerned that if they use IDNs for their websites foreigners and Japanese traveling overseas would not be able to access their websites.

Other commonly cited reasons to dislike IDNs are:
  • Changing the typing mode is annoying;
  • Using search engines work just fine;
  • People will use IDNs for phishing;
  • Cybersquatters will prevail;
  • There will be increased costs for businesses as they need to get hold of their company & brand names;
  • IDNs go against globalisation;
  • Ascii domains are good enough;
  • Japanese never wanted IDNs anyway;
  • There are not enough software support; and
  • Japanese domains are not cool.

A few of the above reasonings have valid points and others are pure none sense.

In any case, I am not at all interested in hearing IDNers here trying to disaprove these points. Rather, I'd appreciate if people could share information about situations concering other countries.

So far, we received comments about the Middle East and Russia. How about China, Korea, Europe, Latin America, South Asia, etc? Do many people dislike IDNs in these countries and regions, too? And are there similarities in their reasonings? Thank you in advance for all the information.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 12:12 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2202
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by websjapan
- however i don't often see their name on .com or .jp..
What are they taking .net and .biz?
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 12:35 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 406
iTrader: (12)
Rep Power: 588
websjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished roadwebsjapan is on a distinguished road
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
What are they taking .net and .biz?
yup - i rejoice everytime i see it
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 12:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,036
iTrader: (32)
Rep Power: 726
khurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished roadkhurtsiya is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Skype™ to khurtsiya
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu
  • Changing the typing mode is annoying;
  • Using search engines work just fine;
  • People will use IDNs for phishing;
  • Cybersquatters will prevail;
  • There will be increased costs for businesses as they need to get hold of their company & brand names;
  • IDNs go against globalisation;
  • Ascii domains are good enough;
  • Japanese never wanted IDNs anyway;
  • There are not enough software support; and
  • Japanese domains are not cool.
All the same in Russia. Just couldn't tell because of my poor English...
__________________
Киев.com.ua - offers welcome
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 12:42 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4510
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu
Thank you for all the comments.

It's good to hear that Japan is not the only country with those against IDNs.

Russian reasoning to dislike IDNs is interesting because we have a similar situation in Japan. In our case, it is more often people being concerned that if they use IDNs for their websites foreigners and Japanese traveling overseas would not be able to access their websites.

Other commonly cited reasons to dislike IDNs are:
  • Changing the typing mode is annoying;
  • Using search engines work just fine;
  • People will use IDNs for phishing;
  • Cybersquatters will prevail;
  • There will be increased costs for businesses as they need to get hold of their company & brand names;
  • IDNs go against globalisation;
  • Ascii domains are good enough;
  • Japanese never wanted IDNs anyway;
  • There are not enough software support; and
  • Japanese domains are not cool.

A few of the above reasonings have valid points and others are pure none sense.

In any case, I am not at all interested in hearing IDNers here trying to disaprove these points. Rather, I'd appreciate if people could share information about situations concering other countries.

So far, we received comments about the Middle East and Russia. How about China, Korea, Europe, Latin America, South Asia, etc? Do many people dislike IDNs in these countries and regions, too? And are there similarities in their reasonings? Thank you in advance for all the information.
Can't resist a few of these. :p

The Japanese Bloody invented IDN!

If IDN are against globalisation then implicitly that means you all have to abandon Japanese and learn English for all on-line written communication. The moment that happens, I will accept that IDN are dead in the water!

Well, this just supports my view that much, but certainly not all, unsubstantiated local opinion is just nonsense.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 27th January 2008, 12:56 PM
touchring's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,547
iTrader: (29)
Rep Power: 1260
touchring is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Are there native end users protesting against IDNs?

Did jacksonm recently say that the Finns only register and never buy an IDN or even an ASCII? A matter of principal?

Perhaps many of you may not realize, but this is the most critical factor whether your IDN will be worth as much, half as much, or even a tenth as much as an ASCII in the future.

If natives reject them, in time to come, your IDN may probably end up reg fee, or just 3 to 4 years PPC, whichever is higher.

If your portfolio is made up entire or majority of names that natives hold an anti-domaining attitude, it is time to diversify and spread your risk.

Last edited by touchring; 27th January 2008 at 01:04 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:22 AM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54