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Old 23rd March 2006, 03:55 AM
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IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

3/25/06 ADDING IDNF MEMBERS IDEAS AND CONTENT TO PROJECT- -
Comments welcome- I will add to thread, and incorporate here at 'top'.
I have given credit to all material found here at IDNF, so everyone knows where it came from. THIS IS JUST TO GET CONTENT AND IDEAS TO GET THINGS MOVING!!! It may stay, be modified or taken out as the groups wishes. if you don't wish to have your info or name posted just pm me and it will be removed. If you wish to edit or modify, do the same. Thanks, Bill

INDEX OF IDN STANDARDS- (open to more or less catagories)
A-Standard Specifications & Requirements for IDN Listings
B-Standard Classifications of IDNs
C-Standards for Allowed, and Non-allowed IDNs
D-Standards of Buyer -Seller Responsibilities
E-Standards of Business Conduct
F-Standards for Due Diligence

PURPOSE OF STANDARDIZATION
(rubber duck)- I had previous proposed a system of whereby the Nomenclenture, Designation or Name is given to a type of sale which automatically invokes a set of rules and standards to be applied to the sale. This system should give a clear explanation of the type of information that is required for each type of sale, which would hopefully eliminated much of the confusion that currently exists. (endquote rubber duck)
(edwin) It's terribly important given the current stage of the IDN industry that we hold ourselves collectively to a HIGHER standard than regular ASCII domainers do. Let's face it, it's only going to take a handful of scare stories and bad word of mouth to set the IDN market back enormously, just as it will only take a handful more flagship sales to alert serious investers to the potential value of IDNs... (endquote edwin).


Section A- STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS FOR IDNS
(touchring) 1. Language type - japanese, chinese simplified/traditional, cantonese, russian, etc. The recent 2 days, i'm starting to see posts on idn sale that doesn't mention language. Some people have also starting calling TW OVT, 'Chinese OVT'.
2. Accurate translation - it must be made clear that a domain sold with completely inaccurate translation is void.

(gammascalper) - Sellers must ALWAYS supply relevant OVT for the language

mkt=br for Portugese
mkt=es for Spanish
mkt=fr for French
mkt=de for German
mkt=kr for Korean
mkt=jp for Japanese
mkt=tw and mkt=hk for Traditional Chinese
Yandex score and mkt=us for Russian
mkt=us for Arabic
mkt=us for Thai

- Split the Sales thread
Japanese and Chinese are currently in high demand: split the sales thread to reflect this. As other languages become more popular, further split the sales thread as needed.

- i-dns 'plug-in' domains
These are not IDN and should be placed in another section altogether. (end gamma)

Section B-STANDARD CLASSIFICATIONS OF IDNs
(rubber duck) These terms will in the first instance be used, to provide standardised conditions for Online Auctions and Fixed Prices sales of domain. The purpose of this is to provide standards by which domains; particularly IDN can be transacted in a professional manner. The intention is to establish sets of rules by which sales will be governed, which can be invoked by just applying a nomenclature to the Sale or Auction.

(Rubber Duck)
Duck Egg
Quack Quack
Ugly Duckling
Rubber Duck
Plum Duck
Snow Goose
Golden Goose

(rubber duck) I have two special categories here, Snow Goose and Ugly Duckling, which will primarily determined higher and lower standards of due diligence on the part of the seller. In the Snow Goose Category only good generic domains of high value and no issues would be allowed. The domains would have to be Single Script, No Typos, No Trademark Issues, No Adult Terms. At the other end of the range would be the Ugly Duckling, which would be for domains that do not reach the criteria for other categories, but may nevertheless turn into beautiful swans from a financial standpoint. (end rubber duck)

OTHER GRADING IDEA: (bwhhisc) A grading scale for IDNs was suggested with Scores 1 (lowest) to 10 (best, premium +)
Another: Mint Premium, Mint, Almost Mint, Very Fine, Fine, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor, Worthless
(note this has 10 items so maybe it can all tie in somehow...(end quote bwhhisc)

SECTION C: STANDARDS FOR ALLOWED AND NON-ALLOWED IDNs
(rubber duck) My personal view is that Non ICANN should be be under a section that is NON ICANN. I don't specifically have a problem with these domains as long as buyers clearly understand what is they are getting. (end quote rubber duck)

(blast from the past) The symbols that can be used for IDNs are limited, and are defined by the Unicode Consortium.
• Unicode charts of symbols http://www.unicode.org/charts/symbols.html (end quote blast)


SECTION E-STANDARDS OF IDN BUSINESS CONDUCT
(Edwin) Many folks, after registering a domain which turns out not to mean what they thought (wrong tense, extra characters, wrong meaning, never used in the target language, etc.) seem to be desperately trying to rationalise the domain as still having some value in sales threads. Many have been flexible with the truth, and others have been out and out resorting to lies, which hopefully people will continue to flag.

Genuine mistakes will always happen, of course, especially when most of us are working with languages we're not familiar with. However, once such mistakes are pointed out and verified, they should be accepted as such!
1) if you messed up a translation, correct it. Bury the incorrect translation forever and never refer to it again.

2) if you messed up a registration - I mean REALLY messed up, to the point that the resultant name is worthless trash - then please DON'T PASS IT ON. Delete the domain immediately, or put it to one side in your notes so that you can remember not to renew it, but it shouldn't be presented for sale to others. (endquote Edwin)

MORE 'MEAT ON THE BONES' TO FOLLOW SOON! We are just trying to compile posts and thoughts here, which can be shortened to a concise finished set ofstandards. Please continue to add new ideas and cut and paste in any past thread or postings that are related.

ORIGINAL THREAD COMMENT- Just a thought for IDNF to step up organize the ideas and standards suggested over the past few months into an organized form, that could serve as the basis for how business is conducted in the IDN industry. Is anyone interested to help?
Many great ideas have been written here at IDNF that tie in to the subject of "Standards for IDN Sales". Likewise some about underhanded sellers, confusing descriptions, mixed script IDNs adn more. Addressing these issues may certainly be a timely project with the rapid interest and expansion in the IDN market. Members of IDNF have the most experience to create standards and principles for this business.
If members are interested to do this, Ait seems the logical way to approach this is to compile a list of topics, or maybe an outline tenatively called the "Index of IDN Standards". From there we can pool resources and ideas to focus on providing the standards we all would like to see for IDN Sales and full disclosure. Some of those topics might include:

Last edited by bwhhisc; 27th March 2006 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 23rd March 2006, 04:08 AM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

Very good Bill. I think it's about time to have standards.

I saw these problems at DNF sales today:

网络保安 Does not mean "Internet Security", strickly speaking. (seller: Unregistered)

The term is used by security companies doing patrolling of the network facility area.
A more correct translation: "Network (facility) security". The seller is probably not aware of the fine distintion.
Although this term is indeed used as "network security" in a few places, the correct term for "Internet Security" should be 网络安全.

Another sales by nickyeahyeah

牛人.com, 牛B.com, 牛逼.com, 血拚.com, these terms are NEW slangs, understood mostly by young people. The seller did say clearly "slangs". So, that should be ok.

For all Chinese IDN domain sales, I suggest we should include one more clarification: Usage. (touchring did mention this before)

Taiwanese usage: Characters are in Traditional Chinese, many terms (6% - 10% ?) are different from terms used in Mainland China.

Ex; 熊猫 Panda (bear-cat) used in China and all over the world.

貓熊 Panda (cat-bear) used in Taiwan.

Cantonese usage: (or Hong Kong usage) Characters can be in Traditional or Simplified Chinese. A few terms (5% ?) are different from terms used in Putonghua or Mandarin.

Ex: 巧克力 Chocolate (Putonghua or Mandarin)

朱古力 Chocolate (Cantonese)


For domain investors, Mainland Chinese Usage domains are more preferable, and Mandarin (or Putonghua) should be the standard language.
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Last edited by Giant; 23rd March 2006 at 04:50 PM..
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Old 23rd March 2006, 04:15 AM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

I remember there was a Rubber Duck standards proposed, many categories were quite intuitive. If we adopt them, the sellers can choose to supply different level of information, seek different level of certification, and price their domains accordingly.

Of course buyer's due diligence is still required. And we still need standard for due diligence for different languages.

Great examples Giant! Buyers should always ask someone native to check out translations before
making a big investment. I offer validation services on DNF and I'm sure people
here will be happy to help buyers vest.

I'm not saying sellers intentionally try to cheat. Even native Chinese may not know the different
usages between some of the examples cited above. I don't think it's the seller's duty to
go through all the details, though it's nice to do, especially when they are asking for hundreds
and thousands.

Touchring also suggests US ovt, which can serve as a low resolution/distorted world ovt,
and well it's better than nothing.
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Last edited by kenne; 23rd March 2006 at 04:32 AM..
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Old 23rd March 2006, 05:02 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

For members that need help when purchasing Chinese domains, please just PM me, I am glad to give you my opinion.

I cannot promise my opinion is flawless, but since Chinese domain name is not rocket science, the chance I can fail is very low.
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Last edited by Giant; 23rd March 2006 at 07:38 PM..
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Old 23rd March 2006, 06:07 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenne
I remember there was a Rubber Duck standards proposed, many categories were quite intuitive. If we adopt them, the sellers can choose to supply different level of information, seek different level of certification, and price their domains accordingly.
Thanks for the input. Yes, this idea is certainly not 'new'. I just figured that from all the IDNF posts by Rubber Duck, Gammascalper, Olney, Touchring, Sarcle, Edwin, Jeff, Giant ......basically everyone here that is active, we have the knowledge and basis from discussions already held to put this together post haste.

More ideas for index and outline appreciated, then we can break them down and begin to put some meat on the bones. Please take a minute to contribute, all ideas welcome. If noone volunteers to be the scribe I second the motion to put that to vote! .
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Old 23rd March 2006, 08:20 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

Yes, this ties in with my concept of a Snow Goose. This sale would have to be whiter than white. I think for this category a verified Translation would be appropriate. Perhaps this could be done at this forum on a fee paying basis. Obviously, this would only be appropriate for high value domains.

Rubber Duck.




Quote:
Originally Posted by kenne
I remember there was a Rubber Duck standards proposed, many categories were quite intuitive. If we adopt them, the sellers can choose to supply different level of information, seek different level of certification, and price their domains accordingly.

Of course buyer's due diligence is still required. And we still need standard for due diligence for different languages.

Great examples Giant! Buyers should always ask someone native to check out translations before
making a big investment. I offer validation services on DNF and I'm sure people
here will be happy to help buyers vest.

I'm not saying sellers intentionally try to cheat. Even native Chinese may not know the different
usages between some of the examples cited above. I don't think it's the seller's duty to
go through all the details, though it's nice to do, especially when they are asking for hundreds
and thousands.

Touchring also suggests US ovt, which can serve as a low resolution/distorted world ovt,
and well it's better than nothing.
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Old 23rd March 2006, 09:50 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Yes, this ties in with my concept of a Snow Goose. This sale would have to be whiter than white. I think for this category a verified Translation would be appropriate. Perhaps this could be done at this forum on a fee paying basis. Obviously, this would only be appropriate for high value domains.

Rubber Duck.
Yes, let's figure out what's the best way to protect buyers, and at the same time not to offend sellers.

Here's another example we can look at.

A sale is on DNF by Polin.

1. 數位相機.net (Digital Camera)

This is a Taiwanese term for digital camera. The Mainland Chinese term in Traditional is 數碼相機 (or 数码相机- in Simplified). (FYI, I do not keep Taiwanese domains because I focus on the bigger market in China)

2. 中国长城.net (Great Wall of China)

The translation is somewhat misleading. It should be "China Greatwall".

It's hard for me to tell everybody not to buy Taiwanese-term domains, that would be unfair to Taiwanese sellers. It's even harder to accuse them of cheating, because the Taiwanese internet users only look for this type of domains, and they could get themselves into (political) trouble if they put up a website using Mainlanders' terms.
Apparently, we should have measures to deal with sellers taking advantage of the situation to exploit buyers.
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Last edited by Giant; 23rd March 2006 at 10:13 PM..
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Old 23rd March 2006, 10:41 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
Yes, let's figure out what's the best way to protect buyers, and at the same time not to offend sellers.

Here's another example we can look at.

A sale is on DNF by Polin.

1. 數位相機.net (Digital Camera)

This is a Taiwanese term for digital camera. The Mainland Chinese term in Traditional is 數碼相機 (or 数码相机- in Simplified). (FYI, I do not keep Taiwanese domains because I focus on the bigger market in China)

2. 中国长城.net (Great Wall of China)

The translation is somewhat misleading. It should be "China Greatwall".

It's hard for me to tell everybody not to buy Taiwanese-term domains, that would be unfair to Taiwanese sellers. It's even harder to accuse them of cheating, because the Taiwanese internet users only look for this type of domains, and they could get themselves into (political) trouble if they put up a website using Mainlanders' terms.
Apparently, we should have measures to deal with sellers taking advantage of the situation to exploit buyers.
even tho taiwan is small it has a working overture and surely ppl will buy

Vietnam for example has alot of companies like mastercard doing business there etc.

That is like saying avoid Canada... Well yea the income is much higher but they have a population of 30 Million.
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Old 23rd March 2006, 10:52 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

I cringe every time I see a new sales thread on DNF. It's quickly degenerating into a swap meet over there (with the exception of some quality domains offered by IDNF folks).

These standard sales rules are sorely needed.
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Old 25th March 2006, 03:29 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

I am traveling, but back late Sunday, early Monday. If anyone wants to post any more ideas for the catagories and topics it is appreciated.

If anyone has time to 'cut and paste' some of the prior thread ideas from here at IDNF that is applicable to sales and listing criteria, rating system, etc. put it on this thread (please give credit to the author). From there we can compile it in an organized fashion and turn it into the beginning of a first draft. Thanks, Bill
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Old 26th March 2006, 12:57 AM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

There's useful stuff in this thread, including my "pledge"...
http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1389...acks%21-a.html
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Old 27th March 2006, 03:57 AM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

Edited original post with 'content' from IDNForum members. Please help and contribute to this project. Thanks!
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Old 27th March 2006, 03:10 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

I see there's a seller rating associated with this forum (though I have no idea how it works). But I think we could use something more, somewhere, a feedback system rather like ebay has that would allow people to see voluntarily-reported information on the part of buyers that could include details of past transactions such as domain name purchased.

It might also be helpful to have some kind of database where people could comment on how well a seller has presented his offerings. With room, of course, for sellers to respond to any allegations of lack of diligence or outright misrepresentation.
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Old 27th March 2006, 03:15 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

I think if we resort to using Ebay as a role model then we really are in trouble. Nearly every IDN offering on Ebay is an utter scam! Having personal experience of being seriously ripped off on Ebay and seeing good ASCII for pennies due to any really meaningful market there, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole!
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Old 27th March 2006, 03:26 PM
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Re: IDNF "Standards for IDN Sales"

I'm not talking about ebay as a general role model, but their feedback system, generally, is very helpful.

One of the things buyers need is a means to readily access the reputation of sellers, based on the past experience of other buyers.

We have a basic problem here: in the IDN market there's going to be an awful lot of fool's gold. People getting burned with fool's gold badly hurts the buying experience and is likely to badly depress the market for higher-quality IDNs, because there will be people who get burned who simply won't buy because of that experience -- or if they do, they won't pay as much.

As someone who has a limited portfolio (very limited compared to RD's!) of high-quality names that have been selected as carefully as possible to avoid such issues as wrong tense, wrong gender, words that aren't actually used in target language, and so forth, I have a vested interest in seeing the overall IDN market prosper. It will not prosper as much if buyers are operating in a fog as it will if they are operating in clarity with full knowledge of what they're getting and who they're getting it from, and know it.

And I would think that most of the people at this forum would also find themselves in similar circumstances. We're the ones who have gotten in early enough to pick up the best names. And I presume most of us are ethical in regard to representation. In that light, we have only to gain from such a system whereby buyers purchase with full illumination of what they're getting and who they're getting it from.
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