Why

[domainstosell]

I can see some logic in the NNNNN.coms, as most are US ZIP codes, so you could build a geo/portal site around those. But you're right, now I even see people regging L-LL.coms and LL-L.coms and counting them down. I don't get it...

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by alexd

Being a quarter Welsh - I am used to them

Ah, the old "why don't kilts have zippers" joke. LOL

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by camarro

that´s not the point.
ascii is a proven market. idn´s are not, and will not be until traffic\revenue rises.
i´m talking real traffic here, i think all of us understand that.
show me an idn that receives 10% traffic of his ascii equivalent, geo, brandables,
adult, whatever. it just doesn't happen right now. we're all hoping for that and mutch more, but most wont take the risk (or grab the opportunity).

And a lot will not get enough of stake early enough to even build a picture of what is happening.

My biggest fear was that Japanese would take off early and the revenues derived would allow their owners to trample all the other languages. Of course that should have already happened with English. Perhaps we should rejoice in their ignorance.

[g]

Originally Posted by alexd

Why do people invest in NNNN.com rather than IDNs ??

Language barrier and lack of international brandability

[yanni]

Originally Posted by Explorer

How much traffic/revenue is in the nnnn.com?

There's an active after-market for these, isn't there?

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by camarro

show me an idn that receives 10% traffic of his ascii equivalent, geo, brandables,adult, whatever. it just doesn't happen right now.

Are you talking about search traffic or type-in traffic?

.

[L@@K]

"Why ?"
Not enough idn developped, so no evidence an idn can beat an ascii in GG, so no need to invest in them.

Put your idn number 1 on GG, and you'll create the need.

[phio]

There is alot at stake for the ascii folks. Last night I was researching spanish adult idns. I picked up a few new regs...but in my research I was more than a little bewildered to see the Huge amount of ascii domains thrown together to make some semblence of a spanish adult name. There were thousands of them, all pretty makeshift with improper spelling and prefixes. I had to chuckle because some of them were really lame. The market is flooded with them, all pointing to the same sort of blog/affiliate sites. Granted some are making money with these sites. I think that they feel that unaccented spanish has already been accepted, and perhaps they are correct to some extent. I think that spanish, french and brazilians will find some relief in accented websites, but the real relief will come with the asiatic languages as well as arabic. I think, (not sure though) that since the ascii'ers have flooded the market with non accented latin, they feel that their saturation is proof that they are on top. So some have a sense of arrogance in regards to IDNs.
The regging of garbage domains is another issue. LLLL.com and LL-L.com can make sense sometimes, but soon it will only make sense for the english speaking world.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by g

Language barrier and lack of international brandability

Yes, but the International Brandability is bollocks. Sony, Toyota and Panasonic are probably the only truly global brands. Coca Cola is represented in many different ways throughout the World.

This is part of the problem. Only the elite domainers are making big Type-in. The others are scratching a living doing "development" for lack of a better word, and most of them can only do that in English.

Originally Posted by phio

There is alot at stake for the ascii folks. Last night I was researching spanish adult idns. I picked up a few new regs...but in my research I was more than a little bewildered to see the Huge amount of ascii domains thrown together to make some semblence of a spanish adult name. There were thousands of them, all pretty makeshift with improper spelling and prefixes. I had to chuckle because some of them were really lame. The market is flooded with them, all pointing to the same sort of blog/affiliate sites. Granted some are making money with these sites. I think that they feel that unaccented spanish has already been accepted, and perhaps they are correct to some extent. I think that spanish, french and brazilians will find some relief in accented websites, but the real relief will come with the asiatic languages as well as arabic. I think, (not sure though) that since the ascii'ers have flooded the market with non accented latin, they feel that their saturation is proof that they are on top. So some have a sense of arrogance in regards to IDNs.
The regging of garbage domains is another issue. LLLL.com and LL-L.com can make sense sometimes, but soon it will only make sense for the english speaking world.

[jacksonm]

OK, I'll give you some small data for one IDN minisite of mine.


Past 30 days
------------------
13968 visits
$211.42 revenue



That seems ok to me. Not great, but ok. I've got a few more sites as well.

.

[thefabfive]

I believe its the risk of IDN TLDs. Many think these will overshadow .com and .net and dominate the market.

[Explorer]

Originally Posted by camarro

that´s not the point.
ascii is a proven market. idn´s are not

If IDNs were a proven market, we wouldn't have this discussion, would we?

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by jacksonm

OK, I'll give you some small data for one IDN minisite of mine.
Past 30 days
------------------
13968 visits
$211.42 revenue

Very nice! Congrats.

[clipper]

Originally Posted by jacksonm

Past 30 days
------------------
13968 visits
$211.42 revenue

This explains it all: $0.015 per visitor.

IMO, Domainers do not exist in a vacuum; they rely on developers and advertising networks, which, at the moment, are not developed enough to attract many domainers.

I applaud your efforts, MJ, and hope to duplicate them; but the 1.5¢ visitor isn't going to open the floodgates.

[sarcle]

Originally Posted by camarro

no traffic, no proven revenue,that's it.

Then please explain the .mobi selling for so much; please.

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by clipper

This explains it all: $0.015 per visitor.

IMO, Domainers do not exist in a vacuum; they rely on developers and advertising networks, which, at the moment, are not developed enough to attract many domainers.

I applaud your efforts, MJ, and hope to duplicate them; but the 1.5¢ visitor isn't going to open the floodgates.

I do not rely on developers, but I do rely on advertising networks at the moment. This site is more of a leads based site, though, and I will very likely go to a direct advertising model in the future.

But this site is no different than ascii IMO. If I mispelled the domain name using only ascii characters, it would probably get less traffic and make less money because less people might click it from the search results and it may not rank as easily in Google. But that's really just speculation...

.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by camarro

domainers aren´t so different than other investors, they're risk adverse,

Disagree .. train is leaving the station .. get on or wait for the NNNNNNNNNN.com bubble

Originally Posted by Explorer

The temporary lack of positive group thinking about IDNs.

I think it's a bit more than than .. most Americans haven't ever even been out of their home country and so it stands to reason they just 'don't get it' .. (apart from thr occasional exception' ... 'we speak "american" after all so why shouldn't everyone else?'

[sarcle]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I think it's a bit more than than .. most Americans haven't ever even been out of their home country and so it stands to reason they just 'don't get it' .. (apart from thr occasional exception' ... 'we speak "american" after all so why shouldn't everyone else?'

I'd agree with this. Traveling in Europe to another country is like traveling to another state in the US.

Hell, many people think that going to the tourist district in Tijuana is traveling and experiencing culture. Most wouldn't even walk a block from it.

[alpha]

first of all, I applaud Michael for raising the topic, after all if you don't look yourself in the mirror and ask this question then you're no better than those that are often accused of having blinkers on.

Originally Posted by camarro

What's the big mistery here?
no traffic, no proven revenue, that's it.
there are exceptions, but that's just what they are.
domainers aren´t so different than other investors, they're risk adverse

If you had asked me this question over 2 years ago, i would have agreed. But I don't think this reasoning holds water now. Let me tell you why..

First of all, I am a believer that if the keyword is toptoptop then the extn is almost irrelevant (of course there’s a pecking order but in most cases its worth the regfee) and so is the absence of any traffic today. So be it .mobi or .asia or a nnnnn.com that is a zip code of New York - I can see immediate value. all that is a no-brainer to me.

but it doesn't stop there, as we know.

the entire dictionary in .mobi has been wiped out.
.asia will more often likely be wiped out too
and as for the nnnnn phenomena, you only have to look at that NP thread to see what’s going on, they are being wiped out in the thousands.. and not zip codes, they are long gone, people are regging based on what the nnnnn would spell according to letters/numbers on a phone keypad - and not toptotptop terms either, random words or combos of random words.

There's even talk of what is a primary nnnnn, people are actively avoiding the number 4 because it's "bad luck" in China. So these people are aware of the greater world and their culture.
Soon they will be moving on to foreign spelt words on the phone keypad - but still they choose this over IDN.

My reasoning is of course biased because I have no n,nn,nnn,nnnn,nnnnn,nnnnnnn etc and do have IDN's.. but i'm trying to understand, but i really for the life of me cannot.

it's also impossible for all these people to be universally stupid - so wtf is it with the aversion to IDN, how can they be seen as a runner up to regging a nnnnn that spells “myhat”. Heck, if given the opportunity, I wouldn’t reg “myhat.com” anyway.

And back to the quote above, of course these reg’s we’re seeing are all speculative/risky. There’s no traffic/revenue/sales history to speak of.

Someone help me out here…

[mulligan]

It's all about 'creating the market' ... 'Create' the market and you will attract buyers .. flowers.mobi anyone?

On a side note .. I have reasonable domains and the reg fee was worth the risk .. renewals are also worth the risk .. for fucks sake ... where else can you dump 7 or 8 dollars and wait for the buyer to turn up with multiple returns on your investment? .. Ok .. so it may take some time .. a few years of renewals .. but you think someone is not gonna 'come a hunting' at some point down the line?

If you want to cash out now and move on

Contact me with your list please ...


As for domainers in general .. and don't take this the wrong way ... a bigger bunch of morons I have yet to meet .. it's mostly fucking idiots (with the occasional 'clued in one') who are into the 'get rich quick' scheme who can't see beyond the the next $15 paypal for some shitty Iamamoronicdomainer.com

Ok .. rant over