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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 21st March 2008, 09:34 PM
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move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Dabsi's post got me thinking. This has GOT to be the future right?

A fragmenting of the domainer forum space is not the bad thing that some worry about, it's the natural progression! After all there are larger numbers of newer domainers coming into the space that are different from the jack-of-all-languages domainers that characterized IDners generation one. General opportunists give way to specialized niche players.

And really, amongst the newer crowds, do the Japanese language domain enthusiasts really care about Arabic domains? Do most of the Arabic domainers really care about Swedish domains? Do most of the newer Swedish domainers really care about Chinese domains?

I think as the communities grow in their constituent countries this trend will continue. Native language speakers getting involved pushes the individual (yes they are distinct) markets to maturity. Places like this forum will remain indispensable places to find information, do research, etc. but the real sales and development action will surely flow to the more specialized forums.

My opinion only, do not make any investment decisions based on this speculation. This is not intended to be a substitute for actual investment advice. Consult your favorite fortune teller before starting any native language forums.
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Old 21st March 2008, 09:38 PM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Well, think of the percentage of domainers who own domains in more than 15 languages.

I bet it is a single digit number. I'm proud to be one of them.

.
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Old 21st March 2008, 10:02 PM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Yeah absolutely typical of the generation 1 IDNers. Mine languages and register the best stuff they can find. But if IDN has legs, it will require a grassroots swelling of the ranks from folks who care about different stuff.

There will always be issues affecting all, and common concerns and topics of interest. But so many more will be accommodated when xyz-language forums cater just to a single group, like IDNclub.com

And yes I realize some of the folks here want to keep the illusion of a unified IDNer community. And yes I realize people start forums like IDNclub saying it is a place welcoming all - but to succeed I think it must be the place for a more focused group.
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Old 21st March 2008, 10:10 PM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
Yeah absolutely typical of the generation 1 IDNers. Mine languages and register the best stuff they can find. But if IDN has legs, it will require a grassroots swelling of the ranks from folks who care about different stuff.

There will always be issues affecting all, and common concerns and topics of interest. But so many more will be accommodated when xyz-language forums cater just to a single group, like IDNclub.com

And yes I realize some of the folks here want to keep the illusion of a unified IDNer community. And yes I realize people start forums like IDNclub saying it is a place welcoming all - but to succeed I think it must be the place for a more focused group.
That is all very well but if it gets much more focused than it is now, we will all end up in our own little bubbles.
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Old 21st March 2008, 10:57 PM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

That's dnlocal.com concept.

And this is my 2000 post!!!
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Old 21st March 2008, 11:40 PM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Congrats Jose!!
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Old 21st March 2008, 11:43 PM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Yes Nice one Jose
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Old 22nd March 2008, 01:20 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
My opinion only, do not make any investment decisions based on this speculation. This is not intended to be a substitute for actual investment advice. Consult your favorite fortune teller before starting any native language forums.
LOL
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Old 22nd March 2008, 01:33 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Now, where do the cross-language idners fit?
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Old 22nd March 2008, 02:55 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

They just fit by hanging out in more than one forum. No biggie.
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Old 22nd March 2008, 02:59 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

homo-linguistic just sounds bad
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Old 22nd March 2008, 06:50 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyP
Now, where do the cross-language idners fit?
In case you had not noticed we went to great effort to ensure that you could not only post in any script but also search in any script at DNL. We also put auto translators into the special local language forums. This attracted no interest whatsoever. What people are apparently after is some kind of anarchic hell, where the forum owner treats you with total contempt, and a site that if hacked would disappear overnight forever. It is going to hard for anyone to compete with that!
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Old 22nd March 2008, 07:43 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
In case you had not noticed we went to great effort to ensure that you could not only post in any script but also search in any script at DNL. We also put auto translators into the special local language forums. This attracted no interest whatsoever. What people are apparently after is some kind of anarchic hell, where the forum owner treats you with total contempt, and a site that if hacked would disappear overnight forever. It is going to hard for anyone to compete with that!
No, what people want is Vbulletin, period. Plain and simple. Anything else just feels weird and is not intuitive to use.

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Old 22nd March 2008, 07:53 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Jose has went to great lengths .. whacked, hammered and beat the befuck out of the current platform to make it 'all langauge friendly' .. incorporate the auction platform .. the chat board ... as for user friendly .. whats missing? Everything you need is right there? No?
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Old 22nd March 2008, 08:20 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan
Jose has went to great lengths .. whacked, hammered and beat the befuck out of the current platform to make it 'all langauge friendly' .. incorporate the auction platform .. the chat board ... as for user friendly .. whats missing? Everything you need is right there? No?

I know, I know. I keep telling people the same about Linux, but they just won't give up that god damned ms windows.

I simply can't understand it, for the life of me.

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Old 22nd March 2008, 09:25 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross
No, what people want is Vbulletin, period. Plain and simple. Anything else just feels weird and is not intuitive to use.

.
Like the vBulletin at DNF that gives you all those weird fonts every time you go into the IDN section.

The reason that we first went away from vBulletin is the fact that it cannot even search its own bloody database in Unicode. We followed the example of IDNer who also dropped the thing.

We tried to follow what the locals wanted.

We get told that what is needed is forums that address local markets but we expected to tailor it largely to what a load of westerns want because they cannot get used to a new format.

Well, frankly until their is an audience to cater for, I am no longer interested. As I said earlier, it is like having a load of teenager on a Porche forecourt expecting the sales manager to action off the stock for what they can rustle up out their pocket money.

My take is that all this going nowhere until, for the serious domainers around here, it won't even matter any more.
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Old 22nd March 2008, 10:31 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
The reason that we first went away from vBulletin is the fact that it cannot even search its own bloody database in Unicode.

Yes, I understand that this is a problem. I tested it on this forum and I can search and find results for words with umlauts, etc, but not for japanese characters.

I wonder if this is actually a problem with vbulletin or with the configuration of the database tables when they are created (should be utf-8 collation). If they are created by default with some iso-8859 crap then yes, this behaviour is to be expected. The default database table collation is a database configuration file option which applies to all programs which create databases and tables (such as vbulletin).

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Old 22nd March 2008, 10:38 AM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross
Yes, I understand that this is a problem. I tested it on this forum and I can search and find results for words with umlauts, etc, but not for japanese characters.

I wonder if this is actually a problem with vbulletin or with the configuration of the database tables when they are created (should be utf-8 collation). If they are created by default with some iso-8859 crap then yes, this behaviour is to be expected. The default database table collation is a database configuration file option which applies to all programs which create databases and tables (such as vbulletin).

.
There was a lot of work done on this at the time and I can assure you the best brains we could get hold of assured us it was impossible. That may have changed but again some research work would be necessary.

vBulletin is nothing special, it is just familiar.

From my perspective though I am not even sure I want in depth conversations with those that cannot get their head around a different forum format. I mean what could such people possibly add to the discussion?

Don't suffer from the illusion that doing all this stuff right is a walk in the park. We saw Craig walk away for a weak whilst he failed to upgrade the site and after a week of blank screens we ended up where we started. Several people nearly had a nervous breakdown of GotIDNs. And for what? Nobody is ever going to make a serious amount of money from this. Even Adam Dicker needs a day job!
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Old 22nd March 2008, 05:34 PM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
That is all very well but if it gets much more focused than it is now, we will all end up in our own little bubbles.
Yeah blast will be lonely in his little Laos forum waiting for someone else to show up

And Ross, er I mean MJ is right, just when this forum was setup the install scripts created the tables with the defaults for collation instead of specifying UTF. Not a big deal to change, so more recent versions may well have this built in.

Familiarity factor - I agree with RD that this platform is nothing special, only what people are used to. But once established, it takes something clearly better to induce people to switch.
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Old 22nd March 2008, 05:45 PM
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Re: move over old guard [one size does NOT fit all]

As I have said before. It matters not too much to me where people go, as long as they have somewhere to go, which is why I have kept DNLocal.com going although it does not always get much love. Doing much at the moment would seem a bit like building a Beijing style terminal to accommodate the Wright Brothers. When it makes sense, we will do more. If somebody wants to launch a super dupper vB Forum, then I ain't stopping them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdw
Yeah blast will be lonely in his little Laos forum waiting for someone else to show up

And Ross, er I mean MJ is right, just when this forum was setup the install scripts created the tables with the defaults for collation instead of specifying UTF. Not a big deal to change, so more recent versions may well have this built in.

Familiarity factor - I agree with RD that this platform is nothing special, only what people are used to. But once established, it takes something clearly better to induce people to switch.
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