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Old 31st March 2008, 01:03 AM
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Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Hi Folks,

Could someone please shed some light on the clauses below specifically whether or not this means existing IDN holders would not have priority rights to acquire corresponding idn.idn domain names.

Thanks,

TD

http://gnso.icann.org/drafts/idn-wg-fr-22mar07.htm .

4.3.4 Aspects relating to existing SLD Domain Name Holders
Agreement:
Agreement that priority rights for new domain names do not derive from existing domain name strings as such, but may, for instance, derive from established IPR. 4.1.7c
Agreement to address aliasing as a policy issue, rather than in terms of any specific technical mode for implementation of such a feature. 4.1.8

Support (alternative views may exist):
Support for measures to protect the rights of others, for example through sunrise periods. 4.2.17
Support for the view that aliasing provides protection of and reduces confusion for existing domain name holders, while recognizing that there may also be disadvantages.
Support for the view that aliasing does not alleviate confusion and should be struck from a list of potential solutions.4.2.19

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 31st March 2008 at 01:24 AM..
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Old 31st March 2008, 01:54 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

In a nutshell, TM owners are speshul, ordinary J6P domain owner, not so much.
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Old 31st March 2008, 02:27 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert
In a nutshell, TM owners are speshul, ordinary J6P domain owner, not so much.
The following pragraph also talks about the support for aliasing which is confusing because why would they aliase idn.com to idn.idn if they will not provide priority rights to existing idn.com holders?

Support (alternative views may exist):
Support for measures to protect the rights of others, for example through sunrise periods. 4.2.17
Support for the view that aliasing provides protection of and reduces confusion for existing domain name holders, while recognizing that there may also be disadvantages.
Support for the view that aliasing does not alleviate confusion and should be struck from a list of potential solutions.4.2.19
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Old 31st March 2008, 03:29 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Verisign has the option to alias idn.com to idn.idn (.com unicode). Some have specualted they will keep idn.com intact,
and for an extra fee, give you both idn.com and idn.idn (.com unicode). That is still speculation, but a possiblity that
would keep all happy, per the comment below.

If Verisign announced that idn.com was now idn.idn (.com unicode) do you not think at lease "some" would object and
state they prefer to keep their .com (english) tld and not the idn version? The only way to appease all would be to alias
via dname or similar.
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Old 31st March 2008, 03:34 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
If Verisign announced that idn.com was now idn.idn (.com unicode) do you not think at lease "some" would object and
state they prefer to keep their .com (english) tld and not the idn version? The only way to appease all would be to alias
via dname or similar.

maybe for other languages, but chinese idn.idn (both .com and .net) is already taken by cnnic. I got quite a few, anyone interested? :p
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Old 31st March 2008, 03:58 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
maybe for other languages, but chinese idn.idn (both .com and .net) is already taken by cnnic. I got quite a few, anyone interested? :p
If .com and .net extensions are intellectual properties of Verisign, wouldn't ccnic then be violating Verisign's TM rights? If this can happen with ChineseIDNs.com, what would prevent it from happening to ThaiIDNs.com names and others as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Verisign has the option to alias idn.com to idn.idn (.com unicode). Some have specualted they will keep idn.com intact,
and for an extra fee, give you both idn.com and idn.idn (.com unicode). That is still speculation, but a possiblity that
would keep all happy, per the comment below.

If Verisign announced that idn.com was now idn.idn (.com unicode) do you not think at lease "some" would object and
state they prefer to keep their .com (english) tld and not the idn version? The only way to appease all would be to alias
via dname or similar.
So Bill, does this basically mean ICANN, as a policy, does not give any priority rights to existing IDN.com holders to acquire corresponding idn.idn names and it is at the discretion of Verisign whether they will extend such rights. In other words, if Verisign chooses, they can also basically make correponding idn.idn (for instance, .com extension in all the languages) available for fresh regs and open to all? Wouldn't that then goes against ICANN's policy of not allowing confusingly similar domain names including IDNs?

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 31st March 2008 at 04:48 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 31st March 2008, 04:10 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Unlike Thai, Japanese, Korean, Arabic or even Russian, for the case of chinese, there is no transliteration for .com and .net. The chinese basically use .com and .net in the original english form, whether in speech or written.

So, the .net and .net in chinese will have to be translated into .company and .network, which are not exactly the same thing.

I don't know about other non-latin languages, but i think that chinese, japanese and korean are quite safe from idn.idn since the english .com is very strong in their native regions. Their idn.idn will be relegated to 2nd or perhaps even 3rd class positions, after ascii .net.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer
If .com and .net extensions are intellectual properties of Verisign, wouldn't ccnic then be violating Verisign's TM rights? If this can happen with Chinese.com, what would prevent it from happening to ThaiIDNs.com names and others as well?

Last edited by touchring; 31st March 2008 at 04:27 AM..
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Old 31st March 2008, 05:07 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Who really cares?

The balloon is about to go up. We are for good or bad locked into what we have until well past the point where it really won't matter anymore.

I have been around these arguments a thousand times and we always arrive back at the start.

At the end of the day, you either take your leap of faith or you don't. Nobody can really help you on this one. And there won't be much in the way of second chances unless you have the kind of money where you can afford to loose much much more than is currently at stake.

As for Rick Latona, well we will have to wait and see. He hasn't even given an indication of what languages he might be interested in let alone budgets. I am certainly not going running at this point like some second hand broom salesman.
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Old 31st March 2008, 05:30 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

"New gTLD registries must conform to the ICANN IDN Guidelines, and must publish their language tables in the IANA Registry. "

Sheesh, even the CURRENT registries don't stay up-to-date with their tables!
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Old 31st March 2008, 11:11 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer
So Bill, does this basically mean ICANN, as a policy, does not give any priority rights to existing IDN.com holders to acquire corresponding idn.idn names and it is at the discretion of Verisign whether they will extend such rights. In other words, if Verisign chooses, they can also basically make correponding idn.idn (for instance, .com extension in all the languages) available for fresh regs and open to all? Wouldn't that then goes against ICANN's policy of not allowing confusingly similar domain names including IDNs?
Again, just reading between the lines and summarizing what many here have interpreted from ICANN policies:

1) The will not allow any .idn tld that is "strikingly or confusingly similar" to existing tld. That seems to rule out other registrars squatting on names that are the equivalent of, or transliteral of .com and .net owned by Verisign.

2) Verisign in their own time frame is able to "alias" .com and .net to their equivalent .idns if they choose. Speculation has revolved around the possibility that they "could" first offer the .idn to existing .com and .net holders or you could have both for an extra fee. Of course, everyone hopes they will alias by dname or other method included in the existing .com and .net reg fee. Read TOUCHRINGS interpretation above, in many languages there is not a good translation it seems. Plus, .com has been used for over a decade and maybe internet users will search for idn.com.

3) While it is a possibility they could screw all their .com and .net holders by offering NEW idn.idn as an all new rollout, I think an unlikely possibility since they authored the DNAME policy for the purpose of aliasing existing idn.com and idn.net domains.

There is 100% certainty that idn.idn rollout is coming over the next few years and will put IDN in the spotlight. But like RD says, its all still a bit of speculation so you either believe or you don't that .com will rise in value and stay at the top of the game.
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Old 31st March 2008, 11:16 AM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

If I get arabic extension aliases for my arabic domains, I'm retired. If not, then I will need to develop some of my latins that already show decent type-in traffic.

.
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Old 31st March 2008, 12:17 PM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross
If I get arabic extension aliases for my arabic domains, I'm retired. If not, then I will need to develop some of my latins that already show decent type-in traffic.

.

I think verisign will offer first claim priority for idn.com and .net owners - but it will mean additional reg fees. Another issue to consider is fake tm on generics, but i doubt the RS and likes will bother about arabics.
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Old 31st March 2008, 12:18 PM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Thank you guys for this info and your analysis.
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Old 31st March 2008, 12:43 PM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
I think verisign will offer first claim priority for idn.com and .net owners - but it will mean additional reg fees. Another issue to consider is fake tm on generics, but i doubt the RS and likes will bother about arabics.
You don't know anything. First and foremost, you cannot even demonstrate that it makes financial sense for Verisign to start new registries, even if they were allowed to. The cost of individually aliasing into each extension are going to high and the risk there woudl be the constant risk of getting their arse sued over TM infringement and other contractual bungles. It is also highly likely that rather than increasing their sales by reinforcing a World beating Brand, they would end of with a busted flush of utter confusion. Verisign might be greedy, but they are not stupid.
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Old 31st March 2008, 10:55 PM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
There is 100% certainty that idn.idn rollout is coming over the next few years and will put IDN in the spotlight.
I thought the idn.idn rollout was 100% this year!?
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Old 31st March 2008, 11:57 PM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnowner
I thought the idn.idn rollout was 100% this year!?
They might get the first one, two, or three languages out....but the rest will happen over a period of years.

I put up a thread with the ICANN 2009 Budget a few weeks ago... worth reading how they will spend your money over the next few years. A lot of money was budgeted for the rollout of idn.idn including "advertising".
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Old 1st April 2008, 03:45 PM
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Re: Priority Rights of Existing IDN Holders

Thanks for all the help and your take Drew, Bill, Dave and Touch. Looks like by the end of this year, things should be clearer for us.

Cheers,

TD

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 1st April 2008 at 03:47 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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