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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22nd April 2008, 06:40 AM
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My Proposal For a New Forum

I will pay Glow $5,000 to buy idnforum.com for our community but no need to transfer the name to anybody. Glow will still be the Administrator of the domain but the Registrant will be something like "IDN Community".

As so much I dislike a totalitarian regime, I dislike a totalitarian forum owner equally. The reason I insist to buy off the ownership of the domain is to let the community to decide (by voting) how to develope an IDN forum or IDN as a whole and not to let a single person to disrupt our effort.

I strongly suggest that Glow take my offer so that no one is the owner of this domain but the community. If it's not appropriate for me to pay all of the amount then we can share it. As long as the domain belongs to the community, we all own it.

If we look back at what have happened at this forum, our community is always right but the owner refuses to follow.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 06:53 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Giant, I don't really think that trying to buy the domain so that somebody else could use it, only after I have managed to start to get strong public support for my idea is the right thing to do. Please, put your big money away and simply support me with $30.

And btw, I am not a totalitarian.

.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 06:57 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Since many members have put in a great deal of effort into DNLocal, we can all work together to transfer DNLocal to a better platform software with a new domain idnforum.com.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross
..., I am not a totalitarian.

.
Olney never said he's a totalitarian either.

Compare you and Olney, I prefer Olney much better --- he never attacks people.
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Last edited by Giant; 22nd April 2008 at 07:04 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 22nd April 2008, 07:22 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
I will pay Glow $5,000 to buy idnforum.com for our community but no need to transfer the name to anybody. Glow will still be the Administrator of the domain but the Registrant will be something like "IDN Community".

As so much I dislike a totalitarian regime, I dislike a totalitarian forum owner equally. The reason I insist to buy off the ownership of the domain is to let the community to decide (by voting) how to develope an IDN forum or IDN as a whole and not to let a single person to disrupt our effort.

I strongly suggest that Glow take my offer so that no one is the owner of this domain but the community. If it's not appropriate for me to pay all of the amount then we can share it. As long as the domain belongs to the community, we all own it.

If we look back at what have happened at this forum, our community is always right but the owner refuses to follow.
The security of the domain is a key issue. It can really only be owned by one individual. That is why I have remained as custodian of the domain at DNLocal.

If we set up a new forum under IDNForums, then we need to get back to original ethos that was there at the onset of GotIDN.

From my personal personal point of view I agree with Giant, but I would personally only have confidence in the venture if he held control of the domain. Whatever, our differences, I believe Joe is morally sound and would do the right thing by the community. It would not concern me to hand over the custodianship of the forum in this way to Joe, because I would be happy that it was in safe hands. The big difference between Joe and I and much of the rest is that we don't even have to worry about trying to make money out of forums. If IDN happen as anticipated, we will have more than enough cash never to worry about such trivialities.

What does concern me is allowing individuals fair access to a public platform. I have been banned from several places, and I understand how some individuals will ration access for their own ends. Beware who you trust.

Running a forum by committee is a nightmare. It is always possible to do things by majority voting, but even getting people to take the trouble to vote proved a bloody nightmare.

If you are going to do this, I think you need to get Alpha and Gamma on board. They understand the pitfalls better than anyone. They also know who not to trust at any price. They also have a strong moral claim on the content of DNLocal, if they choose to excercise it. As indeed does Michael.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 07:45 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

RD, I thought you were drunk in celebrating your BD.

I totally agree with your view about things. Not that I disrespect ROSS/MJ's effort, simply because DNL has been attracted a great deal of efforts of many pioneering idners. Jose and mulligan have been doing a fantastic job too. It will be a disaster and mishap if we abandon dnlocal. So far, perhaps the biggest press release of idn to ascii domainers is Mulligan's radio interview with Monte Cahn about dnlocal:
http://www.moniker.com/domain-master...-03/page-1.jsp

We do not want this to appear as a joke.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 07:51 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

It is an awkward time at DNL, as Mulligan is big game hunting in Africa, or half way up the Hymalayas or something.

My main concern is that Jose is treated fairly, as he is the one that has put most of the time and effort since it was relaunched as DNLocal.

The one thing I agree about with MJ is that people need to put in some meaningful commitment up front before expecting others to work their socks off.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 08:03 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
If you are going to do this, I think you need to get Alpha and Gamma on board. They understand the pitfalls better than anyone. They also know who not to trust at any price. They also have a strong moral claim on the content of DNLocal, if they choose to excercise it. As indeed does Michael.
for the record I am staking no claim in DNL.

I will provide assistance to fund and support for any change or re-lauch, re-name, but I have no desire to facilitate it (ie. decision making, admin, modding)
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Old 22nd April 2008, 08:07 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
Compare you and Olney, I prefer Olney much better --- he never attacks people.

No, in fact, Olney just doesn't do much of anything - and he never did, either. But you people were worshiping him like he was some sort of Ghandi.

People know my personality and it seems that many are still willing to stand behind me, hell they have even asked me to do this thing. I do not simply attack people out of the blue - I call it like I see it. I don't care who you are, IDN god or newbie domainer. All people are equal in my eyes, regardless of the size of their bank account, portfolio, or their skin color / country of origin.

The only person I can think of who would never be allowed to a forum I am running is that SciFi character - the one who keeps misbehaving and trying to make others believe that he is actually me. That guy has problems.

.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 08:45 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Wow, this is getting complicated. LOL.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 09:04 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Wow, this is getting complicated. LOL.
It's pretty simple actually.

This place has been dying for months. A good deal of people just don't want to go to DNLocal, and again I refuse to get into the why. People ask me to build a new forum, so I start the process that nobody else had the desire or initiative to start. Only when I start to gain some wind in my sails do others jump in and try to steal the wind (others who have failed before, btw). That is pretty lame if you ask me.

I got about half the commitments which I desire, and I'll give it one more day (24 hours from now) to get the other 15. If it doesn't happen, then you will get a refund via paypal.

.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 09:27 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross
This place has been dying for months. A good deal of people just don't want to go to DNLocal, and again I refuse to get into the why. People ask me to build a new forum, so I start the process that nobody else had the desire or initiative to start. Only when I start to gain some wind in my sails do others jump in and try to steal the wind (others who have failed before, btw). That is pretty lame if you ask me.
It is this kind of attitude that I find just a little disconcerting. We are talking about try once more to build a community forum and already debate on how this can be achieved is being stiffled and it is already about personalities rather than issues. Anyway, if you are claiming endorsements of senior members, don't you think it is only right and proper that we know who they are?
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Old 22nd April 2008, 09:38 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
The security of the domain is a key issue. It can really only be owned by one individual. That is why I have remained as custodian of the domain at DNLocal.

If we set up a new forum under IDNForums, then we need to get back to original ethos that was there at the onset of GotIDN.

From my personal personal point of view I agree with Giant, but I would personally only have confidence in the venture if he held control of the domain. Whatever, our differences, I believe Joe is morally sound and would do the right thing by the community. It would not concern me to hand over the custodianship of the forum in this way to Joe, because I would be happy that it was in safe hands. The big difference between Joe and I and much of the rest is that we don't even have to worry about trying to make money out of forums. If IDN happen as anticipated, we will have more than enough cash never to worry about such trivialities.

What does concern me is allowing individuals fair access to a public platform. I have been banned from several places, and I understand how some individuals will ration access for their own ends. Beware who you trust.

Running a forum by committee is a nightmare. It is always possible to do things by majority voting, but even getting people to take the trouble to vote proved a bloody nightmare.

If you are going to do this, I think you need to get Alpha and Gamma on board. They understand the pitfalls better than anyone. They also know who not to trust at any price. They also have a strong moral claim on the content of DNLocal, if they choose to excercise it. As indeed does Michael.
OK, let me propose further.

RD since almost everybody here trusts you, I suggest you be the custodian and administrator of the domain name idnforum.com if Glow agrees to sell it to our community with the condition that you will not interfere with the decision making process as a "custodian" but as a senior member :-).

Your comments are precious asset of the forum, and no IDN forum can succeed without your contributing. But since you talk more you will certainly argue more and probably will get mad at somebody, so it's fair to limit you power to ban people :-)

I am busy and traveling constantly, I am not online most of the time. I have enough interesting things to make me happy, I don't need to be a "owner" of a forum to make me happier.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 09:48 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
OK, let me propose further.

RD since almost everybody here trusts you, I suggest you be the custodian and administrator of the domain name idnforum.com if Glow agrees to sell it to our community with the condition that you will not interfere with the decision making process as a "custodian" but as a senior member :-).
Well, I think that my track record would suggest that would not happen.

I would in any event always be prepared to make that undertaking, if it was felt appropriate, but I think if you are paying for the damned thing, then I thnk you should hold it. I personally would be very happy with that.

The biggest problem as I see it are the other two partners at DNL. I think we need Jose to remain as Webmaster. I think he is really the only one competant to migrate the forum to VB. It is also imperative that Jose, and hopefully Mulligan would be happy with the arrangement.

The other thing that I would suggest is that the number of governing members should not be excessive. If you have more than about half a dozen trying to run the thing experience shows that it becomes very unweldy.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 10:25 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
It is this kind of attitude that I find just a little disconcerting.
More disconcerting than this one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber duck
You guys really still think I care! I am touched.

Let me tell you again. I couldn't give a rats arse where you post.

The vast majority of here including the owner have proved themselves to be a complete and utter waste of space.

Those of us that matter know who we are. We are able to communicate as when when we please.

The only reason I am keen to keep DNL going is that it provide those us that want to a place of communication that is safe against those that have been determined to screw it up. But the climate is changing now. Interest in IDN is growing, so the chances of that really happening are slim, and who the fuck cares anyway?
http://www.idnforums.com/forums/113531-post43.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber duck
Anyway, if you are claiming endorsements of senior members, don't you think it is only right and proper that we know who they are?
Well, you will see many of them in the wtf thread as well as the membership drive thread. There are a few, though, that have contributed but didn't say so publicly. If they chose to remain private, I can't force them out of the closet.


Dave, I have seen you say it time and time again, in approximately these words, so no this is not a "quote": As soon as I get rich, screw the rest of you lot, I'm gone.

Fine, when you get loaded with cash, you will disappear and spend your days on the beach sipping gin and juice. Nothing wrong with that. But what about the rest of us who don't have similar ambitions?

.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 10:39 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Well, the only reason that Mulligan, Jose, and I are in charge at DNL is that nobody else stayed the course. Nobody else has cared enough over the last couple of years to do anything until now. When they did start to care, it was manifested in the requirement for me to part with hard cash. Not surprising I was not exactly flattered. Few take the trouble to contribute what they know about the game to others. I am just not going to be bounced by people that are notable by their absense.

On the investment front, yes, I can appreciate the need to have commitment, but I am not utterly convinced about yours. From what I have seen to date it just smacks of opportunism. But isn't this very much part of the pattern. You haven't even invested a serious amount of money in an IDN Portfolio to date. You come in late and expect you meagre investments to be self-sustaining straight away. Where is the fundamental commitment? Where is the belief? I may not be all things to all people, but frankly if you start making comparisons, it is a bit like comparing Etna with Stromboli.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross
More disconcerting than this one?



http://www.idnforums.com/forums/113531-post43.html





Well, you will see many of them in the wtf thread as well as the membership drive thread. There are a few, though, that have contributed but didn't say so publicly. If they chose to remain private, I can't force them out of the closet.


Dave, I have seen you say it time and time again, in approximately these words, so no this is not a "quote": As soon as I get rich, screw the rest of you lot, I'm gone.

Fine, when you get loaded with cash, you will disappear and spend your days on the beach sipping gin and juice. Nothing wrong with that. But what about the rest of us who don't have similar ambitions?

.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 10:41 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
.... I think we need Jose to remain as Webmaster.
Of course.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 11:13 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
On the investment front, yes, I can appreciate the need to have commitment, but I am not utterly convinced about yours. From what I have seen to date it just smacks of opportunism. But isn't this very much part of the pattern. You haven't even invested a serious amount of money in an IDN Portfolio to date. You come in late and expect you meagre investments to be self-sustaining straight away. Where is the fundamental commitment? Where is the belief? I may not be all things to all people, but frankly if you start making comparisons, it is a bit like comparing Etna with Stromboli.

Well, I appreciate the fact that you may not appreciate/approve of my acquisition strategy or methods. Fine with me. I can tell you that my portfolio count (number of domains) is only into 4 figures (small fish), and a good deal of them have been bought secondary or from our favorite auction house. To publicly disclose my acquisition strategy or holdings would not help me in any way. I gauge my success on the performance of my portfolio, not by the approval of others. Right now, I am happy with it's performance. I'm sure that yours is better than mine, but I really don't care unless you are going to bequeath it to me and then go jump off a cliff. (Please don't go jump off a cliff - I just ain't into Chinese domains).

Like I said, I consider all people equal. I do not consider any of you to be of any higher stature than a new member, for example Lipps or Jay, simply because of your portfolio. I am not into hierarchical pecking orders, good-ole-boy networks, hazing of newbies, and the like. I like to keep things as flat and open as possible.

.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 11:53 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

My suggestion:
combine all efforts together;
focus on migrating dnlocal to idnforum;
MJ's raised funds be used on software and hosting fees of idnforum;
excessive funds be used to promote the idnforum community.

Idn community should be united as one.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 11:59 AM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Hi all,

Thank you Giant for your proposal. What we need is ONE other gathering point to replace this place. Moving DNlocal's content to a vBulletin forum on IDNForum.com really makes sense, if DNlocal's team is OK with this and will redirect the name.

I hope all efforts went in the same direction however.

Ross, I appreciate your initiative too. But for the moment I'm not in for another forum. I would, if your project was to integrate Dnlocal's content and have the name redirected to you. We need to gather and not to spread ourselves, that's why Giant's proposal seems more attractive to me.

To sum up I agree 100% with Markits but I'm not very hopeful, reading these days threads...
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Last edited by zorglub; 22nd April 2008 at 12:12 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 22nd April 2008, 12:08 PM
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Re: My Proposal For a New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorglub
Hi all,

Thank you Giant for your proposal. What we need is ONE other gathering point to replace this place. Moving DNlocal's content to a vBulletin forum on IDNForum.com really makes sense, if DNlocal's team is OK with this and will redirect the name.

I hope all efforts went in the same direction however.

Ross, for the moment I'm not in for another forum. I would, if your project was to integrate Dnlocal's content and have the name redirected to you. We need to gather and not to spread ourselves, that's why Giant's proposal seems more attractive to me.

I agree 100% with Markits.

Let's get one thing straight: I am the one attempting to do the gathering, after all this time when nobody else would. We pleaded with Dave to move to VB and he told us to piss off. Giant is the one who stepped in an and attempted to disrupt that process.

.
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