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Old 2nd April 2006, 09:20 AM
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Post Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

”I'm against .ccTLDs PERIOD. Get rid of them. They serve no purpose in the internationalized world except "language" tags that are now irrelevant because of IDNs. The geographic concept to domain naming was abandoned a long time ago.” (blastfromthepast)
”.ccTLD is like a toy to please every country.” (Giant)
”ccTLD's are perfectly fine for people doing business in their own country.” (Drewbert)
”Nobody is ever going to do away with ccTLDs.” (Rubber Duck)
”Guys, please do not start saying cltd is useless only because you have not invested in them. ” (touchring)

I'm invested in ccTLDs myself. I'm not suggesting that they should be removed, although I'm concerned about the lonely ones, ie. YU Yugoslavia, SU Soviet Union.

The fact is, we've seen many countries come and go, leaving their old names, changing form, unifying, expelling dictators, comming under foreign rule, shedding it.

Country names are like Chinese dynasties, impermanent entities subject to the peoples' approval of the rulers' mandate of heaven.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_heaven

A couple of hundred years ago, the Chinese didn't even have a name for China. It was simply known by the name of the dynasty. This led to considerable controvercy in the naming of China debate that continues to this day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shina_%28word%29

Why is this all important? Well, say I bought a .ru domain. Developed it. Then the country changed, as it might. Now, I'm stuck with an outdated name, a brand that I have to forward to a new location. Forever.

This is why the country name organizational metaphore was such a bad idea to begin with in the first place.

Concepts, such as .com, .org, and others, which can be readily translated into all the languages of the world, to suit our needs, are a much more stable way of operating.

Now I don't think ccTLDs should be done away with, nor do I think the concept of a country itself is necessarily bad, but as an organizational principle for the purpose of organizing internet domains, country names are certainly a legacy approach. One that .com has done much to erode, thankfully.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 2nd April 2006 at 09:28 AM..
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Old 2nd April 2006, 07:38 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

Talking about philosophy, there is another reason why we want to see ccTLDs disappear, hopefully in the next 20 years. :-)

When we look back at the world's history, there had been a lot of wars. All these wars had something to do with borders, religion or mainly our differences. But when we started crossing borders and talked to each other and focused more on what we had in common, we had avoided wars. Internet is an instrument we can rely on to eliminate war altogether.

We have already been enjoying the fun of sharing One World together by logging in to our virtual world; we talk, we joke and we do business without worrying about borders or nationalities. While we try to incorporate such ideal yet practical world into our personal life, the shacle of our past taking the form of ccTLDs is still trying to control our mind and spirit. ccTLDs advocate division more than unity!

BTW, 和平.com [Peace].com Simp. & Trad. Chinese, $ Priceless
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Last edited by Giant; 2nd April 2006 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 2nd April 2006, 08:04 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

Bravo to the new World-as-one utopia. But my philosophy is: everything come and go, including internet and world-as-one utopia. Eventually.

However, I'm only interested in 10 year investment. Nationalism isn't going away, and nations remain, in most of the world, the key definers of legal and business boundaries. trademarks, credits, reputations are both local and global.

So I'll invest in both.
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Last edited by kenne; 2nd April 2006 at 08:11 PM..
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Old 3rd April 2006, 10:51 AM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

Nationalism is going to be the driving force in bidding up the value of many of the domain names that are being held right now by speculators.
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Old 3rd April 2006, 06:18 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

Nationalism is being used by CNNIC and JPNIC to their advantage. "the foreign company Verisign is trying to control our language" seems to be a good tactic at this time when people are excited to see IDN domains, but when people get used to IDN domains they will discover IDN.com is just a tool (but a better tool) for them to do business, it has nothing to do with "nationalism" or "control our language".

I think the future value of IDN.com VS IDN.cn or IDN.jp will be the same as Latin.com VS Latin.cn or Latin.com VS Latin.jp today.

All IDN domains with all extentions will be valuable in the future!
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Last edited by Giant; 3rd April 2006 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 3rd April 2006, 06:33 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
Nationalism is being used by CNNIC and JPNIC to their advantage. "the foreign company Verisign is trying to control our language" seems to be a good tactic at this time when people are excited to see IDN domains, but when people get used to IDN domains they will discover IDN.com is just a tool (but a better tool) for them to do business, it has nothing to do with "nationalism" or "control our language".

I think the future value of IDN.com VS IDN.cn or IDN.jp will be the same as Latin.com VS Latin.cn or Latin.com VS Latin.jp today.
I think we have had some robust discussions about this topic not too long ago on this forum. I think China and Japan will play out very differently because the mentality is very different. One is a diffusive culture which seeks to expand and the other is an insular culture with a strong sense of inside/outside.

Maybe my Chinese colleagues on the forum could educate me - It has been my experience that a Chinese American raised speaking Chinese at home could conceivably go to China and be treated and considered "Chinese" - sure somewhat different and strange, but more or less a member of the tribe. This would never ever ever ever ever ever be the case for a Japanese-American. He is an alien, not Japanese. On the other side, a Japanese child whose parents are expats and takes that child abroad to a foreign country for two or three years will come back to Japan and will also be labelled largely as "different" and not purely Japanese anymore. He can still fit in if he tries hard, but he has to overcome the knowledge gap and hide his foreign language skills very well.

Where I am going with this is that ccTLD very much depends on how national identity is articulated, power of a ccTLD brand, and the population of associated speakers outside a country's borders.
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Old 3rd April 2006, 07:41 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

I'm not sure about other countries. But in China every company would like to be an international company, whether it's an online or traditional business. There's huge business opportunities in overseas Chinese too.

China is soon to designate Canada as a tourist destination, and it's just a matter of time before US becomes a destination. More Chinese travellers will mean more net traffic to idn.com/net IMO. And Hong Kong will adopt simplified Chinese in the future I believe. com/net rules!
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Old 3rd April 2006, 08:07 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
I think we have had some robust discussions about this topic not too long ago on this forum. I think China and Japan will play out very differently because the mentality is very different. One is a diffusive culture which seeks to expand and the other is an insular culture with a strong sense of inside/outside.

Maybe my Chinese colleagues on the forum could educate me - It has been my experience that a Chinese American raised speaking Chinese at home could conceivably go to China and be treated and considered "Chinese" - sure somewhat different and strange, but more or less a member of the tribe. This would never ever ever ever ever ever be the case for a Japanese-American. He is an alien, not Japanese. On the other side, a Japanese child whose parents are expats and takes that child abroad to a foreign country for two or three years will come back to Japan and will also be labelled largely as "different" and not purely Japanese anymore. He can still fit in if he tries hard, but he has to overcome the knowledge gap and hide his foreign language skills very well.

Where I am going with this is that ccTLD very much depends on how national identity is articulated, power of a ccTLD brand, and the population of associated speakers outside a country's borders.

Well, China is made of up many different cultures so it depends on which part or even city of China you are talking about. Hong Kong culture is also Chinese, but the American kid living in NYC would probably be able to adapt to life in HK.

Last edited by touchring; 3rd April 2006 at 08:15 PM..
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Old 3rd April 2006, 08:43 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Well, China is made of up many different cultures so it depends on which part or even city of China you are talking about. Hong Kong culture is also Chinese, but the American kid living in NYC would probably be able to adapt to life in HK.
Right. I guess, my question was not so much about the kid adapting as it isn't his choice. It's about how the Chinese around him regard him. As foreigner or kinsman.
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Old 3rd April 2006, 10:19 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
Right. I guess, my question was not so much about the kid adapting as it isn't his choice. It's about how the Chinese around him regard him. As foreigner or kinsman.
Yes, China and Japan have very different attitudes toward strangers or foreigners.

First, Japan is an island nation, Japanese get used to being isolated. They do not feel comfortable being together with strangers, worse of all, they do not have much respect for foreigners, no matter you are black or white.

China is very different. Being "Middle Kingdom" on a vast continent, China has a tradition of making friends with everybody. The attitude of treating strangers in ancient China, "四海之内皆兄弟也" ("Within four seas, we are all brothers") is still much the same today. So, would the mainland Chinese treat overseas Chinese as aliens? Definitely NOT!
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Old 3rd April 2006, 10:38 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

In fairness, the Japanese subscribe to a somewhat higher, certainly unique standards of behavior.
As a result, they have a bit of trouble trusting outsiders - rightly or wrongly.

The Chinese, while subscribing to a lower set of common standards, are also more tolerant and open.

But cctlds will do well in both, because both are huge economies with its
own rules and local flavors to support it. and both will likely outlast internet, IDN, etc.
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Old 3rd April 2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

On the SU and YU issue.

The ICANN list was based on an list from the UN which is an ISO Standard. The list was adopted without amendment.

When the original list source is amended then and only then should names be added or deleted to maintain the link with the original source list.
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Old 3rd April 2007, 08:20 PM
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Re: Philosophy of ccTLD's. They come and they go.

IANA is seeking to review its practices associated with top-level domains which have been revoked from the officially assigned list, and more specifically, top-level domains which have been replaced by a new country code.

A select list of ISO 3166-1 alterations that help illustrate the dimension of the issue are:

Zaire's ("ZR") renaming to the Democratic Republic of the Congo ("CD").

The breakup of the Soviet Union resulting in the code "SU" being replaced with codes for the independent states, such as "RU", "BY", and "UA". Every former soviet state has a new code, which been allocated to an operator by IANA.

East Timor's code changing from "TP" to "TL".

Czechoslovakia’s ("CS") division into the Czech Republic ("CZ") and Slovakia ("SK").

The remaining components of Yugoslavia ("YU") becoming Serbia and Montenegro ("CS"). Following a referendum, in September 2006 Serbia and Montenegro further split into two independent identities Serbia (“RS”) and Montenegro (“ME”).

The ISO 3166 standard also has codes which are "exceptionally reserved", in essence meaning they are special allocations that may be used under certain circumstances. In that category, IANA presently has delegations for three of these codes:

The United Kingdom ("GB") have elected to use the exceptionally reserved code of UK as its primary ccTLD.

The European Union have been delegated the exceptionally reserved code of EU.

Ascension Island is delegated the exceptionally reserved code of AC.

Whilst IANA has overseen the successful transition of "ZR" to "CD", domains such as "SU" and "TP" still exist in the DNS root.

Some of the relevant issues to consider:

In the event a code is not revoked in a timely manner, there is a risk that its continued use would deprive its new user of a valid country code should it be reallocated. This is highlighted by the case of "CS", which served Czechoslovakia, and later Serbia and Montenegro.

Broadly speaking, each country or autonomous territory has a single top-level domain at their disposal. It may be considered inequitable that certain countries have more than one such domain available. This is highlighted by East Timor (TP and TL) and the United Kingdom (GB and UK), although it should be noted that GB is effectively inactive.

The global policy surrounding the operation of ccTLDs heavily emphasises the role of the local Internet community, local government, and local law. Should a code represent an area that does not align to a present-day country, the matter of which government and law has jurisdiction becomes unclear.

http://icann.org/announcements/annou...-2-05dec06.htm
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