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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 3rd December 2005, 11:40 PM
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Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

I've been at it the last couple of days for a few hours and have noticed that good one word IDNs (jp ovt>50,000) with decent commercial appeal are now very difficult to find.

Compound terms are still available with good ovt, but even those are quickly disappearing in .com and .cn/.jp

I don't remember it anywhere this difficult even 2 months ago. Anyone feel the same?
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Old 4th December 2005, 03:30 AM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Unfortunately I think I should claim resposibility for that
Before I started to write better ways of finding Japanese IDNs I think only a few knew really good techniques.

Also blame Dave he owns the most...
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Old 4th December 2005, 07:32 AM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

It has always baffled me why these names were still available anyway!

When the traditional get rich dot commer is out buying "dictionarywordunrelatedwordanotherunrelateddictionaryword.com" why really good terms in Chinese and Japanese are still available.

Actually, the some Chinese words are going to be worth more than conventional dot coms. This is not simply because of the demographics or economics but the awesome power of the language itself. Chinese is the least ambigious language on earth. If you have the crucial term, there are no plurals or tenses to worry about. The only way anyone can get next to you is by adding another word, and as you know that kills the thing dead. There is also not going to be much scope for typo either. Mistype a glyph and you are not going to end up anywhere that is vaguely related.

The really valuable names are not going to be single characters, but single keystoke characters. We definitely have some of those. Words that be generated by a single keystroke are going to be worth a fortune!

Anyway, back on the availability front, that is the nature of markets and speculation. You have to get in when demand is low and sell after it increases significantly. Your observations suggest that the time for buying is passing and the time for selling is coming, which means that we all stand to make profits. Generally, those that got in earliest will make the most.

The market will then go onto to develop, so that the value of individual investment drops, but the breadth of the market increases substantially. More obscure terms will attract interest from buyers. If these keymarkets are getting out reach, then I would suggest that you move on to other opportunities. It is still bloody nigh impossible to get a local character translation for most of the South Asian Languages. I found some terms yesterday and booked them, but it will probably be sometime before I figure out what they mean. Here only a handful of term get Overture and there is no local tool, so Google is still the main measure and a score of 50K on Goolge is very high in most languages. The terms available are really exceptional. In Chinese, even I was too late to pick up some of the stuff I am getting in Indic scripts.

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Old 4th December 2005, 10:24 AM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Dave, from what I gathered at domain.club.tw, the more general names are indeed considered less appealing due to the ambiguity.

Has anyone been watching this site : http://www.nameclub.com/index.php?s=...3df70a4e510e1&
I don't speak arab and I don't know of any good t-engines, there should be useful information on there.
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Old 4th December 2005, 11:03 AM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
Dave, from what I gathered at domain.club.tw, the more general names are indeed considered less appealing due to the ambiguity.

Has anyone been watching this site : http://www.nameclub.com/index.php?s=...3df70a4e510e1&
I don't speak arab and I don't know of any good t-engines, there should be useful information on there.
Just goes to show that there is growing interest in Domain Speculation amongst the Chinese and Arab online communities. The Chinese at least seem very open to the IDN idea.

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Old 4th December 2005, 01:55 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Actually the one's that seem the most non interested in IDNs are Westerners....
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Old 4th December 2005, 07:00 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
Actually the one's that seem the most non interested in IDNs are Westerners....
That really isn't as surprising to me anymore as to why.

After watching them recieve all of this information, microsoft's stance, icann's actions, browser development, search introductions, mass idn registrations, monetizing adwords and search functions, ect, ect. After them getting all of this information and then have them say it won't work is easy to understand.

IDN's are a threat. Plain and simple. Sex becomes 性, φύλο, 성, секс, ect, ect. No longer will all of these nations need to rely on english keywords and english content. Their need's will be met, I expect to see massive traffic drops from these hot keyword english domains as soon as the idn's become fully functionable.

The simple fact that they keep going back to "phishing" as thier only defense just shows of their lack of knowledge and fear of foriegn languages. Phishing! I mean come on. It is the same as using part of say a french word, mix with and english word, and then us not being able to tell the difference.

I tried to register an idn yesterday that is totally ambigious. Just to see if it's still possible. The domain is хxx.com Just looking at it you would not be able to tell the difference. The fact is the first two letters are "Cryllic' and the last is latin character. It's shows available yet you can't register it.

Oh well, just means more domains for me. And when that day comes early next year that idn's are getting massive consistent traffic I also expect to see a massive rush by the early dissenters to register a remaining name or two, only to find that we have entire lists just prepared for that day. THEY ARE GONE!

Anyways sorry for the digression.
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Old 4th December 2005, 07:25 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Yes, you are quite right. These fools felt because they had a top gTLD they had a global audience and that as the internet expanded globally so would their traffic. They totally forgot the little thing about linguistic relevance. Just make the buggers learn English appears to be the attitude. Well, it just won't work.

The one that really cracks me up though is the dot IN situation. All these fools really thing that the entire sub-continent is fluent in English. Well today I registered this little lot:


xn--3rca4hb4dub4c2g.com ತಂತ್ರಾಂಶ computer Kannada
xn--3rcf4e5a1dn7fxf.com ಅಂತರ್ಜಾಲ internet Kannada
xn--nscd0b.com ಗಣಕ computer Kannada
xn--jpcd8d.com పని business/job Telugu
xn--6ocq1ff.com జాతి sex Telugu
xn--hpcqx9b1a.com దేశము domain Telugu
xn--9ocv4d.com పాట music Telugu
xn--d9b1dvd.com ਲੋਕ people Punjabi
xn--g9b2c.com ਘਰ home Punjabi
xn--d9b2a3dual.com ਕਹਾਣੀ Portal Punjabi
xn--y9bif6g2a.com ਪ੍ਰੇਮ love Punjabi

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Old 5th December 2005, 08:46 AM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

It's time to develop some of our best names ? I was thinking, how much would it cost to launch an IDN-site in China with promotion and all, maybe just payed links at the largest chinese portals ?? Just think about it, if the market is not active yet, why don't wé activate it ?
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Old 5th December 2005, 09:39 AM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
It's time to develop some of our best names ? I was thinking, how much would it cost to launch an IDN-site in China with promotion and all, maybe just payed links at the largest chinese portals ?? Just think about it, if the market is not active yet, why don't wé activate it ?
I think that is obviously the way we should be thinking. Do you have the capability to develop a Chinese or Japanese Site? I have some really excellent names that would be suitable for this job and we all ready have some traffic data from Sedo. Let me know what you have got in mind and we will try to select a suitable name for this.

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Old 5th December 2005, 03:50 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

I was thinking in the lines of a collective effort to create a site around a group of IDN's, optimally with business plan, investors, the whole nine yards.
If a site get's big as I see it then I am simply short of knowledge to sustain it.



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Old 5th December 2005, 04:37 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
I was thinking in the lines of a collective effort to create a site around a group of IDN's, optimally with business plan, investors, the whole nine yards.
If a site get's big as I see it then I am simply short of knowledge to sustain it.
Well speaking personally, beyond putting up information in very incompressible Chinese I wouldn't have the knowledge to start it.

It would be nice to think that there were Venture Capitalist queuing up to sink money into this but frankly most of these guys just want a big cut once the business plan is shown to be viable. Contrary to popular opinion, most are risk adverse!

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Old 5th December 2005, 05:42 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

What if we are the investors ?

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Old 7th December 2005, 04:56 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Seriously, there should be enough trust by now to make it work....right ?
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Old 7th December 2005, 05:20 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
Seriously, there should be enough trust by now to make it work....right ?
Its not an issue of trust. We are not currently in the domain development business and do not consider that we have the resources available for this kind of investment at the current time.

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Old 7th December 2005, 06:53 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Would you say that if the resources were shared by a rather large group of trustees who all rely heavily on the
development of IDN ?

I don't want to push this to much but we all know that we're just waiting on other people to develop these names,
development is key here and who got the know-how to develop IDN 's and to perform SEO on them ? We do..
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Old 7th December 2005, 07:48 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
Would you say that if the resources were shared by a rather large group of trustees who all rely heavily on the
development of IDN ?

I don't want to push this to much but we all know that we're just waiting on other people to develop these names,
development is key here and who got the know-how to develop IDN 's and to perform SEO on them ? We do..
While I do agree with what you are saying.  There are already domains developed in idn's.  Several with very high traffic rankings.

The problem is it's sort of a "which came first" sort of scenerio.  Traffic<-->Website.

This is what the large companies are waiting on.  They want to see traffic on these domains.  Until there is a popular browser, (ahem...), that allows this, the big-boys will wait.

I have stated before that the keyword domain buying in the 90's is the same scenerio.  People came in bought domains, these domains got tons of traffic, and then they made the big dollars.  It will be the same situation as this, as history repeats itself.

I get pissed when I read that these first domainers where geniuses and blah, blah, blah.  They were opportunists, there is a big difference.  Being a savy investor that studies trends and invests in risky ventures that pay off is one thing, being in the right place at the right time is another.

To add that even some of these original domains purchased then are still parked, they haven't even touched them. Yeah, geniuses indeed.

If I hadn't been 15 then and thinking only of "one thing" it would have been a different story.  Damn hormones.  ;D

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Old 7th December 2005, 10:02 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
Would you say that if the resources were shared by a rather large group of trustees who all rely heavily on the
development of IDN ?

I don't want to push this to much but we all know that we're just waiting on other people to develop these names,
development is key here and who got the know-how to develop IDN 's and to perform SEO on them ? We do..
I would agree agree with what you are saying. But in terms of development I would suggest that the route forward would be with Olney who is Tokyo and the domain that should be developed in the short-term are Japanese. Of course I have not talked with Olney and I don't know how open he is to going down that route. A lot depends on how ready the market is , what skills you have and which domains you want to develop.

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Old 8th December 2005, 03:10 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

I think type-ins constitute less then 20% of the total traffic, that would mean development and promotion are the most important factors for success.

What is Olney's opinion ?

(playing paratrooper on my uncle's x86 was all I did back then...unluckily)

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Old 8th December 2005, 03:38 PM
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Re: Good Chinese/Japanese IDNs dwindling quickly

Well, I think we need to keep in touch with the way dot com developed.

Most of the best domains were registered very early on. It would have been at least 5 years before there was any sensible way of monetizing the traffic apart from launching into full blown ecommerce, the model for which was still evolving. In the early day there was no paid parking, probably nothing much in the way of affiliate programmes and getting online payment systems to work would have been a nightmare.

Many of these kinds of problems are going to apply to IDN. OK, the internet has taken off in China and Japan, but we don't have universal browser resolution yet for these kinds of domains and realistically that will probably take another 12 months to be significantly resolved. There is still very little in the way of paid parking services, but I guess there will be no shortage of affiliate programs in Japan.

Developing a webiste needs skills that we take for granted, but we really don't have in regard to the Far East, unless you are Olney. There are one or two other players out there, but most of them have yet to be convinced of the IDN market.

For my part, this is why I have tried so hard to get the IDN message out and have cut others in on a lot of useful information. I understand that we need developers and SEO types out there selling this idea to the big end users before this starts to really gain serious momentum.

My short-term objective now are to rationalise my portfolio and hopefully to get enough type-in to start to cover the renewal cost, which in my case are quite significant. I am even happy to sell a few domains to help finance all this. I don't have the IT skills or the language skills or knowledge of local markets to start getting involved in development at this stage. Whilst, I see development as a key to maximizing revenues in the medium term, it is not going assist with cashflow in the short-term.

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