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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2006, 04:50 PM
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NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

google in china the big disconnect(nytimes)

http://spaces.msn.com/ckthewise/Blog/cns!A5FAFA6D91F5F36C!560.entry

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 21st April 2006 at 04:55 PM..
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Old 21st April 2006, 05:57 PM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
google in china the big disconnect(nytimes)

http://spaces.msn.com/ckthewise/Blog/cns!A5FAFA6D91F5F36C!560.entry
Blast you are a smart Harvard grad but i think you should remove articles like these, because as far as i know the chinese members can get in trouble to read political stories and the forum to be banned.

what i mean is that we shouldnt discuss political stuff about if what google does is right or not or to post articles that are so pro-us democracy/economy policy in this forum if we want this forum to continue being "online" on China. Many more anti-china articles, one email from a very patriotic guy, and bye bye idnforum from chinese members from mainland china.

At least me i intend to run a chinese forum later this year, and i wouldnt like to mix at all political stuff with domains to avoid giving any single possibility to be banned from the china mainland market. anyway my forum will be in chinese, this one is in english, but maybe later this forum will also have a chinese subforum.

Last edited by idnceo; 21st April 2006 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 21st April 2006, 08:03 PM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

idnceo,

You raise a legitimate and long-standing issue about one's behavior in the face of censorship.

However, in my opinion, we should speak our minds rather than censor ourselves and thus do Big Brother's work for him. If there is a price to pay, then the burden is on him. When we begin to heed Big Brother and curb our behaviour, then what does that make us?

Still, this is a question best addressed here by those who actually live under state censorship.

Regards,
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Old 21st April 2006, 08:12 PM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

Dun worry, it's only a link. Only that site will get affected, it wouldn't affect idnforums.com.
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Old 21st April 2006, 08:57 PM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

I have empathy for those who live in China but my empathy does not entail me conforming to the rules that lead me to empathize with the Chinese in the first place.

This is an international forum, the Chinese goverment does not dictate how we conduct business or how we express our thoughts, freedom of speech is not a tradeable value, not now, not ever.
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Old 21st April 2006, 10:33 PM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

There is a reason I didn't repost the article.

There is also a good reason the link is here: this is the single most informative peice of reporting I have seen that outlines the whole history and scheme behind China's internet policy.

In Saudi Arabia, where if you go to a prohibited site you are redirected to a page of the goverment which gives you all the reasons why the page you wanted to access is prohibited.

In China there is a completely arbitrary system that is not transparent and is used by competitors to get the government shut down access to their rivals. Which is what seems to have happend to google. Which why this is an important article to read for anyone who is dealing with the Chinese internet.

Understanding how things work is good for those in business. It has nothing to do with politics.

To quote the Times:
The Great Firewall tends to slow down all traffic coming into the country from the world outside. About 15 percent of the time, Google was simply unavailable in China because of data jams.

That explains why, when I try to access Chinese sites from outside of China, they are so unbearably slow.




More analysis can be found here:
Saudi Arabia: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/saudiarabia/
China: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/china/

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 21st April 2006 at 11:12 PM..
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Old 22nd April 2006, 06:52 AM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
Understanding how things work is good for those in business. It has nothing to do with politics.
Blast, i know this article is about business and technology, but pro-US, which at the end it is based on a needed political structure require to support these practices. the post passively criticizes the banning of certain keywords by the chinese government. im not who to say how the chinese government should behave, if i were a big company trying to do business with china mainland i would do the same. i would apply censorship without hesitation.

anyway as i said this is an english forum, not big deal these links once in a while, but we should focus on domains and not on articles that smells like US propaganda.
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Old 22nd April 2006, 05:52 PM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

Very wise words idnceo!

Wherever I go -- China or USA, whatever I do -- for fun or for work, I absolutely respect and abide by the laws of the country. I don't need to be convinced to do the contrary.

As a matter of fact, there is quite a lot of freedom of speech in China although there are still rooms to improve. If you know the Chinese culture and have lived in China in the last several years, you certainly will give a huge credit to the Chinese government in adopting the Rule of Law and reforming the country's legal system and encouraging entrepreneurship. Google, Microsoft and Yahoo, together with numerous foreign business in China also deserve credit for transforming China by way of cooperation and not confrontation.

But criticism is always needed in helping governments to do better.
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Last edited by Giant; 22nd April 2006 at 07:48 PM..
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Old 23rd April 2006, 02:46 AM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

Quote:
Originally Posted by idnceo
Blast you are a smart Harvard grad but i think you should remove articles like these, because as far as i know the chinese members can get in trouble to read political stories and the forum to be banned.
As you may know, Wiki is also banned in China. But, I will continue to post links to Wiki, sorry.

Also, I'm not so smart, as I haven't been in China, only Japan and Korea, so I need to learn about China more. That is why I like to read about Chinese internet. Sorry if it is troublesome for you.
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Old 23rd April 2006, 04:03 AM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
As you may know, Wiki is also banned in China. But, I will continue to post links to Wiki, sorry.

Also, I'm not so smart, as I haven't been in China, only Japan and Korea, so I need to learn about China more. That is why I like to read about Chinese internet. Sorry if it is troublesome for you.
honestly Blast, i hate US propaganda of lets change the world but making it exactly like us and to make them accept our laws and business policies, but u can post it here. what i respect and i find troublesome is because of the issue for the chinese members and respect for the regulations on other countries -even if i agree or not is irrelevant-. but anyway the world is not only me and i dont feel my opinion or vision is better or worse than any other.

just my opinion. enjoy your "freedom"
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Old 23rd April 2006, 09:02 AM
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Re: NYTimes China: Cultural Differences Online

That being said, this forum holds people of different nationalities and of different creed, unbiasedness and openmindedness is key for the forum's success and for the success of idn's in the free market.

Every person here has to abide by the laws of his/her country and by the forum rules that have been set out by Olney, not any country that is indirectly represented here by the presence of a user holds precedence over the other.

If any person asks me to stop criticizing their government because there's law against that in their country and he/she asks me to respect that I'll kindly ask them to get a grip or get lost.

Conformism, cooperation, let's not mix those terms up.
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