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-   -   IETF draft released - Related Issues. (http://www.idnforums.com/forums/2259-ietf-draft-released-related-issues.html)

Rubber Duck 22nd April 2006 02:28 PM

IETF draft released - Related Issues.
 
I found the following in this link provided by Zfreud which appears to raise some profound issues. It would suggest that more characters may be banned including Dingbats and the notorious Hyphen.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/...xtsteps-05.txt

<<<4.1.1. Elimination of all non-language characters

Unicode characters that are not needed to write words or numbers in
any of the world's languages should be eliminated from the list of
characters that are appropriate in DNS labels. In addition to such
characters as those used for box-drawing and sentence punctuation,
this should exclude punctuation for word structure and other
delimiters: while DNS labels may conveniently be used to express
words in many circumstances, the goal is not to express words (or
sentences or phrases), but to permit the creation of unambiguous
labels with good mnemonic value.

4.1.2. Elimination of word-separation punctuation

The inclusion of the hyphen in the original hostname rules is a
historical artifact from an older, flat, name space. The community
should consider whether it is appropriate to treat it as a simple
legacy property of ASCII names and not attempt to generalize it to
other scripts. We might, for example, not permit claimed equivalents
to the hyphen from other scripts to be used in IDNs. We might even
consider banning use of the hyphen itself in non-ASCII strings or,
less restrictively, strings that contained non-Roman characters.>>>

touchring 22nd April 2006 02:33 PM

Re: IETF draft released - Related Issues.
 
notorious Hyphen -> '-'?

What about the hyphen ?? Many European IDNs use hyphen.

Rubber Duck 22nd April 2006 02:36 PM

Re: IETF draft released - Related Issues.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by touchring
notorious Hyphen -> '-'?

What about the hyphen ?? Many European IDNs use hyphen.

Well it would appear that the suggestion is that it is rendered invalid in non-Latin scripts. At least if John K has his way!

It is will be interesting to know what happens in scripts such as Arabic that won't concactinate and of which most are right to left. Would the ASCII hyphen be banned but the Arabic Hyphen permitted?

blastfromthepast 22nd April 2006 03:58 PM

Re: IETF draft released - Related Issues.
 
Russian consistently uses the hyphen is many words as part of spelling rules.

Example: Санкт-Петербург, St.Petersburg, is always written with a hyphen.

Writing the name of this city without a hyphen is a spelling mistake.

vgemito 22nd April 2006 03:59 PM

Re: IETF draft released - Related Issues.
 
The author(s) of those paragraphs should learn to write clear, understandable English before worrying about hyphens or anything else. Their language is an unmitigated disgrace that we should not forgive for being generated by techies, but recognized for what it is - muddled thinking.

Duck has made my exact response - hyphens actually can save many, if not almost all, Arabic compound terms. They should have better things to do than mess with issues about which they obviously know too little? This is an ignorant initiative that should be roundly shouted down.

Regards,
VGemito

Rubber Duck 22nd April 2006 04:06 PM

Re: IETF draft released - Related Issues.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vgemito
The author(s) of those paragraphs should learn to write clear, understandable English before worrying about hyphens or anything else. Their language is an unmitigated disgrace that we should not forgive for being generated by techies, but recognized for what it is - muddled thinking.

Duck has made my exact response - hyphens actually can save many, if not almost all, Arabic compound terms. Don't they have better things to do than mess with issues about which they obviously know too little? This is an ignorant initiative that should be roundly shouted down.

Regards,
VGemito

This is ICANNs top man in the field writting his findings.;)

blastfromthepast 22nd April 2006 04:18 PM

Re: IETF draft released - Related Issues.
 
Dear Mr. Klensin,

I am writing to you regarding the proposed IDN nextsteps draft.

4.1.2. Elimination of word-separation punctuation

This is a very bad idea. Here are just two examples:

1. Russian consistently uses the ascii hyphen is many words as
part of spelling rules.
Example: Санкт-Петербург, St.Petersburg, the
former capital, is always written with a hyphen. Writing the
name of this city without a hyphen is a spelling mistake.

2. Arabic double word domains won't concactinate without the
Arabic Hyphen.


1.1. Elimination of all non-language characters

"the goal is not to express words (or sentences or phrases),
but to permit the creation of unambiguous labels with good
mnemonic value."

Which is exactly why Symbol and Dingbat domains should be
permitted, as they have been. It is a ethnocentric idea that
Western Symbols like the smiley face, the male and female
signs, and so on, should be removed from the scope, while
Chinese have an huge range of Characters to choose from!

Regards,
Dan.



From: john-ietf@jck.com

Dan,

Two observations...

* The document records suggestions that have been made and the
motivation for them. It does not attempt to identify what is a
good idea and what is not; those are issues for further by
different groups.

* It is intrinsic to the design of naming using the DNS, and the
host table design much earlier, that the desire to write a
particular name in a particular way, or to use a particular
symbol, creates some "right" to do so. In particular, going
very far down the path to "because Unicode has defined a code
point position, I should be able to use that character in a
domain name" creates far more potential for user confusion and
security problems than more conservative approaches. There is
a place for arbitrary naming, or incorporation of every string
that might be useful in the normal world into a naming system,
but that place is arguably not the DNS.

I have copied the IAB and other principal contributors, since
the IAB has asked for community comments on the document. They
may respond further; I'm just an editor.

john


We need to provide as much input as we can on this.


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