IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | idntools | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > IDN Discussions > General Discussion

General Discussion Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 12:08 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,552
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 2950
Rubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enough
All your IDN should belong to us

http://www.circleid.com/posts/200910...andle_on_idns/

..............Avoiding these problems in the move to IDN gTLDs needs to be a priority. One suggestion is for ICANN to allow TLD registrars to reserve IDN gTLDs for current registrants in all available linguistic character sets. "Amazon.com" would then be reserved in every available language for the current registrants. Managing IDN gTLDs under a single standard will avoid the problems I have described. Registrars should be permitted to charge a registrant only when a new IDN gTLD is activated. Reserving the IDN space should cost nothing. In this way IDN gTLDs can be introduced without undermining the Internet's power as a means of communication, a forum of ideas, and a global marketplace.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 12:24 PM
yanni's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,216
iTrader: (34)
Rep Power: 963
yanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to yanni Send a message via Skype™ to yanni
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

refreshing, to say the least.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 12:27 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,552
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 2950
Rubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enough
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni View Post
refreshing, to say the least.
I think you are confused. He is making the same crazy arguments as the Costello brothers!
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 03:03 PM
jose's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,409
iTrader: (48)
Rep Power: 4671
jose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nicejose is just really nice
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Yes, we would have to hand over all our IDNs to the ASCII crowd. Nightmare.
__________________
I am now into iOS and Android app development. Want an app? I might help.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 03:15 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hong Kong / China
Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)
Rep Power: 362
Asiaplay is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Quote:
Avoiding these problems in the move to IDN gTLDs needs to be a priority. One suggestion is for ICANN to allow TLD registrars to reserve IDN gTLDs for current registrants in all available linguistic character sets. "Amazon.com" would then be reserved in every available language for the current registrants. Managing IDN gTLDs under a single standard will avoid the problems I have described.
I have to agree with Rubber Duck on this - the guy is seriously confusing trademark geographical rights and issues, when suggesting any one global body can just decide on who gets the global rights to translated or transliterated into other language domain names / IDNs.

Amazon potentially has the same problem as the recent now renown famous river IDN - it is a real place and in Brazil for example, Amazon is a geographical rain forest / landmass (and I am sure therefore can not be trademarked in Brazil - they frankly just chose the wrong brand name to use for international purposes!).

Really it is embarrassing for his legal firm, that he even brings this idea forward as a Attorny of Law - they are supposed to understand international legal issues and not be lost on things like this (one has to ask is this bias or ignorance on his part).

At best it is a poor attempt to hope that those companies who have lost trademark battles internationally (for rightful legal reasons) can somehow get rights to those via a (perhaps USA) based central body.
Luckily the guy is in a dream world and international law, nor ICANN would even bother with such a silly idea (as it would turn them into international law courts, which is not the role of ICANN).

Why luckily as if you try to apply his logic, even generic IDNs could fall under controvasy and be wrongly granted rights, to one current English domain holder.

I am sure we will see more of these ignorant type posts as corporate players, one by one realise they have messed up and not invested in international trademarks, brands that can be used internationally or IDNs earily enough (i.e. weak attempts at trying to get rights to IDNs that they have no right to even try to obtain).

However there is one interesting point in all this and that is that way too many so called international brands, obviously never planned to be international and have not done the ground-work they should have to have control over their brands within an international marketplace.

At last they start to realise that their so called nternational marketers were basing logic on local marketing ideals (i.e. their brands are not protected in languages outside of English letters and now can't be).
They are suddenly waking up and thinking - well, how do I market in places like China, Korea, Russia etc. etc. when we have missed the boat.

Some of his other arguments he raises are just plain silly and are not limited to gTLDs nor IDNs - so shouldn't even be in the discussion he was raising on gIDNs.
e.g. governmental control of internet freedom, has nothing to do with gTLD IDNs (this can and does already happen - every Govt. has the right to inforce it's laws within the bounds of international agreements it has entered into and in line with laws that exist within it's own boundaries).

Onward and upward and let's leave the guys like poor Mr R. to their pipe dreams...

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: all I can say is thank god ccTLD exist and are going IDN now, so that USA corporate pressure can not be used to control international IDN rights e.g. indirectly internet control, done by existing gTLD registrars, that on the whole are USA based entities.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 03:27 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,552
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 2950
Rubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enough
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Good post Asia play but perhaps more productive if you commented there.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 04:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,806
iTrader: (19)
Rep Power: 497
Giant is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

And I am sorry that a practicing... by David Wrixon – Oct 22, 2009 8:34 AM PDT

"And I am sorry that a practicing Attorney cannot appraise himself of the basic legal background before opining in a manner that is only going to confuse his potential clients."


Good point RD!
__________________
@

Dot Com is King. IDN.com will soon be king.
@
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 04:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hong Kong / China
Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)
Rep Power: 362
Asiaplay is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Perhaps Rubberduck... but really circleid have to realise they are a local pressure group only and hold no more credibility than a pressure group outside of anywhere else in the world, that has a loaded agenda (e.g. similar to one say based in outer mongolia).

They can rave, but the more they go off the edge and ignore international rights, the less credibility any arguments they raise can even become considered (or even continue to become read).

Personally I think the "real" players in the international environment that follow English posts (including ICANN) follow forums like idnforums and do not see circleid's own site as a credible voice - just another localised blogger, who is pushing their own vested interests to a degree it becomes laughable (yes and I know who is behind them).

Really their poor attempts cannot overcome international trademark law or the role of ICANN in admistrating IDNs and domain (not in policing or deciding on international trademark disputes).

Basically, they don't deserve to be seen as anything more credible than yet another USA centric pressure group, that is one small voice in the international world of IDN discussions (local, local, local... and of no international interest).
i.e. my time spent to bother making open an account to post to their silly blog post (argue with baised ignorant local folk on internatonal issues they choose to ignore logic on in a forum they control and can sensor), is a waste of my time!
So I will refrain to making remarks here

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: but I understand why you posted there (and a balancing comment was needed)... really I just feel sad for Mr R. - he just comes across a sad idiot, who has lost the plot and anyone who uses logic will have to start wondering if they should bother listening to anything that is posted on their website, after reading this post (yes, that remark was made in hope that ICANN is reading this and continues to place circleid in the box they should be in - local. local, local baised pressure group only).

Do feel free to reference our forum thread here, if you post there again though - perhaps they would like to post here instead!

Last edited by Asiaplay; 22nd October 2009 at 04:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 06:07 PM
yanni's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,216
iTrader: (34)
Rep Power: 963
yanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to yanni Send a message via Skype™ to yanni
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
I think you are confused. He is making the same crazy arguments as the Costello brothers!
Yup, confused all-right.

right post, wrong thread.

I promise I will not post again before I've finished my first jug of coffee, in the midst of reading three articles at the same time.

Carry on, please.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 22nd October 2009, 06:41 PM
Drewbert's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,815
iTrader: (20)
Rep Power: 0
Drewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgy
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Keep on the pills and ointment Yanni. It'll clear up in the long run.

This guy is about 9 years too late coming up with this idea.
__________________
It's all jaded style to me.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 12:32 AM
sbe18's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,197
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 628
sbe18 is on a distinguished roadsbe18 is on a distinguished roadsbe18 is on a distinguished roadsbe18 is on a distinguished roadsbe18 is on a distinguished roadsbe18 is on a distinguished road
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Nokia is suing Apple today....

our Ovi store sucks.....but let's sue Apple to slow them down a little...

relative to this thread...

apple Records and Apple computers will be suing and buying
in the IDN space commencing nov 16 ????

Washington state apple growers.....???

apples in Japanese 'ringo'.....
will Ringo Starr and Apple Records go to the sumo mat ??? LOL

Animated...Celebrity death match for IDN's...

Ringo Starr vs Steve Jobs

the Liverpool drummer vs the liver transplant survivor....

RD........get those fingers limbered up.....
the IP lawyer sludge on English language supremacy is 'natural law' starts Nov 16...


can't wait for the IBM guys trying to figure out if some Arabic or Hebrew sites........as MBI acronyms are infringing....

noun/adjective vs adjective/noun infringements too ????
France vs Spain cage match ???

The Scots failed in dozens of law suits to get US whiskeys...to use
whisky....

-------------
this is all about the shock that the IDN tsunami is here....
It is also dawning on the IP lawyers that their clients are going to fire them for not warning about 60% of the planet is going to keep searching in their own language and now will find site names that work in those languages.....where did the traffic go ??? hmmm

Morse code for ham radio hacks is dead...no longer on the test...

so SOS now is same old shit on ham chat.....
25 years ago when serving as a sub officer....it was save our ship....

ver 3.0 for the IP law sludge.....save our syntax ??? grin...

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 04:38 AM
Clotho's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 755
iTrader: (19)
Rep Power: 1270
Clotho will become famous soon enoughClotho will become famous soon enoughClotho will become famous soon enoughClotho will become famous soon enoughClotho will become famous soon enoughClotho will become famous soon enoughClotho will become famous soon enough
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

I found that article to be uninformed, out of date and often out context. It reminded me of the ' Series of Tubes' statement made by Senator Ted Stevens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_of_tubes
The article states that R. Shawn Gunnarson is a lawyer so I thought I would find out a bit more about the type of law he practices. R. Shawn Gunnarson http://www.kmclaw.com/attorney_profiles.php?empid=207
Imagine my horror to discover that he has served as Senior Counsel to U.S. Senator Robert F. Bennett, advising him on issues regarding telecommunications, cyber security, Internet policy and governance!
I was pondering the irony of this when I came across Putt’s Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putt's_law

Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand.

Between people like Mr. Gunnarson and organizations like ICANN it is starting to look like Archibald Putt nailed it.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 03:28 PM
Zak Muscovitch's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 188
Zak Muscovitch is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Here is the solution to the "Hindi Amazon.com problem".....

A UDRP....

Amazon.com (the ASCII version) would have to prove that the Hindi version was registered in bad faith....The would likely win if the Hindi version web site was populated by bookstore PPC's, but would lose if the Hindi version was a web site about travel to the Amazon...just for example...
__________________
www.DNattorney.com
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 03:33 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,552
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 2950
Rubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enough
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

If Amazon Bookstores are concerned, their first step should be to hire an Attorney that has the foggiest idea what he is talking about. I think they can already eliminate one lawyer from a prospective list of candidates.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 04:11 PM
phio's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arctic Circle
Posts: 1,540
iTrader: (31)
Rep Power: 485
phio is an unknown quantity at this pointphio is an unknown quantity at this pointphio is an unknown quantity at this pointphio is an unknown quantity at this pointphio is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak Muscovitch View Post

Amazon.com (the ASCII version) would have to prove that the Hindi version was registered in bad faith....The would likely win if the Hindi version web site was populated by bookstore PPC's, but would lose if the Hindi version was a web site about travel to the Amazon...just for example...
http://www.Амазонка.com. I registered it to focus on Russians traveling to the Amazon Rainforest and River. Although it is not completely developed, I plan on putting up travel booking information in Russian for Rainforest trips and trips to Ecuador, Peru and Brazil. I have no intention of competing in any way with Amazon.com, it didn't even enter my mind. To me the Amazon Rainforest is more widely known throughout the world, in all languages, than the book/item seller that is popular in some western countries. To me it is strictly a GEO domain name, and I wouldn't think of promoting it otherwise.
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 04:19 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,552
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 2950
Rubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enoughRubber Duck will become famous soon enough
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Amazon gained huge recognition in part because they decided to opt their branding on a well known term. The flip side of course is that they can never have total ownership of that term, even if they are American.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 05:01 PM
Zak Muscovitch's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 188
Zak Muscovitch is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Sometimes companies like Amazon and Cheung Kong need to be reminded that they named their company after the River, not the other way around.....
__________________
www.DNattorney.com
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 06:12 PM
Drewbert's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,815
iTrader: (20)
Rep Power: 0
Drewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgy
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Quote:
Originally Posted by phio View Post
To me the Amazon Rainforest is more widely known throughout the world, in all languages, than the book/item seller that is popular in some western countries.
And FAR MORE IMPORTANT to the world than an ecommerce site.

amazon.com could disappear in a stock market crash tomorrow.

Tough.

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

The amazon rain forest CANNOT be allowed to disappear.
__________________
It's all jaded style to me.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 23rd October 2009, 06:12 PM
Drewbert's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,815
iTrader: (20)
Rep Power: 0
Drewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgyDrewbert is a tad dodgy
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
The flip side of course is that they can never have total ownership of that term, even if they are American.
Not that they won't make an attempt, of course!
__________________
It's all jaded style to me.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 23rd November 2009, 07:35 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 0
omegagal is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: All your IDN should belong to us

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay View Post
Perhaps Rubberduck... but really circleid have to realise they are a local pressure group only and hold no more credibility than a pressure group outside of anywhere else in the world, that has a loaded agenda (e.g. similar to one say based in outer mongolia).

They can rave, but the more they go off the edge and ignore international rights, the less credibility any arguments they raise can even become considered (or even continue to become read).

Personally I think the "real" players in the international environment that follow English posts (including ICANN) follow forums like idnforums and do not see circleid's own site as a credible voice - just another localised blogger, who is pushing their own vested interests to a degree it becomes laughable (yes and I know who is behind them).

Really their poor attempts cannot overcome international trademark law or the role of ICANN in admistrating IDNs and domain (not in policing or deciding on international trademark disputes).

Basically, they don't deserve to be seen as anything more credible than yet another USA centric pressure group, that is one small voice in the international world of IDN discussions (local, local, local... and of no international interest).
i.e. my time spent to bother making open an account to post to their silly blog post (argue with baised ignorant local folk on internatonal issues they choose to ignore logic on in a forum they control and can sensor), is a waste of my time!
So I will refrain to making remarks here

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: but I understand why you posted there (and a balancing comment was needed)... really I just feel sad for Mr R. - he just comes across a sad idiot, who has lost the plot and anyone who uses logic will have to start wondering if they should bother listening to anything that is posted on their website, after reading this post (yes, that remark was made in hope that ICANN is reading this and continues to place circleid in the box they should be in - local. local, local baised pressure group only).

Do feel free to reference our forum thread here, if you post there again though - perhaps they would like to post here instead!
And who is it that is behind Circle ID? Great posts by the way.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:19 PM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy idns
domain name lawyer
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54