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Old 27th October 2009, 03:31 PM
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Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1256...LEFTTopStories

Web Alphabet Set to Change

SEOUL -- The World Wide Web is about to start using the languages of the world.

Leaders of the private body that oversees the basic design of the Internet are expected to decide at a meeting here Friday to let Web addresses be expressed in characters other than those of the Roman alphabet. Already, portions of a Web address can be written in other languages. But the suffix, such as the "com" after the dot, must be typed in Roman letters.

The change will allow the suffix -- known as a top-level domain in the architecture of the Internet -- to be expressed in 17 other alphabets. They include traditional and simplified Chinese characters, Russian Cyrillic, Korean Hangul and Hebrew. Dozens of other alphabets are likely to be added in coming years.

That means computer users will be able to type or input a full Web address without the need for Roman letters. Web site designers will be able to use a consistent character set on a Web page without, for instance, having to resort to Roman letters to portray a link to another page.

Authorities who oversee top-level domains in their home countries could begin accepting applications next month.

Making it happen has taken six years of discussion by the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, or Icann, and technical work by the Internet Engineering Task Force, both independent non-profit organizations that endeavor to preserve the universality of the data network, which got started as an offshoot of a U.S. military network in the 1960s.

"The statistics show that over half of the users of the Internet today don't use the Roman alphabet in their first language," says Rod Beckstrom, chief executive of Icann. "It's an issue of national pride in some cases and cultural identity."

Icann's directors and advisors are meeting in Seoul this week to wrestle with some of the final technical issues. The thorniest is what to do with characters that look the same but mean something different, which is particularly difficult with Chinese, the language that may someday be one of the most heavily used for Internet addresses.

"The program is very likely to get approved as a whole," Mr. Beckstrom says. "There are simply details that are being negotiated."

In China, Web sites generally use roman letters to spell Chinese words out in the Hanyu Pinyin system, the Western alphabet transliteration of Chinese characters. But the system has also led to some domain names that are a series of numbers that rhyme with Chinese words.

Peter Lu, managing director of China IntelliConsulting, said the change will boost Web use in China. Switching from Chinese characters at the start of an address to Roman characters for the ".com" or the ".gov" is cumbersome.

But he said it would have made a bigger difference 10 years ago when Internet usage was starting out in the country. "Now, more and more Chinese know English or at least, are used to using Pinyin as a substitute," he said.

Elsewhere, the importance of the change in Web addresses may depend on how much people type out an address versus finding it from a search engine or portal service. South Korean Web users, for instance, rely heavily on two portal companies that allow Korean-language searches and present not just Web sites but news, videos and other content from a single request.

"I think the decision is unlikely to bring about huge changes for users," says Lee Wang-sang, an Internet analyst at Woori Securities in Seoul. "But there will be some competition between companies to obtain popular Korean words for addresses."

—Sue Feng in Beijing contributed to this article
Write to Evan Ramstad at evan.ramstad@wsj.com
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Old 27th October 2009, 03:46 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

"But there will be some competition between companies to obtain popular Korean words for addresses."


By that - they surely must be referring to the aftermarket rather than simple hand regs. I'm pretty sure that this will be the case with ALL languages at some point in the future. What a shock a lot of people are going to get when they realise that certain domains have already been registered many years back.

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Old 27th October 2009, 04:06 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

@Alex...
Yeah - IDN.kr is pretty cleaned out, from what I have seen from my own research (and Pinyin option does not seem to work so well for Korean - actually even for Chinese is limited and often confusing)...

I have noticed that the majority of good Korean.kr keyword IDNs are owned by search engines, registrars or agencies who "rent" them out on a montly basis - mostly as frame in frame of the renter's site (bit like an alternative to PPC).

So I suspect what remains outside those owners for korean.kr (i.e. first IDN.IDN for Korean) will be very competitive after IDN.IDN is released.

Cheers - Asiaplay
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Old 27th October 2009, 04:11 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

What I found most interesting about the WSJ article was that they didn't mention CCTld's anywhere. All they mentioned was .com and .gov
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Old 27th October 2009, 04:18 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay View Post
@Alex...
Yeah - IDN.kr is pretty cleaned out, from what I have seen from my own research (and Pinyin option does not seem to work so well for Korean - actually even for Chinese is limited and often confusing)...

I have noticed that the majority of good Korean.kr keyword IDNs are owned by search engines, registrars or agencies who "rent" them out on a montly basis - mostly as frame in frame of the renter's site (bit like an alternative to PPC).

So I suspect what remains outside those owners for korean.kr (i.e. first IDN.IDN for Korean) will be very competitive after IDN.IDN is released.

Cheers - Asiaplay
My experience of Koreans would support much of what you are saying except the dozy muppets are still joined at the hip with IE6, to the point it is a national catastrophe.
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Old 27th October 2009, 04:21 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clotho View Post
What I found most interesting about the WSJ article was that they didn't mention CCTld's anywhere. All they mentioned was .com and .gov
What is most significant is that this is actually a paper that, whilst not directly targeted at the online community, is read by people that can read.
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Old 27th October 2009, 04:31 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Well having read the comment tab:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1256...abs%3Dcomments

I should be shocked by some of the comments, but hey, what can you expect from the average American "consumer" .....

Highlights (lowlights?) include:

"But at the same time, it gives other countries the ability to spell addresses in their own language, let me explain. The internet is still universal this way. English and Latin Characters are universal in all countries. If you insert all these other addresses it opens the door to websites regular keyboards will not be able to access and so things will be easier to hide. Plus how much more fraud can be hidden within these types of addresses and websites."

my comment: wtf? please translate into english.

"If one goes along with the accepted wisdom that airlines must use English in the cockpit, then doesn't it make sense for a worldwide product as the Internet to use a common character set?"

my comment: wtf?

"A Real bad mistake -- those pushing it are just for "national pride" and not for usability.
The new names will cause a major split in the web. You will have a more "national" or "local" opaque networks you can start derating some of the web companies!"

my comment: yep. nobody really needs domains in their own language, what a stupid thought!

"Only small parochial hobby sites would use this, which are insignificant in the grand scheme of things."

my comment: excellent insight, Mr "BRIAN MACDOUGALL" - you've obviously traveled the globe extensively to bring us that ....

"Once again, we (the US) comes up with something great and some agency has to insert themselves into the fray to bastardize it."

my comment: More American white trash commentary ...
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Old 27th October 2009, 05:29 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

See, I told you they were your average red-necks. This is the paper of the intelligentsia that side of the pond. Scary, isn't it?
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Old 27th October 2009, 05:37 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
What is most significant is that this is actually a paper that, whilst not directly targeted at the online community, is read by people that can read.
Agreed. Having our industry spotlighted in the WSJ equals credibility.
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Old 27th October 2009, 08:06 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

dissolution of empire, colonies, and hegemony is messy...and
often conducted by political hacks.

Us yanks learned it all from the British Exchequer tit.

ICANN is not that dissimilar to poor and incompetant hacks of the
colonial offices of Britain, France, Spain, and Portugal of the past..

It is a shame, you Pommies won't mail biographies of Gladstone, Disraeli, Churchill, Chamberlin ??, Wilson ?, Thatcher, Blair, and Gordon to the WSJ or CNN ????

Your own OxBridge elite....can't even get corruption for castle moat maintenance correct....

At least our shaggers fly down to Argentina for a squirt

and the enlistment of tarts and bullet bra secretaries was invented in 1940's not on Madison Avenue but well documented in "The City" ..

More embarrassing, is your Fleet street press acceptance of Madonna's Michigan twang... transformed........
now what ...Newcastle accent.....
what is up with that bullshit ?????



Britain's failures and farces in Egypt, Palestine, Transjordan, Iraq coups by the month, Iran coups....yet nicely done contercoups with the shah..1953,
Afghanistan, India (Raj) ...Amritsar massacre..., Malaysia, Boer wars, Irish insurections....1922, and Bloody Sunday in the early 1970's...Sudan....and playboy states in the Gulf.

Let alone 100 years of opium to China... a playbook for Escobar in Colombia no less...
Every Chinese MBA classmate of mine resents the UK 10x more than the US in the context of Chinese history.

They view the Opium wars as a humiliation...
They view the Korean war as a misreading of PRC/ Soviet intent to follow UN votes.

A certainly no pass for Rhodesia.....to Zimbabwe

France...Vietnam, French Guyana, west Africa...

Spain.......say no more....400 years of incompetent balance of church and state , and ecological scavenging...

Portugal.......Brazil.....success...........Angola/Mozambique failures.

Holland.....Indonesian provincial corruption

US.....screw ups......Phillipines...Cuba....Vietnam.
success......South Korea , West Germany/ Cold war , Japan to western liberal democracy

Iraq......at least a Shiite democracy that is NOT anti-Western..
served on a platter for Chinese oil interests no less.

likely to be viewed as a South Korea- like victory in 10 years.
but still view Bush II as a moron...



And so if the Internet was ICANN and run by the UK, would this process have been smoother...faster...cleaner.....more efficient....


DARPA to NASA to Dept of Commerce to ICANN for a military grade communications network to be used by 4 billion in one generation....
and from PC's to mobile phones in 10 years...

and to push IPv6 and DNSSEC all at the same time.....

Not an 'F or a D........

With 9/11 in the mix , to allow NSA gov counter intell to use electronic countermeasures as needed.........

I would give ICANN a B
Microsoft .........an F
Verisign........ a C ......now that DelBianco is out front with dot com's will be conclusively idn.idn variants through the GTLD process ..


But Chinese trust dot com.......and they will trust idn.com......and they
will be skeptical of idn.cn... because of the govt.


KR is on track....

seems that JP is on track.....but the IDN cctld will be managed by a new
acronym designated by the gov., with JPRS oversight it seems.


dot DE..........Germans are simply giddy that everything works now ...


It is the EU motherfuckers in Brussels that are going to screw the pooch with the other 17 languages....

so to close.........Please continue to beat Belgium consistently in all
UEFA Nations and Club matches..........

It is time for the G-7.........to let China in....really to the G-8 , and be done with it....

they are sitting on 3 Trillion........


thanks ........

rant complete.....

3 cuppa's this am.... (grin)

Steve
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Old 27th October 2009, 08:46 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

I wouldn't attempt to suggest that the British Empire was a superior model. The British Empire is now history, Britain has successfully moved on after a very long painful process. I just feel that the Americans should be learning more from our mistakes rather than simply repeating them on a much bigger scale.
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Old 27th October 2009, 11:43 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Steve, why don't you get it off your chest...
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Old 28th October 2009, 12:05 AM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Yeah. Don't hold back. We can hack it.
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Old 28th October 2009, 01:04 AM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
I wouldn't attempt to suggest that the British Empire was a superior model. The British Empire is now history, Britain has successfully moved on after a very long painful process. I just feel that the Americans should be learning more from our mistakes rather than simply repeating them on a much bigger scale.

What was one of your favourite quotes?- Americans will exhaust every option until they finally get it right?

Something like that. :D
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Old 28th October 2009, 07:52 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Lol - all I have to say is when I have to help my g/f interpret American English sometimes (and god knows she has better English than me as a native anyway)... I just get this blank look on my face and say... while honey... who the hell knows what that means... if someone had used a dictionary and grammar rules, I might have been able to help.... perhaps we ask Goofy or Donald Duck for a comment... "whats up doc!"...

Opps - did I spill the beans that I often find American English to be illogical...

Ok - jokes aside... the WSJ is being too biased and needs to wake up (how can these publications be called credible, one has to ask if they really offer a balanced view or biased objectives - sigh!)

Cheers All - onward and upward, Asiaplay

PS: why am I on idnforums at 3.50am, I have to ask myself as well...
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Old 28th October 2009, 08:04 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Perhaps the WSJ needs to consult with Bugs Bunny.
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Old 28th October 2009, 08:16 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaplay View Post

PS: why am I on idnforums at 3.50am, I have to ask myself as well...
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Old 28th October 2009, 08:42 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

LOL - pulling on my bugs bunny suit... hahaa - ya all cracking me up now... damn seems I have been expelled from early moring exercise again... haha... cheers all zzzzzzzz, Asiaplay
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Old 28th October 2009, 09:51 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

thanks...guys...

switched back to green Sencha tea...

need to be balanced as I root against the Yankees in the World Series.


that Irish Breakfast ....if you brew 4 cups with 5 bags is a monster...
anyway...

anticipating ....screeds in the press that the Chinese/Russians are going off the grid..

oh well......

while it is on my mind...
my nephew during the summer send me a gift box of tea from London....

Irish bfast, English bfast, Scottish bfast, Earl Grey, Prince of Wales ...
Darjeelings, Ceylons, Kenyans...


No Welsh bfast ?????

a little sprinkle of coal dust and an 85 syllable name is not acceptable for export ?

(grin)

Steve






Steve
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Old 28th October 2009, 10:33 PM
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Re: Wall Street Journal - Web Alphabet Set to Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbe18 View Post

need to be balanced as I root against the Yankees in the World Series.
World Series .. :p


Quote:


No Welsh bfast ?????

a little sprinkle of coal dust and an 85 syllable name is not acceptable for export ?
Unfortunately there aren't enough consonants to fully describe it!
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