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IDN Newbies IDN domain newbie questions like What is an IDN domain, what are idners, how do you use punycode, is there a Japanese sedo etc. Since this is a new market please don't hesitate to ask questions...

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Old 4th November 2009, 07:05 AM
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When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

Hi, I've been sitting on krüger.no a couple of years now, I bought it because I wanted to use it for my familys e-mail (our last name is Krüger). But because big e-mail providers such as Google has limited support and Hotmail has no support for IDNs, as well as limited support in some mail-clients aswell I've not yet dared to start using it because most of my friends are still using these mail-providers.

I could use the code, but it's not a wanted scenario becuase it's rather hard for people to remember it.

So when do you think we'll see full support for IDN-domains from these people?
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Old 4th November 2009, 07:59 AM
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Re: When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

IDN e-mail is still under development, as I know there is still no standard for it
You can read about IDN e-mail here
http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/eai-charter.html
http://www.idnnews.com/?tag=idn-e-mail
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Old 4th November 2009, 08:24 AM
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Re: When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

Regarding IDN email addresses, there are two categories:

1. ascii@krüger.no (example johannes@krüger.no)

This already works if the mail client supports punycode conversion. Nothing further is needed on the MTA (mail server) side. No standards need to be changed - mail clients simply need to integrate punycode conversion in the same way that web browsers already have. In other words, if your mail client will decode johannes@krüger.no send the mail to johannes@xn--krger-lva.no then the mail will reach it's destination assuming that there is an MTA (mail server) configured to receive mail on this domain for this user. The last time I checked, gmail did not have an integrated punycode converter... quite sad, actually.


2. unicode@krüger.no (example søren@krüger.no)

This requires an update to the standards that MTAs (mail server) use, in order for a multi-byte username (søren) to be looked up from the user database, because the network mail protocols are 7-bit (ascii only). So, if your mail client would decode søren@krüger.no and send a mail to xn--sren-gra@xn--krger-lva.no then the username would really need to be stored in the database as "xn--sren-gra" and not "søren". In this case, the mail would reach it's destination. However, storing the username as punycode would not work in many cases due to the various databases which store usernames for MTAs (mail servers), and they way usernames are populated into those databases as well as shared with various other enterprise wide applications (MTAs are not the only consumers of an enterprise username storage database).

Even when the MTA standards are finally updated to multi-byte network transmission, there will very likely be many ignorant, xenophobic enterprises that refuse to update their MTAs (mail servers) with this new capability (or simply keep the 7-bit switch flipped on) because they will mistakenly see it as an easy way to keep out foreign spam.


EDIT: You can even see from above that VBulletin does not consider søren@krüger.no as an email address, because it did not wrap [email] tags around it, but it did wrap around the others...
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Old 4th November 2009, 08:47 AM
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Re: When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

Thank you, that's where I am at aswell. It seems that Gmail has some support for the punycode, because you can use "save draft" and then it converts krüger.no to xn--krger-lva.no and then they can send it, but hotmail does not even support that.

So I guess what I'm wondering is when it'll be standard (I do not mean a "official internet-standard", but just something that most mail providers will support), because untill this is in place I think all IDN-domains are pretty much "useless". Because if you host something under an IDN-domain you'll want to be able to use it for e-mails aswell.

The site where I bought the domain sais that the folowing mail-clients has support:

Outlook 2007
Outlook 2003 and older and Outlook Express works with the verisign plugin (http://www.idnnow.com/)
Opera 9 ->
Mutt 1.5.11 ->

So any guesses or estimates on when we'll see support for this from Gmail, hotmail and the likes?
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Old 4th November 2009, 09:22 AM
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Re: When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zicoz View Post
So any guesses or estimates on when we'll see support for this from Gmail, hotmail and the likes?
All it would take is for one of the major players to add punycode support for the domain portion, then the other players would begin to follow suit. However, I understand why none of them are willing to do it at this point: their users will simply not understand that the domain portion can be multi-byte while the username portion can not. This would cause support requests to rise to an undue level for an issue which is currently unsolvable.
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Old 4th November 2009, 09:45 AM
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Re: When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

ok, thank you very much. Guess I'll just have to wait and see then.
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Old 4th November 2009, 09:53 AM
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Re: When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zicoz View Post
Thank you, that's where I am at aswell. It seems that Gmail has some support for the punycode, because you can use "save draft" and then it converts krüger.no to xn--krger-lva.no and then they can send it, but hotmail does not even support that.

So I guess what I'm wondering is when it'll be standard (I do not mean a "official internet-standard", but just something that most mail providers will support), because untill this is in place I think all IDN-domains are pretty much "useless". Because if you host something under an IDN-domain you'll want to be able to use it for e-mails aswell.

The site where I bought the domain sais that the folowing mail-clients has support:

Outlook 2007
Outlook 2003 and older and Outlook Express works with the verisign plugin (http://www.idnnow.com/)
Opera 9 ->
Mutt 1.5.11 ->

So any guesses or estimates on when we'll see support for this from Gmail, hotmail and the likes?
The bottom line is that this will work in China and Russia because they have the need and political will to make it work. It will never work in the US.
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Old 4th November 2009, 01:36 PM
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Re: When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

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Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
The bottom line is that this will work in China and Russia because they have the need and political will to make it work. It will never work in the US.
You have an abvious anti-US bias here. There is nothing obvious of it not working in the US, which has some of the most diverse population of any country, many of whom regularly use languages besides English. There were local elections here recently, and quite a few of the election loudspeaker trucks weren't broadcasting in English. You'd be happy to know the ballots themselves were prited by the city in Chinese.

As for email, yes it will work, stick to ascii @idn.domain for now, and the more people request it from gmail, the sooner with idn resolving appear in gmail.

We had another IDN issue we bothered google about for a while, and they fixed it. They'll fix this too.
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Old 4th November 2009, 07:29 PM
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Re: When are we going to be able to use IDN-domain names?

RD et al....

I think google, yahoo, MS hotmail now have the incentive to fix it.

they just wrote software to give millions of users ....bullshit addresses with letters/ numbers....

elegant ...no....sufficient at 1999/2000 timeframe....yes....

1- the latin american market alone is a strong reason.

2-non latin script users .....for mobile ad placement or banner placement.


It seems evident that Northern Europe will lead the charge....

well done...

Steve
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