IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > Internationalized Domain Names > Internationalized Domain Name News

Internationalized Domain Name News Recent IDN related News

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 17th November 2009, 08:04 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 93
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 513
zfreud is an unknown quantity at this point
Qunar raises $15MM

http://paidcontent.org/article/419-c...es-15-million/

So these guys are building a great brand in China ('the kayak of china') on the backs of a transliterated romanization of the chinese equivalent of "where are you going?" (哪儿去). it's a great name.

But of course, they don't own the IDN equivalant of their Qunar.com. While they obviously rank high on search for the phrase 哪儿去, it is also obvious they are driving a significant amount of native language search on that phrase....significantly more than the transliteration of 哪儿去 as 'qunar'

http://www.google.com/insights/searc...&geo=CN&cmpt=q

When will these guys get it that BRANDING will work 1000% better in native script and that, surprise surprise, this will carry over into URLs?!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 17th November 2009, 10:15 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hong Kong / China
Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)
Rep Power: 540
Asiaplay is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

Note: they use 去哪儿?for the Chinese characters on their website (not 哪儿去 which gets higher searches it appears).
Interestingly enough - they do own narqu and qunar dot com (romanisation / Pinyin for both options).

http://www.google.com/insights/searc...&geo=CN&cmpt=q

http://index.baidu.com/main/word.php...C+%B9%FD%C8%A5

One big problem with the method suggested to judge the so called "brand" in this case is:-
a) there is an assumption that someone is going to use a search engine, to find another search engine, by brand name of this search engine (rather than just type that in, as they did the first search engine name).
b) this so called brand is a very common Chinese term / question, which would be hard to trademark I suspect... and is hard to know what people were therefore actually searching for using it - it is a poor choice as a brand name! (actually in the way they present the Chinese characters on their website, it is hard to argue that the Chinese characters are even their brand name in Chinese without the addition of the question mark - there is no attempt to make a logo incorporating these characters as stand alone, as other sites do).
i.e. data used in this example, is rigged by design / choice of the so called brand name (it is not something that is easy to prove using search engine data really).

All you can really show from this example unfortunately, is that people use Chinese characters to search more than romanisation / Pinyin in this case (as these are common expressions).

Therefore, I am not so sure all the searches on that query are theirs - except perhaps the romanization/pinyin ones ...

======
Here is a more interesting couple of examples on branding & search use:-
a) Sony (Foreign Electronics Brands made in China)
http://index.baidu.com/main/word.php...2C%CB%F7%C4%E1
http://www.google.com/insights/searc...&geo=CN&cmpt=q

b) Shinco / Bubugao (Local Electronics Brands e.g. DVD players)
http://www.google.com/insights/searc...&geo=CN&cmpt=q

c) Gucci & Wacoal (Foreign Clothing Brands)
http://www.google.com/insights/searc...&geo=CN&cmpt=q

d) Aimer & Wacoal (Local & Foreign Lingerie Brands)
http://www.google.com/insights/searc...&geo=CN&cmpt=q

What this shows, is it is very much what a company promotes as the "brand name" will be used for searches (i.e. Chinese Characters, English or Pinyin).
Also how easy that brand name can be recalled / remembered by the general population (if they dual brand), will decide which gets the searches.

One interesting exception however is often luxury brands, where you will actually see people searching using the English name more (perhaps as those with the interest level in international luxury brands, are more educated and therefore have less fear of using / ability to use English).

So the argument that a company will always do better using its IDN / local language version of a brand name, is actually false (what is true though, is that if you use Generic word in English, Pinyin and Chinese characters... by far the Chinese characters will get all the searches and win the money!)

Hope this is interesting to some of you

Cheers, Asiaplay

PS: the strange thing is why Google & Baidu show such different results for 过去 and why Baidu doesn't show data for 哪儿去 (I don't really have any answer for that, apart from some of the data is incorrect somewhere - lol).

Last edited by Asiaplay; 17th November 2009 at 10:22 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 17th November 2009, 11:00 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4501
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

"All you can really show from this example unfortunately, is that people use Chinese characters to search more than romanisation / Pinyin in this case (as these are common expressions)."

Not much point searching in Pinyin if most of the content is in Chinese Characters, now is there? Pinyin has not had significant content for years.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 18th November 2009, 02:16 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 93
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 513
zfreud is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

Asiaplay,

interesting comments, but i think you missed my point. All i was trying to say was exactly what you say, "All you can really show from this example unfortunately, is that people use Chinese characters to search more than romanisation"...

isn't that the point?! isn't that why we have invested in IDN?!

It seems obvious to me that the rise in searches for 去哪儿 is tied to the rise of "qunar.com" as a brand. People hear "qunar" and search for "去哪儿"...there is no logical explanation for the rise of that search phrase, which begins exactly in time with the rise of qunar as a brand.

another example:

http://www.google.com/insights/searc...&geo=CN&cmpt=q
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 18th November 2009, 09:08 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hong Kong / China
Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)
Rep Power: 540
Asiaplay is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

Hi zfreud,

I did understand what you were saying, but I think our base view on the assumption of "去哪儿" all being searches for that search engine ONLY (is where we differ perhaps in our opinion - to me that is not so obvious).

So I was just explaing why I think "去哪儿" is hard to test this way, due to it also being a phrase people could type in for other types of searches
(i.e. it is a generic really and not just a brand name).

Baidu 百度 on the other hand, your example today (is a much better example than 去哪儿), as it would almost never be used to mean anything apart from the brand name of this search engine - people will at least be searching for comments or topics relating to the search engine, if not the search engine itself (it is not a generic word and therefore a very good brand name).

So I think that yes, some of the increase in searches for "去哪儿" will be due to people looking for qunar search engine (but not all) - to illustrate that I included a similar "go" type phrase that also shows equal rising trends in search figures (but is not a brand, as far as I know).
Do also remember that in the last 3 years all words have seen rising trends for Chinese character searches generally, due to better data collection and a lot more people coming online to search - so not all rising means more interest in a particular word only... it can just be more people searching (while due to the poor brand name chosen by qunar being a generic word as well, it is hard to say exactly what % of the rise seen, actually relates to people searching for them, verse searching for other things using these words).
However, I do agree that given the search volume for "qunar" is not that high, that they would as a company benefit from owning the IDN as well (but really I doubt it would be 1000x benefit ).

From there.... I just went on to talk more about your comment on, wouldn't it be better for them (i.e. companies generally) if they owned the IDN.IDN version - my point being maybe / maybe not for brands in all cases (as the searches for 去哪儿 maybe do not relate to the brand for the search engine)... so discussed an extension of the idea that people always search for Chinese characters more often...

So I illustrated some clearer examples, which show that brand recall can be based on English (or maybe Pinyin), as much or even more as it is for Chinese characters for some brands.
i.e. using search engine data in the 去哪儿 case does not prove the theory that people always use Chinese more when searching for "Brand names" generally.

So yes, the important point is people do use Chinese characters to search much more for "generic terms" and yes, this is why we invest in IDNs. However their is an exception sometimes to this for brand names (i.e. for brand names sometimes the pinyin or English brand name is searched for more than Chinese characters).

So really I was just extending the discussion, so people didn't automatically apply the rule that people are searching for EVERYTHING more in Chinese characters - as for some brand names, this is just not true in many cases.

Is discussion, just incase anyone else is interested in this topic...

Cheers - Asiaplay

PS: another brand similar to this is Qingdao - what percentage of the searches are for the beer and what % for the city? - hard to know based on a single search engine figure alone and some secondary research would be required e.g. on long tail search terms or focus groups of searches somehow (as Qingdao is also a generic word).
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 18th November 2009, 09:26 AM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4501
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

Funny, I was looking at my Arabic Traffic Today. Search it would appear has bugger all to do with it. It is all Direct Type in. And nearly all direct type in from Arab Countries at that. Now, I know that for Russia we have the argument that this Search being put into the address bar and Opera simply adding the .com. Perhaps somebody would care to explain how the Arabic Traffic is arising?
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 18th November 2009, 09:42 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hong Kong / China
Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)
Rep Power: 540
Asiaplay is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

@RD
Yeah - Arabic is a bit nicer than Chinese for type-ins... as in China many people use skinned browsers that send the URL box (website typed in), directly to a search engine (it is very annoying).
e.g. type in "rubberduck.cn" and it goes to the search engine... however, type in "www.rubberduck.cn" and it goes to the website directly (so for your Chinese sites - always use the www.domain-name.ext version and 301 the non www version to that - not the other way around).

Hassle is, that I have seen that just too many people are too lazy to type in the "www." part and therefore get diverted to the search engines 100% of time... so, where one ranks, for their site name on the search engines therefore matters more than just direct type-ins for China based searches (sites are mostly ranked first of course - but not always if you have a weak site or a strong competitor).

I hate skinned browsers where the URL box is converted to be a search box lol - as they can effect direct type-ins

Browser wars and search engines... all playing for a % of the search pie in China.

Cheers - Asiaplay
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 18th November 2009, 01:36 PM
yanni's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,220
iTrader: (34)
Rep Power: 1143
yanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to yanni Send a message via Skype™ to yanni
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
Now, I know that for Russia we have the argument that this Search being put into the address bar and Opera simply adding the .com. Perhaps somebody would care to explain how the Arabic Traffic is arising?
Here you go Dave.

Stats from an Arabic website of mine, small traffic, mostly type-in. Notice only 4 visits from SE's.

Can you find Waldo?

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 18th November 2009, 03:03 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4501
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

Thanks Yanni.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 18th November 2009, 04:33 PM
yanni's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,220
iTrader: (34)
Rep Power: 1143
yanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to yanni Send a message via Skype™ to yanni
Re: Qunar raises $15MM

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni View Post
Here you go Dave.
Notice only 4 visits from SE's.
Sorry, meant to say 8 visits from S.E.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:15 PM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54