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Old 12th September 2005, 11:13 PM
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Which extensions have more dominance?

I was wondering since domain names could be .jp .com .net or .cn
When registering IDNs which ext takes dominance?
Initially I assumed that if I take a Japanese term like テレビゲーム TV Game

We own the .com www.テレビゲーム.com & another company owns the .jp with the same keyword テレビゲーム.jp

When you type in the term without the extension in a browser where does it go?

Does it get directed to the .jp which is a native Japan extension or does it generally go to the .com

Seeing that this term is searched for over 700,000 times a month it's very important to see when type in traffic develops more which term will get the traffic when people don't type the extension.

The Winner Is

Our テレビゲーム.com IS THE WINNER

That means that even for IDNs .com extension takes dominance if you type in the keyword term without the extension
Currently type in traffic is still low but will grow as people get used to knowing they can use native Japanese domain names.
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Old 13th September 2005, 01:54 PM
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Re: Which extensions have more dominance?

They will only ever be able to do this when they have an IDN enabled browser. This is why the EI 7.0 launch is so important. Not only will the biggest player Microsoft have adopted the IDN standard, or more accurately supported it, but it will Automatic Download where XP Service Pack 2 is already installed. This means the roll out could beat all previous records!

Once this happens it is a fair bet that type-in the far-east will explode!

Best Regards
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Old 13th September 2005, 07:55 PM
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Re: Which extensions have more dominance?

Indeed, .com's have recently been the default for non-IDN domains, when typing in a keyword and no extension. I initially thought this was a great thing, but the public seem to be quite educated enough to always use an extension.

Although there are no stats that I have found, I am willing to bet that most type-in domains include the extension.

Still, in IDN terms you could easily see a trend where locals really take to IDNs, and don't wish to advertise or publicise with the extension, they may prefer to just use the local characters and attempt to "reeducate" the public. This way, no roman characters are necessary.

It needs someone big to push it though, in my opinion.
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Old 29th January 2006, 11:07 AM
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Olney, i know u did this post several months ago, but i still wonder if you or someone have gained me some experience on this issue. which one is more important .jp or .com? japanese being very nationalistic, when most users will know they can also type in Japanese, i think will go for .jp The publicity on magazines or tv seems to impulse a .jp culture instead of .com (most associated with english websites) . Pick up any main japanese newspaper nowadays and it seems this is the current trend, even when until now most website are in alphabet "japan.jp" instead of IDN "日本.jp"

Im right or wrong according to the CRT that u guys have in your many IDNs? .com or .jp ? japan nationalism and publicity gives the belief that the .jp is the winner

and well im also beginng to guess some japanese will create a firefox extension so that the relevance with typing goes to .jp or that when u search something on the net the first categories/websites must be .jp to be sure is in japanese. just my guess, but am i too wrong with your actual CRT on .com vs .jp in IDNs?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
I was wondering since domain names could be .jp .com .net or .cn
When registering IDNs which ext takes dominance?
We own the .com www.テレビゲーム.com & another company owns the .jp with the same keyword テレビゲーム.jp
When you type in the term without the extension in a browser where does it go?
Does it get directed to the .jp which is a native Japan extension or does it generally go to the .com Our テレビゲーム.com IS THE WINNER
That means that even for IDNs .com extension takes dominance if you type in the keyword term without the extension. Currently type in traffic is still low but will grow as people get used to knowing they can use native Japanese domain names.
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Old 29th January 2006, 11:58 AM
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another thing that reinforce my idea of that .jp is becoming the winner in japan is the fact the most famous websites are .jp ; u have to remember yahoo jp, google jp, livedoor jp, apple jp so u are beginning to associate the idea a website in japanese is the one in .jp and that a website that is not .jp is in english, french, spanish, etc.

now second thing is that the use of the cellphone email address which for most japanese means their main email and all of them are .jp , so u ask an email and u know at the end will be a .jp

third thing, when buying domains dont forget that in japan there is formal and informal japanese, so if u are using an online dictorionary u r right the word is correct and it will show a good OVT (newspapers, etc tend to focus on formal japnese) but search for the casual japanese and i m sure it ll have better OVT specially when you are aiming to young japanese. lets say there are many kinds of ways to say a word and among young people the least formal is their favorite.

anyway thats why am i thinking to buy only .jp, but it is logical what i do? im thinking to go for an IDN .com only if i cant find the .jp Do you guys do the same?

Last edited by donwebcorleone; 29th January 2006 at 12:01 PM..
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Old 29th January 2006, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donwebcorleone
another thing that reinforce my idea of that .jp is becoming the winner in japan is the fact the most famous websites are .jp ; u have to remember yahoo jp, google jp, livedoor jp, apple jp so u are beginning to associate the idea a website in japanese is the one in .jp and that a website that is not .jp is in english, french, spanish, etc.

now second thing is that the use of the cellphone email address which for most japanese means their main email and all of them are .jp , so u ask an email and u know at the end will be a .jp

third thing, when buying domains dont forget that in japan there is formal and informal japanese, so if u are using an online dictorionary u r right the word is correct and it will show a good OVT (newspapers, etc tend to focus on formal japnese) but search for the casual japanese and i m sure it ll have better OVT specially when you are aiming to young japanese. lets say there are many kinds of ways to say a word and among young people the least formal is their favorite.

anyway thats why am i thinking to buy only .jp, but it is logical what i do? im thinking to go for an IDN .com only if i cant find the .jp Do you guys do the same?
I am a dot commer. Dot Coms are cheap and easy to trade. Statistics also show that Japanese have registered more dot com than dot JP, in both conventional and IDN domains. The main thing against .jp is that most establish site are actually co.jp. When they migrate, which I think they will with IDN, then they obviously they have to choose a new extension. In China, it is noticeable, I believe, that companies are migrating from ASCII.com.cn to IDN.com rather than IDN.cn. My guess is that there will be a similar trend in Japan. But it is a guess and no more than that. You live there, so you should be able to better market research than I can. I have never even been there once.

At the end of the day Great Generics will be in great demand in both extensions. Prices? Well that is another matter, but as dot coms are a lot cheaper, you are going to have to sell for much more on a dot JP to make the same return. Having said that if this difference is between increasing your capital 1000 fold instead of a 10,000 fold, then it is probably not too serious.

We are arguing about the width of smile!

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Old 29th January 2006, 12:39 PM
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Being in the market for a little I came to realize the Japanese registry will ONLY promote buying 日本.jp because they don't make a dime off of 日本語.coms
It's premature to say which is better.
The registry will only promote jp though cause it's in their best interest.

As long as people keep aware that they can buy both both will do very well.

I'm developing some of my IDN domains to keep users aware....
This is part of the total plan...
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Old 29th January 2006, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
I was wondering since domain names could be .jp .com .net or .cn
When registering IDNs which ext takes dominance?
Initially I assumed that if I take a Japanese term like テレビゲーム TV Game

We own the .com www.テレビゲーム.com & another company owns the .jp with the same keyword テレビゲーム.jp

When you type in the term without the extension in a browser where does it go?

Does it get directed to the .jp which is a native Japan extension or does it generally go to the .com

Seeing that this term is searched for over 700,000 times a month it's very important to see when type in traffic develops more which term will get the traffic when people don't type the extension.

The Winner Is

Our テレビゲーム.com IS THE WINNER

That means that even for IDNs .com extension takes dominance if you type in the keyword term without the extension
Currently type in traffic is still low but will grow as people get used to knowing they can use native Japanese domain names.
.... and the percentage of the people typing-in without the extension?
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Old 29th January 2006, 01:56 PM
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Actually things have changed since I first wrote this thread.
Google invested in Firefox

Instead of going to the .com of what you type in now everything goes to the first listing on Google...

We'll see how it goes on IE7
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Old 29th January 2006, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwrixon
I am a dot commer. Dot Coms are cheap and easy to trade. Statistics also show that Japanese have registered more dot com than dot JP, in both conventional and IDN domains. Dave
Dave, you are the man. but let me express my opinion and tell me what u think about it , ok? because i believe that if people wanna keep for a long time a japanese IDN then keep .jp instead of .com

The statistics dont count on this issue, reason? who cared about a .jp when the .com started? everyone in Japan believed that if u wanted a presense on the internet, then u need a .com, it was a .com world/business after all? but well if u manage to translate the website of the .jp registration organization, you will see the exponential growth of .jp in the last year. Nowdays there is a change and i guess final one, this change will be that .jp means japanese business and in japanese. (im not talking about type-in which until now it seems to be more profitable on .com but if u wanna sell domains to japanese people the .jp means japan . Then why to buy a .com to sell stuff in japanese?)

remember japan is super nationalistic and IDN will reinforce that, the same that is ocurring with the .de market (if in japan hasnt ocurred yet the same was because www.japan.jp was still in alphabet) Now japanse have the IDN tool that was the needed key element to exploit the .jp domain. remember english is not the forte of japanese or chinese. It was way too difficult to go from kanji to alphabet and besides that, it requiered to know the meaning of the words as it was the .com case.

Who knows maybe im too newbie on IDN but best advice to anyone trading with .jp is buy an airticket and come to japan for a week. Check publicity, grab some tissues (most famous advertizing tool in Japan), etc and begin to check what domains websites the young generation are prefering to use or register for their blogs, homapages, etc., check what domains are the music stores, fashion shops, etc are using in Shibuya (area of Tokyo for young people), Ginza (the area of design clothes, etc), Akihabara (electrodomestics, games, anime) and then a domainer can tell better where to put the eggs.

anoher main thing in Japan that people abroad cant see, is that the internet in japan is going to "cell phone websites" instead of "pc websites" with the obvious .jp domain. In the latest cellphones from Docomo, AU, etc u can play games, watch movies, watch tv, download songs, listen the radio, etc, etc. Yahoo Japan and any big domain have both sites, "pc and cell phone websites". If you live abroad u cant know this and find it too hard to believe, but well Japan uses the latest technology in cell phones G4, USA is still G2. Another relevant thing when thinking about internet in Japan and what will mean online presence in the a few years (pc vs. cell phones websites)

After all the IDN decision (.jp vs .com) will be determined by what the japanese (and not the .com businessmen), and who use the internet the most is obviously the young people. It is difficult to tell where is the future of the japan internet business is going front being in front of a computer, even when it seems stupid. but if you are in real state, dont u wanna see the property before to buy it?

anyway as someone who studies in Todai, i wanted to explain better my point. So what do u think? pure crap or there is some interesting idea on what i said?

ps. this "article" should go to dnjournal! ; )

Last edited by donwebcorleone; 29th January 2006 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 29th January 2006, 02:29 PM
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I personally think a lot of your points are valid but this IDN world is not going to be defined by just young people.

Basically people are not going to say I'm not going to put up a dot com because it's not a dot jp...

The research I'm doing on IDN domains & SEO will hold more prevelant.
People are going to get used to see IDN domains through search results first.

I already have a few popping up in search results.

Also the fact that many premium IDN domains are reserved by the Japan registry makes the dot com version the only option sometimes. I think both of us (me & Dave) say it's really hard for any of us to say what will be better for users when we still have to make people aware.

Japanese people buy dot jps because unlike the dot com market what they actually want is available this is also a big deciding factor. The regular dot coms & regular dot jps are not on equal playing fields.

IDN jp & IDN com are....
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Old 29th January 2006, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
Actually things have changed since I first wrote this thread.
Google invested in Firefox

Instead of going to the .com of what you type in now everything goes to the first listing on Google...

We'll see how it goes on IE7
Thank you for the clarification.
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Old 29th January 2006, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
I personally think a lot of your points are valid but this IDN world is not going to be defined by just young people.
Also the fact that many premium IDN domains are reserved by the Japan registry makes the dot com version the only option sometimes.

IDN jp & IDN com are....
i agree, though i was trying to show my position why i believe as someone living in japan that the winner will be .jp After all many members dont know japanese or doesnt live in Japan to know why Yahoo Japan is more important than Google, why Ebay couldnt get any big marketshare in Japan, etc. In fact u got a big point in there that supports my belief, the japanese government determine strongly the policies for companies and they support 100% .jp as u read on the open letter they sent to Microsoft.

As they feel that the technology is ready, all that bureaucratic aparatus will force the e-business in Japan to adopt or switch to .jp as the main standart to reinforce the presence of Japan in the internet. Japanese politicians and business dislike a lot the fact that .jp isn`t a famous or hot domain worldwide. I guess those premium IDN domains u mentioned will be available later this year or as soon IDN is a mature tool.

Last edited by donwebcorleone; 29th January 2006 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 29th January 2006, 03:48 PM
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There is no forcing in this situation. Companies have a choice when it comes to their website names. I've been researching this from day one coming back to Tokyo in September.
Look at the Yamanote line & you will see an array of extensions from co.jp to .com (If they could get them) & dot jp.

There is absolutely no way the registry will be able to keep IDN dot coms from being as popular as soon as people know they both are available people will choice to buy one or the either. I mean realistically dot nets are not a bad option either.

I work for a pretty large SEO company & see what the major corporations are choicing everyday plus I am consulting my own personal clients. I've been part of Japan's internet develoment since 1999. Me making this site an expanding a new market wouldn't surprise a lot of people who knew me.

We can't base anything on Japan Registry because they can only promote dot jps. They are not the only company though. The smaller registries are promoting what they can equally. It's marketing like McDonald's advertising burgers.. No they advertise their burgers.

My main point is we can't say which is going to dominate completely until IE7 is launched.

In the members section is the complete list of reserved dot jps. I didn't go through it to see why the dot jps are reserved but I believe they wanted them for themselves. I truly believe that they will both be pretty equal now....

Once you start buying a lot & realize like me that the Japanese registry is also snatching up dot com drops as quick as I was you'll realize that they are as equal...

I lost ケータイ.com by like an hour to one of them.... This was the same day I got Anime.com & haken.com It's only the official Japan registry that will only promote dot jp every other authority will buy & sell both. Look at Yahoo Auction Japan...

There's plenty of dot com IDNs for sale as well as jps...
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Old 29th January 2006, 04:52 PM
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Question

Great discussions!

Olney:
"In the members section is the complete list of reserved dot jps. I didn't go through it to see why the dot jps are reserved but I believe they wanted them for themselves. I truly believe that they will both be pretty equal now...."

Where's that thread?

DonWebCorleone raised some interesting questions:
I suppose the docomo and mobile phone browsers already support IDN right?

Also, switching between IDN into nonIDN extension, is it easy to do on cellphone?

Are there screenshots of docomo and mobile phone browsers reading IDN web sites?

Thanks everyone!
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Old 29th January 2006, 05:17 PM
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Interesting discussion.

I cannot add very much but would be interested on any additional information relating to mobile browsing with IDN. This is not just a Japanese issue.

I think both extensions will be greatly used, and would not try to dissuade anyone investing in either.

Best Regards
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Old 29th January 2006, 08:18 PM
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I agree with the nationalistic viewpoint, except there's 1 difference - the japanese do not have an unpleasant view of America - .com symbolizes America to some German people. Asians tend to have a positive view of american stuff, mcdonalds, disneyland, hollywood, etc.

I would tend to think that .jp is going to be worth as much or slightly more than .com, but definitely not 60/6.99 = 8.5 times more.

However, if you are looking into investing more than $500 in a japanese idn, the $60 a year might be a non-issue.

Last edited by touchring; 29th January 2006 at 08:22 PM..
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Old 31st January 2006, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenne
Great discussions!

DonWebCorleone raised some interesting questions:
I suppose the docomo and mobile phone browsers already support IDN right?

Also, switching between IDN into nonIDN extension, is it easy to do on cellphone?

Are there screenshots of docomo and mobile phone browsers reading IDN web sites?

Thanks everyone!
Kenne's questions here are key. We need some data so we don't just continue the armchair philosophy exercise we are currently embarked upon. I'm including myself as an armchair philosopher because I just don't know. But I strongly believe that the mobile experience in Japan will greatly "define" the Japanese type-in habit. So to that end - DonWebCorleone or Olney would tell us more about mobile phone browsers, their capabilities, the UX (user experience), and whether sites or more .com than .jp?
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Old 31st January 2006, 07:11 PM
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You're right rhys.

It will depend on the sites that come on stream. If all that's at the end of .coms are parking pages, and .jp is associated with developed sites, then collective user habit will surely be defined by the experience.

Who knows how this develops.
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Old 31st January 2006, 07:20 PM
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As far as the business of Firefox and IE 7.0 adding extensions to enquiries in the address bar, I feel that with the introduction on DName Aliasing and all the possibilities that this presents, then this corruption of the User request in the address bar will have to be stamped out, or the user experience will be greatly diminished.

I have to agree with the contributors below who state that established site with content will draw traffic and will reinforce user habits. This in turn will influence the domains market.

Dave
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