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-   -   Thoughts on Рейкбэк (http://www.idnforums.com/forums/24393-thoughts-on-%D0%A0%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%BA%D0%B1%D1%8D%D0%BA.html)

CapeBrenton 14th December 2009 09:13 AM

Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Рейкбэкx .com

As best my research leads me, this means "rakeback" in Russian?

For those unfamiliar with poker terms: Rakeback

My reasoning for buying this name is:

1) One of the (if not *the*) most lucrative affiliate types out there is online poker

2) During the US Poker boom (which saw it's apogee about a year or two ago), the preeminent rakeback providers became fantastically wealthy by acting as an intermediary for this service

3) Russia is on the upslope of poker interest, per all technical trend indicators and casual, anecdotal discussion.

Right now, search volume for the word is very low, but I'm hoping to be well ahead of the curve on this one.

All thoughts, criticisms, advice, opinions very much welcomed.

jacksonm 14th December 2009 09:52 AM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
I don't speak Russian, but one thing I can tell you just from looking at the domain name is that this is a phonetic transliteration of the English word "rakeback". That is, there may be a genuine Russian word for this same term, or the transliteration itself may be more popular. Sometimes, the transliteration of English words actually is a lot more popular. You never know.

Rubber Duck 14th December 2009 10:00 AM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonm (Bericht 147149)
I don't speak Russian, but one thing I can tell you just from looking at the domain name is that this is a phonetic transliteration of the English word "rakeback". That is, there may be a genuine Russian word for this same term, or the transliteration itself may be more popular. Sometimes, the transliteration of English words actually is a lot more popular. You never know.

In this case, I think we can be pretty sure!

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...ccace5ebfcecb1

CapeBrenton 14th December 2009 10:28 AM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck (Bericht 147151)
In this case, I think we can be pretty sure!

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...ccace5ebfcecb1

You will notice the little "X" at the end of that...
I blended in a white X on the end of the name in an attempt to obfuscate this post from search engines (which seems to have failed anyway, since I forgot and put the right name in the title :D). You copied and pasted the entire thing- including the X- rather than the just the black text, which represents the name I own. So, we both fail here, me more so, since we're now #1 in google for the word :lol:.

Try it without the superfluous X on the end and you will get a different result.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Rubber Duck 14th December 2009 10:35 AM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Sorry, I guess a Russian speaker wouldn't have fell for that. However, the following gives a clue as to what Google Search results you should be getting. Still seems very low to me.

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22%D...ient=firefox-a

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapeBrenton (Bericht 147154)
You will notice the little "X" at the end of that...
I blended in a white X on the end of the name in an attempt to obfuscate this post from search engines (which seems to have failed anyway, since I forgot and put the right name in the title :D). You copied and pasted the entire thing- including the X- rather than the just the black text, which represents the name I own.

Try it without the X on the end and you will get a different result.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


CapeBrenton 14th December 2009 10:44 AM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
It is still very, very low, yes. A large part of the reason for that is online poker is still in its embryonic state in Russia and the Russian language infrastructure for online poker is just being built as we speak. Right now, with online poker, Russia is about where we were in 2001 and since the word has absolutely no utility whatsoever beyond this one particular niche, there is little "chatter" to speak of, beyond a few forward thinking sites that are already targeting that particular market.

Historically, when you examine the trajectory of how Online Poker has saturated, it's generally exponential. Here's "rakeback" English from 2004-present- as you can see, it went from zero to highly relevant once critical mass hit.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...g?t=1260787464

The handful of Russians seeking Rakeback at present do seem to be using it as a stand-alone term; In Yandex, it is being commingled with English language names of poker sites:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...backyandex.jpg

However at present, "Rakeback" English still trumps "Рейкбэк" in yandex by an almost 3/1 margin, but it's all still very speculative since the volume for either is below 1K. That said, as a poker player with boots on the ground who see's what's going on, I have faith in this one.

Rubber Duck 14th December 2009 12:08 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
So basically, on top of the inherent risk with IDN, which already seems an insurmountable barrier to paying a reasonable amount of money for domains, you expect people to take on the additional risk of an unestablished term that may never become prevalent? Not only due to cultural differences may this niche never be greatly established in Russia, but even if it is then, there is a good likelihood that it will generally be called something else entirely.

Reg Fee seems generous.

CapeBrenton 14th December 2009 01:58 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck (Bericht 147164)
So basically, on top of the inherent risk with IDN, which already seems an insurmountable barrier to paying a reasonable amount of money for domains, you expect people to take on the additional risk of an unestablished term that may never become prevalent?

"Unestablished term". The term "rakeback" itself is totally established. You may not know it as you're probably uninterested in online poker, but to anyone who knows that world, the word "rakeback" is about as standard as the word "pipe cutter" is to a plumber. Trends as of right now seem to indicate that the Russian language equivalent for rakeback is Рейкбэк, as the only other option appears to be them typing it in the English language- a pretty big barrier for non English speakers.

Quote:

Not only due to cultural differences may this niche never be greatly established in Russia, but even if it is then, there is a good likelihood that it will generally be called something else entirely.

Reg Fee seems generous.
You're definitely well outside of your home field on this one. If you want to debate IDN's in general, I'll cede you that, but debating the future of Poker in Russia is probably one area where you don't want to be making large leaps of assumption, since you clearly don't know the slightest of what you're talking about.

Further, far from a "good likelihood", I see no "likelihood" whatsoever that it will be called anything else, at least as far as what can be searched and deciphered at this time (and beyond crusty, baseless nay-saying). If you can elaborate on this further- for example, pointing to an equivalent Russian word for "rakeback" that I'm not seeing- I'd love to hear it and would happily change my mind on Рейкбэк.

Two things we both agree on;
1) at this time this is certainly a regfee name
2) there is a lot of unpredictable evoloution to occur in this space

...however, the risk/reward profiles @ $8 a year are very much in my favor, barring fabrication and summary standardization of another Russian language term for rakeback.

If you knew what I know about online poker in general, Russian poker in particular and the lucre involved with online poker affiliate programs (and the durable income streams produced by rakeback affiliates), I guarantee you would've bought this name for registry fee and been happy to assume $8 worth of annual risk in exchange for the potential payoffs.

Rubber Duck 14th December 2009 02:20 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
To be honest you are probably right. I had never previously heard of the term Rakeback in English let alone Russian, so what do I know?

blastfromthepast 14th December 2009 02:44 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
First time I've heard of this too.

CapeBrenton 14th December 2009 03:05 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
http://www.google.com/search?source=...=f&oq=&aqi=g10
The amount of money these guys have made over the past 3-5 years cannot be overstated. It blows all other affiliate types out of the water- perhaps slightly on par with mortgages. The only reason the click prices are lower (than say mortgages, which have astronomical clicks) is because the up-front commissions are structured differently.

I'm not really in need of "keyword efficacy" guidance as much as I am in need of occasional assistance with the Russian language and ensuring that the English-eponymous keyword matches up with it's most logical Russian counterpart.

Rubber Duck 14th December 2009 03:14 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
So this is a promotion thread rather than an appraisal thread? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapeBrenton (Bericht 147176)
http://www.google.com/search?source=...=f&oq=&aqi=g10
The amount of money these guys have made over the past 3-5 years cannot be overstated. It blows all other affiliate types out of the water- perhaps slightly on par with mortgages. The only reason the click prices are lower (than say mortgages, which have astronomical clicks) is because the up-front commissions are structured differently.

I'm not really in need of "keyword efficacy" guidance as much as I am in need of occasional assistance with the Russian language and ensuring that the English-eponymous keyword matches up with it's most logical Russian counterpart.


jacksonm 14th December 2009 03:33 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Oddly enough, the term seems to be more popular in Finland than anywhere else in the world, according to Google Insights. Followed by Sweden, Estonia, Norway, and Denmark.

I've also never heard this term before.

blastfromthepast 14th December 2009 03:42 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Quote:

Earn money when you lose with online poker rakeback, receive up to 60% rakeback from over 20 internet poker sites & poker rooms.
Sounds like some kind of scam.

chrisofmel 14th December 2009 04:26 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
not a scam, really simple formula. i assemble a group of serious online players 100 1000 2000 ect. lets say this group has a total monthly rake of say $100 k, now i go to the online poker sites and negotiate who will offer the best return of rake for their play. we cut a deal at say 50%-60% when hitting certain levels of total rack. i return 50% to 75% of this to my players in my rakeback group. its a win win win!!! the house gets a large block of serious players. the players pay a lower rate. the rateback broker makes a living.

Rubber Duck 14th December 2009 04:47 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
So actually the main objective of playing poker is to mitigate your losses? :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisofmel (Bericht 147190)
not a scam, really simple formula. i assemble a group of serious online players 100 1000 2000 ect. lets say this group has a total monthly rake of say $100 k, now i go to the online poker sites and negotiate who will offer the best return of rake for their play. we cut a deal at say 50%-60% when hitting certain levels of total rack. i return 50% to 75% of this to my players in my rakeback group. its a win win win!!! the house gets a large block of serious players. the players pay a lower rate. the rateback broker makes a living.


chrisofmel 14th December 2009 05:41 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck (Bericht 147193)
So actually the main objective of playing poker is to mitigate your losses? :confused:

lol, some serious players play up to ten tables at one time often playing 8 to 12 hours a day, the house will rake a percent of each pot say 1.75% to 5% depending on the level of game your playing. so at the end of the month these players will have paid in thousands of dollars in these fees. to show a profit they will have to first win this amount. the rakeback membership will lower this amount.

CapeBrenton 14th December 2009 05:43 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck (Bericht 147177)
So this is a promotion thread rather than an appraisal thread? :rolleyes:

You don't strike me as a sort of fellow who struggles with comprehending the English language, so I really cannot figure out how you arrived at that conclusion based on what I wrote. I'm certainly not "promoting" anything. Making a simple inquiry about a word, that's all. Ideally, there would be someone on here who both speaks Russian and understands the topic in question. It's seems I've gotten a dash of the former, and absolutely none of the latter.

blastfromthepast 14th December 2009 06:47 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck (Bericht 147193)
So actually the main objective of playing poker is to mitigate your losses? :confused:

:lol:

CapeBrenton 14th December 2009 08:13 PM

Re: Thoughts on Рейкбэк
 
Ahhh. Upon further investigation, it seems we may have a swing and a miss here (or a partial miss? I don't know...)

It seems the superior term is рейкбек (Yandex 1798 ), which is already registered (recently too. June of this year).
I own Рейкбэк (Yandex 261).
Mine has more content results on G (57K - 41K), but gimme the search volume :(

Can anyone (preferably a native or fluent speaker) articulate the difference between the two, other than what's visually obvious? Is this an alternate spelling of the same thing, two totally different things, a different tense, etc?


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