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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30th April 2006, 05:50 PM
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Question So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

As a fluent speaker of nothing but English, I rely on good faith and linguistic skills of the sellers on this forum - but I am sad to say that time and time again i am constantly seeing the same old thing.. either a seller is abusing that trust, or their translation skills are not up to scratch, or maybe the sales infomation given is not specific enough.

This has been going on for some time, and I am sorry but "buyer beware" is not good enough.

If it wasn't for the Giant's and Olneys of this forum, I hate to think what would be unwittingly bought by buyers.

My solution? well simple really, I buy from sources I know and sources I can trust; invariably this means I buy from the old-timers of this forum.

This of course doesn't help the new guy, but then if they won't help themselves...

We've posted about this problem time and time again, and while the likes of RD will be quite happy I'm sure that i continue to contribute to his mortgage - it is not a healthy environment.

So, what can we do about it? How about a standard sales template for starters:

Domain name:
Punycode:
Language(s):
Translated to english:
Local Browser hits in quotes:
Overture:
Source of translation:
Verified by member (if appropriate):
Buy it Now price (if appropriate):
Starting Price:
Increments of price (if appropriate):
Duration of Sale (if appropriate):
Sellers native language (if appropriate):
Warranty type (eg. refund if mis-sold):
Warranty Duration:


Come on sellers, wake up!!! You are selling to make money - I personally would be prepared to pay twice for something I know is good - otherwise I always have to factor in the possibility that what I am buying could be rubbish.

Note to sellers: I strongly recommend you heed this advise - as I tell you now, you are simply not getting my money without it.

Everyone else: lets stop talking and start acting, lets have some feedback on this idea, and set ourselves apart from EBay & DNF.

Last edited by alpha; 30th April 2006 at 07:12 PM..
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:00 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

I like your suggestion.

I'm fluent in English (only), and familiar with German, Portuguese, and Spanish, thus when I'm selling names that aren't in those languages, I always do my best to verify with multiple sources.

I try to ask a native speaker to verify, and at times, they are wiling, but I always offer a 100% refund if the translation is indeed inaccurate. That's how I personally try to reassure buyers.
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:01 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

I agree. Sometimes language or translation is not even included. Overture is rarely included if it may make the domain look poor. Google results usually avoided - and it's fairly obvious why when you look at it yourself.

I will incorporate your above suggestion to my auction thread. Hopefully others will follow suit.
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:06 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefabfive
I agree. Sometimes language or translation is not even included. Overture is rarely included if it may make the domain look poor. Google results usually avoided - and it's fairly obvious why when you look at it yourself.

I will incorporate your above suggestion to my auction thread. Hopefully others will follow suit.
Great!

I'm not suggesting that what I have proposed is the final article - but I personally would like to see the sales forum moderated - so that a sales thread that doesn't adhere to the template - simply gets removed.

This isn't going to take much to get it going.

Is Olney the only moderator here do you know? If so, we need another that can cover the other time zone(s)
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:11 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

i agree 100% i am sure i have made mistakes buying, if not for the members here i would be worst off, but i have ajusted on who i buy from. so the new sellers dont get a look unless a trusted member posts that it is valid.
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:32 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

I agree with you Alphamale,

I'm a Chinese, if I could do some help on "Chinese language" - let me know.
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:40 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Yes, it's getting a little scary, especially for chinese, ever since the cam deal. Too many trying to fish.
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:43 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

The rules for sales have been mentioned too many times already. For sellers that are not frank enough to put sufficient info to their sales, I can only post "Buyer Beware" to warn buyers, I cannot afford to provide neccessary info that the sellers should have prepared for their sales.
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:54 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
Great!

I'm not suggesting that what I have proposed is the final article - but I personally would like to see the sales forum moderated - so that a sales thread that doesn't adhere to the template - simply gets removed.

This isn't going to take much to get it going.

Is Olney the only moderator here do you know? If so, we need another that can cover the other time zone(s)

If you are unsure, you can PM native speakers - at least 2 persons just to make sure.
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Old 30th April 2006, 06:58 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
If you are unsure, you can PM native speakers - at least 2 persons just to make sure.
Thanks and I will continue to, however I have noticed that more and more people have "please dont ask for translation..." in their signatures.

It is obvious why, they are being overloaded with people asking for help - but in the end this doesn't help the cause does it?
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:04 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

I would also like to suggest a requirement in terms of accountability, the seller should acknowledge b on w that he or she is fully responsible for the representation of the product (a dn or a service of whatever kind).
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:06 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
I would also like to suggest a requirement in terms of accountability, the seller should acknowledge b on w that he or she is fully responsible for the representation of the product (a dn or a service of whatever kind).
you mean like a guarantee? "money back within 7 days if translation incorrect" kind of thing?
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:09 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

If the incorrect information provided from the seller leads to an unsatisfactory deal, yes definitely.
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:13 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
If the incorrect information provided from the seller leads to an unsatisfactory deal, yes definitely.
Draft template above amended to include.
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:26 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

I think it's a pretty good idea.
From Tuesday night I'll be on vacation & can make changes.
I don't know if we should make it mandatory but I too thought about things like this while trying to make the rating system to verify quality of domains.

As far as the sig

I personally don't mind the occasion "I saw this thread do you think it's a good buy"
It different from "How do say these in Japanese" or "Can you check what I just registered"

Also Anyone who wants to volunteer for translations by PM & (includes it in their sig) I"ll bump up their PM box considerable so they won't get full.
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:27 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
you mean like a guarantee? "money back within 7 days if translation incorrect" kind of thing?
I think a Seven Day cooling off period should be taken as read, even if there were no particularly obvious reason for the buyer to return the goods. Lets face it is not as though a domain gets shop soiled. I would be prepared to refund anyone once. Having said that if I were messed about and incurred significant transaction costs, I would reserve the right to refuse to trade again. The problem with translation is that it is not black an white, but a spectrum of greys. If the buyer doesn't feel happy with the domain then a good trader should be prepared to ensure he is satisfied.
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:35 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

I agree that some kind of guarantee should be in order but the right to return for a refund is where the 'rules' (I hate that word...) have to very clear.
Someone buys and after a week the traffic isnt doing what the BUYER hopes and returns the name.....
You all know there are these kind of people around and would have no hesitation in pulling such a stunt...

And if the name turns out to be the wrong translation then a refund should be in order....
We all make genuine mistakes, but 10 'genuine' mistakes in a row......And trying to palm it off on unsuspecting newbies/old hands is BS and shouldnt be tolerated....
People who consistently mis-represent their names/translations, and they are here as well as 'over there' are always going to be around.
Simply ignore them, they always show themselves and from then on people should refuse to trade with them.

Last edited by mulligan; 30th April 2006 at 07:41 PM..
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:43 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan
I agree that some kind of guarantee should be in order but the right to return for a refund is where the 'rules' (I hate that word...) have to very clear.
Someone buys and after a week the traffic isnt doing what the BUYER hopes and returns the name.....
You all know there are these kind of people around and would have no hesitation in pulling such a stunt...
Well I personally am prepared to refund for whatever reason or none at all, for upto 7 days and will consider requests after that date, provide there is some reasonable rationale behind the request. I am also prepared to waive transaction cost, but if this is abused I will not sell again to that individual. I will do this, as I cannot guarantee that every domain will fulfill every aspiration. Furthermore, it very time consuming checking and double checking every domain, and trying to research and price them. For me a money back situation is much more satisfactory. If you have a regular Client, then the best thing to do is offer him credit against something else, but ultimately if he wants his cash, then give it to him.

To be totally honest, if the rules of posting become too onerous, I shall just stop posting. It is rapidly getting to the point where I don't need to. Cash and domains are transferred everyday on this forum and 99% of the forum are none the wiser.
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 30th April 2006 at 08:03 PM..
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Old 30th April 2006, 08:39 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

Well first and foremost. We are dealing with foriegn languages. There will always be mistakes. The difference is when someone points it out whether they still try to push the term or not.

In all languages there are multiple terms for various subjects. Just because someone has the literal translation and another has the popular slang doesn't mean that either person is more wrong or more right. Nor do I believe we need to turn into thread nazis over it either.

I see this as a simple fix. Once a person is told that their domain is worthless and they don't take the advice. Ban for 3 days. If this continues to be a problem with the person an all out ban should be put into place. There is no need to be so pussyfoot around this issue as more and more people are going to jump on board meaning more and more scammers. But, the difference between someone wanting to scam someone and someone just making a mistake is obvious by their actions. Let's not turn into thread nazis.

And I am with the Duck on this with the returns, all my domains are sold that if for some reason the definition is wrong a refund will be issued. I too will stop posting if a bunch of thread hijackers keep jumping in on sales threads pimping their own domains.
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Old 30th April 2006, 08:54 PM
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Re: So we've talked about it, now it's time for action

I don't think the rules should be made too complex. As I posted on a recent thread, the folks who clearly are DELIBERATELY trying to scam people (e.g. blatantly ignoring corrections when reposting sales elsewhere) need to get banned permanently ASAP - as for other cases, well most people seem to respond ok to criticism... though it's frustrating when somebody armed with nothing more than babelfish and the desire to be owning a valuable name goes toe to toe for several rounds with native speakers.
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