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Old 4th March 2010, 07:11 PM
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Post Why .РФ will fail.

• Destroys goodwill associated with the .RU brand in local market.

• Difficult to pronounce in Russian.

• Destroying confidence in small but demanding domain community by making .RU investments worthless.

• Priority registration gives small number of in-the-know companies the best names.

• Requires extensive documentation to register names.

• Requires notarized forms to transfer names, takes a long time.

• Restrictions on types of names, list of reserved words, etc.

• Risk of confiscation of names.

• According to Russian law, domain name owner is liable for all content on website (no "safe harbour" provisions).

• No Latin+Cyrillic script mixing.

• Country name change risk, in the last 20 years, this will be the third domain name for the country: .SU → .RU → .РФ with no grandfathering process unlike other ccTLD changes. Despite the changes, all three ccTLDs continue to function and dilute each other's value.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 4th March 2010 at 07:55 PM..
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Old 4th March 2010, 07:32 PM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

This looks familiar to a lot of other ccTLDs.
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Old 4th March 2010, 08:34 PM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Destroys goodwill associated with the .RU brand in local market.
• Difficult to pronounce in Russian.
• Destroying confidence in small but demanding domain community by making .RU investments worthless.
• Priority registration gives small number of in-the-know companies the best names.
• Requires extensive documentation to register names.
• Requires notarized forms to transfer names, takes a long time.
• Restrictions on types of names, list of reserved words, etc.
• Risk of confiscation of names.
• According to Russian law, domain name owner is liable for all content on website (no "safe harbour" provisions).
• No Latin+Cyrillic script mixing.
• Country name change risk, in the last 20 years, this will be the third domain name for the country: .SU → .RU → .РФ with no grandfathering process unlike other ccTLD changes. Despite the changes, all three ccTLDs continue to function and dilute each other's value.
Interesting perspective. I had not thought about the "risk of confiscation of names".
If you build a great website with great content and build a big audience you can be successful in most any extension.
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Old 4th March 2010, 08:48 PM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc View Post
Interesting perspective. I had not thought about the "risk of confiscation of names".
If you build a great website with great content and build a big audience you can be successful in most any extension.
Yes, especially when Russia and China do it - They go to extremes ;-)
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Last edited by IDNCowboy; 4th March 2010 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 4th March 2010, 09:07 PM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

I wouldn't go as far as to say it will fail, as the same arguments probably applied to .ru but many will surely opt for dot com.
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Old 5th March 2010, 12:49 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Hey, just comment from your hated local opponent:
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Destroys goodwill associated with the .RU brand in local market.
Hmmm... now you protect RU?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Difficult to pronounce in Russian.
Why? Wrong. Nothing hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Destroying confidence in small but demanding domain community by making .RU investments worthless.
Community will follow the MARKET - if РФ will go - there will be changes in portfolios.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Priority registration gives small number of in-the-know companies the best names.
Yes. The TM procedures makes the processes too hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Requires extensive documentation to register names.
Only in priority registration. Then Holders of RU will not use any more then now - not an argument for local market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Requires notarized forms to transfer names, takes a long time.
There is some procedures now that let to simplify this process in RU - I think in РФ it will be the same - not an argument for local market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Restrictions on types of names, list of reserved words, etc.
Agree with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Risk of confiscation of names.
• According to Russian law, domain name owner is liable for all content on website (no "safe harbour" provisions).
Agree, but it's similar to other domain zones - follow the laws and it'll be OK - not an argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• No Latin+Cyrillic script mixing.
It's the priority - IDN must be IDN at all (it's local state of mind) - failed argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
• Country name change risk, in the last 20 years, this will be the third domain name for the country: .SU → .RU → .РФ with no grandfathering process unlike other ccTLD changes. Despite the changes, all three ccTLDs continue to function and dilute each other's value.
Partially agree, but SU will die I think. And by the way - domain investments - it's a risk at all - well what will be in the next 20 years? Maybe it will be usual to reg иван.иванов.домашнийсайт (ivan.ivanov.homesite)?

Regards.
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Old 5th March 2010, 12:53 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

.su was scheduled to be removed from the root but somehow they got a reprieve.

IIRC.
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Old 5th March 2010, 01:09 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusDom View Post
Agree, but it's similar to other domain zones - follow the laws and it'll be OK - not an argument.
Definitely is an argument. Suppose you set up a website on .РФ or .RU and someone posts something, or some advertising shows, that someone doesn't like. Well, who is legally responsible? The domain name owner.

That's not how it usually works in other countries. The content creating party is responsible, not the website owner, not the domain owner.

This means that any kind of open participation or user content website in .RU or .РФ is a huge liability for the domain owner.

Perhaps that's why this technology expert (Ilya V. Ponomarev is a Member of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy, Technology and Communications) is using a .INFO, listed as an IDN, even though IDN.info doesn't exist in Cyrillic:


Last edited by blastfromthepast; 5th March 2010 at 01:17 AM..
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Old 5th March 2010, 01:32 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
This means that any kind of open participation or user content website in .RU or .РФ is a huge liability for the domain owner.
Well I agree that pornsites feel better in gtld. This is the only difference. But there's not other differences in fact if you play in the field of laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
Perhaps that's why this technology expert (Ilya V. Ponomarev is a Member of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy, Technology and Communications) is using a .INFO, listed as an IDN, even though IDN.info doesn't exist in Cyrillic:
It's common practice to write down latin in russian - it's a part of difficult russian mentality.
Oh, BTW, one plus to РФ that you can't deny:
Disabled mixing of latin and cyrillic in both RU and РФ make it clear which url to write - when you hear (on the radio for ex.) молоко точка ру - you will write moloko.ru, in РФ - as heard.
In gtld there is a confuse - moloko.com or молоко.com or молоко.ком?

Last edited by RusDom; 5th March 2010 at 01:32 AM..
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Old 5th March 2010, 01:41 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusDom View Post
It's common practice to write down latin in russian - it's a part of difficult russian mentality.
Of course, that's why Ponomarev's website lists IDN.IDN and not the real address, which is latin.info.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 5th March 2010 at 01:42 AM..
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Old 5th March 2010, 01:45 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusDom View Post
This is the only difference. But there's not other differences in fact if you play in the field of laws.
Perhaps you don't understand the legal implications of this.

If you post stuff about someone on this forum, which someone doesn't like, they can sue the domain name owner of idnforums.com in US court, but they will loose, as the domain owner is not responsible for the content. In Russia, they can sue the domain owner and win. Because of what someone posted on a forum, you can loose your domain. This is a huge and unnecessary risk for the domain owner. Enough to consider doing business on an other domain.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 5th March 2010 at 01:47 AM..
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Old 5th March 2010, 02:13 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

I've understood you. Well, it can take place on open sites like forums - but there's millions of sites (simple portals) that successfully work in Ru without any problems.
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Old 5th March 2010, 03:54 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

The big disadvantages of рф domains (as I see it):
  • Can be confiscated if the Russian government wishes;
  • Government bodies own all the geo domains;
  • Less interesting for Russians living outside the RF;
  • Allocated according to a somewhat opaque system.
The big disadvantage of ком domains:
  • They don't exist yet.
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Old 5th March 2010, 05:57 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
The big disadvantages of рф domains (as I see it):
  • Can be confiscated if the Russian government wishes;
  • Government bodies own all the geo domains;
  • Less interesting for Russians living outside the RF;
  • Allocated according to a somewhat opaque system.
The big disadvantage of ком domains:
  • They don't exist yet.
Avtal
But according to Chuck Gomes it already does, it just hasn't been allocated and delegated.

What's doing my head in is that one minute the Anti Camp are saying that even typing dot Com is far too difficult for your average Russian. The next minute they claim that they are capable of transliterating the entire dictionary at will. Perhaps, it is me, but I find these two view rather irreconcilable.
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 5th March 2010 at 06:00 AM..
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Old 5th March 2010, 06:42 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
What's doing my head in is that one minute the Anti Camp are saying that even typing dot Com is far too difficult for your average Russian. The next minute they claim that they are capable of transliterating the entire dictionary at will. Perhaps, it is me, but I find these two view rather irreconcilable.
Well, let's dig deeper.
We can split web users for three groups:
simple users (sometimes they even don't know what the domains are) - if they know something about domains - it is latin RU
advanced users - they know about domains - let's not discuss them
endusers - usually between simple and advanced, but more simple.
So, advanced user can write КПРФ.инфо - another advanced user can undestand it.
Simple user searches cyrillic in search bar or in browser string (it helps you with profit), or as i said, knows latin RU
Enduser oriented to simple users that is why he choose latin RU - cause all knows RU
But I agree with you that things can change and it can be with the delegation of IDN gtlds and РФ
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Old 5th March 2010, 06:48 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusDom View Post
Well, let's dig deeper.
We can split web users for three groups:
simple users (sometimes they even don't know what the domains are) - if they know something about domains - it is latin RU
advanced users - they know about domains - let's not discuss them
endusers - usually between simple and advanced, but more simple.
So, advanced user can write КПРФ.инфо - another advanced user can undestand it.
Simple user searches cyrillic in search bar or in browser string (it helps you with profit), or as i said, knows latin RU
Enduser oriented to simple users that is why he choose latin RU - cause all knows RU
But I agree with you that things can change and it can be with the delegation of IDN gtlds and РФ
So basically, it all down to what is used by the general population for search?

I think you just lost the argument.
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Old 5th March 2010, 06:58 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Yes. And can't see what I'm lost.
Average simple user knows either cyrillic query or latin RU. Mixed IDN domain blows his mind.
Or some dumbs even searches 'www mail ru' in search bar!! - There is a growing problem.
Advanced user can use anything.
Well it's not that simple as you think (either I try to describe).
Discussion about user preferences may be endless - I don't tell my opinion - it's the market. TODAY market.

Last edited by RusDom; 5th March 2010 at 07:08 AM..
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Old 5th March 2010, 07:02 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RusDom View Post
Yes. And can't see what I'm lost.
That much is apparent, but your logic is completely screwed. Just because you are lost, it doesn't make you right.
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Old 5th March 2010, 07:20 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

I'm really tired of tell that there's a little bit of MY OPINION in all my thoughts.
You still ignore that I say about real local market trends today and try to explain why are they goes this or that - you only see that I'm dumb troll that can't argue and 'shit' your domains... I'm screwed, I'm lost, I'm can't be right - I don't want to change your opinion - it better to teach the wall to speak.
Thanks for some info from some of us - I haven't a wish to discuss the future of IDN here for now anymore. Some of you will glad I wonder.
I'd be glad if some info from me was useful for anybody.
Good luck with you domains - may be I'll come back from time to time.
Best regards.

Last edited by RusDom; 5th March 2010 at 07:24 AM..
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Old 5th March 2010, 07:48 AM
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Re: Why .РФ will fail.

Quote:
The big disadvantages of ccTLD domains (as I see it):
  • Can be confiscated if the government wishes;
  • Government bodies own all the geo domains;
  • Less interesting for those living outside the country/region;
  • Allocated according to a somewhat opaque system.
Changed to reflect my own opinion.
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