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Old 12th May 2010, 12:08 PM
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Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

20 may 2010 12.00 lunch time Amsterdam there will be a webinar by ICANN about IDN.

The questions I asked upfront are: to organisere Glen @ icann.org:

1) how will IDN behave in pagerankings (we are used: keyword as domain name + good SEO practices -> domain name on search page 1), now
a) everything is being translated (and car.com directly competes with 'car' in Chinese .com through automatic translations) and
b) there are more scripts and languages and therefor more competition. 'We' (IDN experts outside Icann and Microsoft) are a bit shocked by the 'going bazook' of search engines and are therefore bit frightened to register more IDN (also on behalve of clients).

2) whether the principle of 'keyword.rightextension' ending up on search page 1 (provided good links and other SEO practices on top) will still hold after search engines will have stabilised.

Your views are welcome to me! jpblankert @ zonnet.nl
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Old 12th May 2010, 03:01 PM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

These sound more like questions for the search engines rather than ICANN.
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Old 12th May 2010, 09:32 PM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Haha, yes, a bit......but why should we register and host IDN's if they are indexed or ranked badly? There must be some kind of common understanding between Icann, w3.org and major search engines.....
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Old 12th May 2010, 10:20 PM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Blankert View Post
Haha, yes, a bit......but why should we register and host IDN's if they are indexed or ranked badly? There must be some kind of common understanding between Icann, w3.org and major search engines.....
You're an IDN expert?

There is a certification?
They are ranked badly as nobody takes a chance to develop them. Read on the forums the many reasons. I am currently developing one that has nearly 1,000,000 exact and it is on page 3. (just started the site)

Great... Now we have a conference coming up and have less room for important questions that ICANN can actually take care of... They may just take these questions and say "no" and enjoy their five star hotel suites.
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Last edited by IDNCowboy; 12th May 2010 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 12th May 2010, 10:55 PM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Yes, I think I am a world class IDN expert now. I understand punycode, have names varying form punycode.net in Japanese to investment.net in Hindi. I am not a trader, I always develop my domain names. See numbers 1 in Netherlands depressie (.nl), burnout (.nl), slaappillen (.nl).

But the names ranked so far do not fastly climb high as I am used to.

לאינטרנט.NET (internet.net in Hebrew) is ranked - don't look at the very bad quarter baked website look - but it is ranked. I am used: when keyword = domain name, it goes straight to the top. Same with خاویار.ایران - (caviar.iran) - indexed and ranked, but hardly climbing. Because I am more than a trader - a domain name 'exploiter' for 10 years - I very well know how domain names behave in the Netherlands. Even 'verpleegtehuis' in the Netherlands: no inbound link at all, most ugly and off the mark website on the world (and mine): a few days after putting it online it went straight to the top (it means: 'elderly home' in Dutch).

That is why I start to doubt a bit about IDN....would search engines already match keywords with punycode of domain names? I doubt. A reason could be: NL is small, international is large and because of fierce competition it takes longer. On the other hand: NL has more websites (helas) than Israel (Hebrew), Iran (the farsi caviar) or even India (up to now....).

I by the way also experimented with all TLD's: .com, .net, .org, . info, .jobs, .travel, . name.......when one stays 'trader only' one never experiences that, but the ranking potential is enormously different for these TLD's. Gigantic. I have my favourites now

But I guess very little people already have experience with ranking IDN, I am curious to this. I mean I have names like 網際色情.com - meaning cyberporn.com in Chinese. That is one I do not wish to exploit (don't like porn), but I would like to sell it. But how can I sell it when I am not sure how it will behave in rankings? As you will understand, I am very honest. But still a good salesman, I sell just through by enormous honesty

Re. business I am completely focussing on IDN now, that's why I want to know how they will behave in rankings. I do not want to be a .jobs or .travel salesmen, they rank as poorly as a sinking ship.

Last edited by JP Blankert; 12th May 2010 at 10:57 PM..
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Old 12th May 2010, 11:05 PM
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Thumbs down Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Blankert View Post
Yes, I think I am a world class IDN expert now. I understand punycode, have names varying form punycode.net in Japanese to investment.net in Hindi. I am not a trader, I always develop my domain names. See numbers 1 in Netherlands depressie (.nl), burnout (.nl), slaappillen (.nl).

But the names ranked so far do not fastly climb high as I am used to.

לאינטרנט.NET (internet.net in Hebrew) is ranked - don't look at the very bad quarter baked website look - but it is ranked. I am used: when keyword = domain name, it goes straight to the top. Same with خاویار.ایران - (caviar.iran) - indexed and ranked, but hardly climbing. Because I am more than a trader - a domain name 'exploiter' for 10 years - I very well know how domain names behave in the Netherlands. Even 'verpleegtehuis' in the Netherlands: no inbound link at all, most ugly and off the mark website on the world (and mine): a few days after putting it online it went straight to the top (it means: 'elderly home' in Dutch).

.
You are comparing apples and oranges.. Investments in any language is going to be harder to "rank" than "elderly homes"... Many of the top keywords in english are competitive due to heavy SEO. It is not going to give you a golden ticket to page 1. You have to work to earn it.
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Old 12th May 2010, 11:19 PM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Sorry, but here I notice again you have no exploitation experience whatsoever.

SEO is in many respects bullshit. It is the domain name that scores. SEO people are people with relative low IQ trying to make there money out of links and alt-tags etc. If a site has 10 links, it is enough to be number one. So execute a few links, try not to fool google, be honest, make a few pages on your site, a smart subdirectory and more there is not to do (if you think yes: start exploiting your first domain - I have 50 and a couple of numbers one).

Have you ever made a website, have you ever made a number one? I guess not.

Second point: you obviously do not understand that with IDN car.com in English goes into straight competition with car.com in Hebrew, car.com in Arab etc.

Sorry to say to, but I hope others will join in the discussion because you, IDN cowboy, have a very limited understanding of IDN, its consequences, ICANN goals behind, domain name explanation.

I had expected a higher level on this forum. Please stop with your superficial amateuristic writing.

Finally do not forget, as probably American, that only 311 m people on earth (of 6 trillion) have English as native language. This imbalance till so far on this world will be rectified. For you idea, there are 0,9 tr India 1,3 tr Chinese and Spanish is a more spoken language than English. That will be a great part of the IDN revolution 2010. Cowboys often have difficulty to understand this.

Philippe - member of Mensa (if that can cause any respect to an average cowboy not grasping IDN essence and not grasping domain exploitation essence)

Last edited by JP Blankert; 12th May 2010 at 11:23 PM..
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Old 13th May 2010, 12:47 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

JP..
Welcome to the forum...but be forewarned.

As a moderator...Please refrain from a 'troll' tone in your replies.
7 posts on IDNF will not validate you as an IDN expert.

This community is based on respect and good humor, and patience.

Don't throw gauntlets on the forum...

denigration of a long term member is not a way to make a good impression.



Google.nl and google.com algorithms are not the same.

Page results for IDN terms are going to vary widely based on which search site domain people are using....

and now with mobile, google is likely to throw a curve to mobile browsers based on IP , network, OS, and handset and GPS/ cell tower lat/long

results for Google in HK/TW/SG are going to odd for a while based on strange problems relative to Traditional and Simp character use.

s/
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Old 13th May 2010, 12:58 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Blankert View Post
Sorry, but here I notice again you have no exploitation experience whatsoever.

SEO is in many respects bullshit. It is the domain name that scores. SEO people are people with relative low IQ trying to make there money out of links and alt-tags etc. If a site has 10 links, it is enough to be number one. So execute a few links, try not to fool google, be honest, make a few pages on your site, a smart subdirectory and more there is not to do (if you think yes: start exploiting your first domain - I have 50 and a couple of numbers one).

Have you ever made a website, have you ever made a number one? I guess not.

Second point: you obviously do not understand that with IDN car.com in English goes into straight competition with car.com in Hebrew, car.com in Arab etc.

Sorry to say to, but I hope others will join in the discussion because you, IDN cowboy, have a very limited understanding of IDN, its consequences, ICANN goals behind, domain name explanation.

I had expected a higher level on this forum. Please stop with your superficial amateuristic writing.

Finally do not forget, as probably American, that only 311 m people on earth (of 6 trillion) have English as native language. This imbalance till so far on this world will be rectified. For you idea, there are 0,9 tr India 1,3 tr Chinese and Spanish is a more spoken language than English. That will be a great part of the IDN revolution 2010. Cowboys often have difficulty to understand this.

Philippe - member of Mensa (if that can cause any respect to an average cowboy not grasping IDN essence and not grasping domain exploitation essence)

There are 6 trillion people on earth?? I didn't know that.

Do you think Google will make a search engine on mars one day?

Last edited by DktoInc; 13th May 2010 at 12:59 AM..
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Old 13th May 2010, 01:13 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
There are 6 trillion people on earth?? I didn't know that.

Do you think Google will make a search engine on mars one day?
And he's a member of Mensa! Did they lower the entry bar?

Icann has nothing to do with how domains rank. That is up to the search engine's algo. That is the answer you will get anywhere.

Maybe your "expert" title needs a little dusting off.

Quote:
'We' (IDN experts outside Icann and Microsoft) are a bit shocked by the 'going bazook' of search engines and are therefore bit frightened to register more IDN (also on behalve of clients).
Then don't.
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Old 13th May 2010, 01:19 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Wow- we have a member of Mensa here-I am humbled.

Welcome.
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Old 13th May 2010, 01:52 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Blankert View Post
Second point: you obviously do not understand that with IDN car.com in English goes into straight competition with car.com in Hebrew, car.com in Arab etc.
)
I doubt it. So there are automatic translators. We are catering to different markets.

Is car.com currently in the japanese market? No.. They are too busy milking the U.S. market. There are so many ppc terms related to car that have high PPC rankings. They are too busy charging their advertisers tens of thousands of dollars to bother.

Also if you are a self claimed IDN expert you would have joined our forums years ago and actually participated. Getting information from here and not giving back isn't cool either. From the facts you have stated so far it seems you have taken in zilch.
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Old 13th May 2010, 03:32 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Just as an aside...

Quote:
לאינטרנט.NET (internet.net in Hebrew)
is not "Internet", but rather "to the Internet".
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Old 13th May 2010, 05:53 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Blankert View Post
SEO is in many respects bullshit. It is the domain name that scores. SEO people are people with relative low IQ trying to make there money out of links and alt-tags etc. If a site has 10 links, it is enough to be number one. So execute a few links, try not to fool google, be honest, make a few pages on your site, a smart subdirectory and more there is not to do
So, Mr Mensa - by doing the above, I can get a website ranking on the first page of Google for a highly competitive term ?? I don't need any SEO at all ?? Either on-page or off-page ??
I can have all my page titles called "Untitled Document" - I can have no H1,H2 tags at all on my pages, I shouldnt have any Meta Keyword or Description Tags. All I need are a few pages of content and about 10 links ???

You might be able to do this if the domain you are using is www.Iamanexpertoneverything.nl - and you are searching for the term "I am an expert on everything" and you use google.nl and set if for sites from the Netherlands only. But most people here would like to have their developed sites ranking high for "real keywords" and search phrases.

If you are so good at what you do, and can get all your sites ranking number 1 for anything you choose, why don't you stick to ASCII and leave IDNs to the "real" experts that reside in these forums !!

Alex

--------

All members of Mensa have I.Q.s of at least 140.

At one Mensa convention, several members at a local cafe noticed the shaker with an S on top, for salt, contained pepper and their pepper shaker, with a P on top, was full of salt. How could they swap the contents of the bottles without spilling anything and using only the implements at hand? Clearly, here was the marvellous Mensa mystery!

They presented ideas, debated them, and finally came up with what they felt was a brilliant solution involving a napkin, a straw, and an empty saucer.

They called the blonde waitress over to dazzle her with their solution.
"Ma'am," they said, "we couldn't help but notice that the pepper shaker contains salt and the salt shaker contains..."

"Oh, sorry!" interrupted the blonde waitress. "Here," and she unscrewed the caps of both bottles and switched them.
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Old 13th May 2010, 07:10 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

'verpleegtehuis' looks like a typo. You have a top keyword with only 190,000 matches. The real term is "verpleeghui" with 254,000. (still not hard to rank).

I can't even find your sites rank for the "correct" spelling. Where are the top premiums you claim to have?

I rest my case... I cleared most of my portfolio of names that had bad search stats or were not the correct forms. With newer tools out now that weren't available before I have the ability to enchance my collection. As a self proclaimed expert you should have known that these are the wrong forms before posting them. There are plenty of tools that provide information.
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Old 13th May 2010, 09:48 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

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Yes, I think I am a world class IDN expert now.
EPIC FAIL
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:18 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Be careful; we don't want you to get Mensa cramps...
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:26 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

It's 'tehuis' and 'verpleeghuis', they are more or less synonyms.

Jeff, if you do anything out of the ordinary to rank your highly searched keyword can you let us know in the members only forum ?

JP Blankert, there is quite some knowledge on this forum so if you want to increase your IDN mana I suggest you tread carefully, i.e. show some respect to long standing members. In the mean time the idea that translations might compete with eachother is not that far fetched as a side-effect of google's automatic translation of queries and results but imo will not be considered as desirable by online businesses since it will increase the competition for every term by tenfold.
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Old 13th May 2010, 11:55 AM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

I agree with respect, but I had expected a higher level on this forum.

I already explained everything in a certain balance; SEO helps a bit, but cannot do wonders. Cannot get a page from page 20 to page 15. Only with a top name a little bit of SEO helps.

Meanwhile, I was very open about my sites, my questions etc. But I find the reactions very closed and attacking. Nothing in above responses triggers me to share more. Nobody of you shares sites or domains that he has exploited. Obviously, everybody (above) seems to like attacking me without giving any openness about their own experience. I stop being the only one giving content.

You start with giving content and meanwhile I go on on somewhat higher level forums where people do REAL group learning and sharing. You all (above) were closed as an oister and attacking as a shark. I guess: typical domain name trader behavior without ever having exploited a domain name yourself. Good luck with yourself and maybe one day you understand what 'group learning is'
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Old 13th May 2010, 01:40 PM
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Re: Ranking or premium IDN's in future and ICANN

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Blankert View Post
You start with giving content and meanwhile I go on on somewhat higher level forums where people do REAL group learning and sharing. You all (above) were closed as an oister and attacking as a shark. I guess: typical domain name trader behavior without ever having exploited a domain name yourself. Good luck with yourself and maybe one day you understand what 'group learning is'
If you took a little time and read through a number of threads on this forum, you will find that there are many members in here with developed IDNs that are doing very well in the search engines.

As for "group learning" I think if you spent some more time in this forum, you would find that most members here are very friendly and go out of their way to help others. I think what p*ssed a few people off in here was your attitude that you know everything and we don't. There are many members in this forum who can do excellent design and development work, others can do great SEO, and over the years, we have all shared experiences and thoughts with each other. At no point can I ever remember a member joining this forum, and making all these wild boasts about how they are "IDN experts" and that they seem to know everything.

How long have you been involved with IDNs ?? When did you register your first IDN ?? There are members here who have held IDNs for about 10 years - yet none of them come out and claim they are more of an IDN expert over other members here.

A little respect on your part would go a long way with this forum.

Just my thoughts.

Alex

P.S. The links below are some samples of sites I have developed. ( Just so you don't feel you are the only one who has shared their sites and work in here ! )
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