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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10th July 2010, 08:29 AM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Hi All,

Great to see IDN.IDN live for China (looking forward to HK and TW coming on line soon ).

Unfortunately, only the Safari, IE8, Opera and Chrome browsers are currently resolving / working for me at the moment (using 北京大学.中国 or www.北京大学.中国 as the tests).

Test - as % Share Split of Browsers used within China
% Share Browser 北京大学.中国 www.北京大学.中国 北京大学.cn www.北京大学.cn
11.82% IE8 works fails works fails
16.74% IE7 not tested not tested not tested not tested (guess is same as IE8 )
00.55% Chrome works fails works fails
XX.XX% Safari works fails works fails
XX.XX% Opera works fails works fails
NB: Safari, Opera and The World Browsers all fall into "other" which jointly have ~1% share

62.51% IE6 fails fails fails fails
03.74% Maxthon fails fails fails fails
03.45% Firefox fails fails works works
XX.XX% The World fails fails fails fails
Note: China browser stats are approximate and based on those found here http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_v...906-201007-bar
I tested www. options as well, as previously for some browsers in China any domain without this in front, auto redirects to a search engines page (rather than resolves) - please note that it seems that the server at http://北京大学.cn/ maybe is missing the www. redirect to non-www. (as on one of my own domans, the www. actually works, where I have the redirect setup i.e. above those with "works fails works fails" should perhaps read "works works works works").

Results show - that at best, currently 30% of the browsers used in China, currently support IDN.IDN.

Firefox (not white listed), IE6, "The World" and "Maxthon" browsers all do not resolve and either default to search engine pages or a blank white page - so until someone "fixes" how the most widely used browsers work, we can at best only see a 1/3 of the potential increased traffic from China, from Chinese IDN.IDN going into the root.
Strangely even 北京大学.cn and www.北京大学.cn are now failing to resolve for me, in these browsers as well (all produce a blank white page)!!!

I was hoping that this is a propagation of the DNS servers (short term) being behind issue for Hong Kong... such that in another day or two they will work (but not holding out great hopes for IE6 or Maxthon, The World browsers - nor people in China white listing Firefox to work)... ... however, logic tells me that, the fact safari, IE8, Opera and Chrome browsers are already working, that this is not a DNS propagation issue (namely, it is defintitely a browser problem)!

Additionally - Search engine issues still exist...
Baidu also has no idea how to handle searches for "ChineseKeyword.中国" yet (verse searches for "ChineseKeyword 中国" / and assumes both search queries to be just 2 words as broad match - so not all is great...
Hopefully the Chinese Government puts some pressure on all of these groups to wake up and enable / allow Chinese IDNs to work within their softwares (as if China based software doesn't support this, it really is a joke that they even bothered adding into the DNS root or that the technology exists, but can't be used by those who will benefit from it!!!).
Google thankfully at least sees this as an exact match phrase - so that's a little more positive!

I hope that some of you find the comments useful / interesting...

Cheers All - Asiaplay

PS: Just a one off post - I will still be away for awhile - busy, busy, busy ...
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Old 10th July 2010, 08:59 AM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Excellent stuff!
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Old 10th July 2010, 03:06 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbe18 View Post
I can't find a press release or news announcement.
not cnnic/ iana/ icann ....nada
I also could not find any official news announcement from any of the usual sources.

When I discovered that ICANN had delegated 中国 and 中國 to China then I considered it would not be long before they went live. China, after all, has been ready to go for a long time. So once a day for the past couple of weeks (or so) I have tested 北京大学.中国 Then friday morning (uk time) it worked So I performed lots more tests and did a DNS Delegation Trace to make absolutely sure it was for real. I looked at the IANA Root Zone Database documentation and there were no entries for 中国 and 中國

Today (saturday uk time) I have looked again at IANA and they now have the entries documented.

中国 http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/xn--fiqs8s.html
中國 http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/xn--fiqz9s.html

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http://ta.gd/中国
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Old 10th July 2010, 03:12 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
Yes, you have to add domain.xn--fiqs8s to the nameserver, and then host it, for it to start working.

xn--simplified.cn
xn--traditional.cn
xn--simplified.xn--fiqs8s
xn--traditional.xn--fiqz9s

Can all resolve to different websites.
hmm.. it looks like all the different versions/variants (.cn, .中国,.中國) of the same Chinese domain name can potentially be resolves to completely different websites then. Thats kinda weird cuz I have always assumed that cnnic wants all variants mirror/alias to the same website.

Anyways, thanks for letting me know.

(I wasn't sure cuz I don't have any cn so I could not test it out. But my clients' got lots so as soon as I get the chance, I will test it out).

Last edited by idncurious; 10th July 2010 at 03:14 PM..
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Old 10th July 2010, 03:16 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Looks like they both resolve to exactly the same IPs!

Is that not Aliasing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andre View Post
I also could not find any official news announcement from any of the usual sources.

When I discovered that ICANN had delegated 中国 and 中國 to China then I considered it would not be long before they went live. China, after all, has been ready to go for a long time. So once a day for the past couple of weeks (or so) I have tested 北京大学.中国 Then friday morning (uk time) it worked So I performed lots more tests and did a DNS Delegation Trace to make absolutely sure it was for real. I looked at the IANA Root Zone Database documentation and there were no entries for 中国 and 中國

Today (saturday uk time) I have looked again at IANA and they now have the entries documented.

中国 http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/xn--fiqs8s.html
中國 http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/xn--fiqz9s.html

André 小山 Schappo
http://ta.gd/中国
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 10th July 2010 at 03:21 PM..
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Old 10th July 2010, 03:24 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Seems to me that aliasing is going to be little more than IP equivalencing.

If it can be done this way at the top level then it would seem it can be done this way all the way down.
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Old 10th July 2010, 04:05 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

I only have 1 .cn ;(
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Old 10th July 2010, 05:41 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Quote:
Originally Posted by idncurious View Post
hmm.. it looks like all the different versions/variants (.cn, .中国,.中國) of the same Chinese domain name can potentially be resolves to completely different websites then. Thats kinda weird cuz I have always assumed that cnnic wants all variants mirror/alias to the same website.

Anyways, thanks for letting me know.

(I wasn't sure cuz I don't have any cn so I could not test it out. But my clients' got lots so as soon as I get the chance, I will test it out).
It seems ICANN have allocated Identical IP sets to both variants hence the term synchronised domains.

It would seem that CNNIC then have the option to do as they please. They can pull similar tricks to synchronise at the second and subsequent levels, I think and of course synchronise with CN which seems to be their wish, but not an obligation imposed by ICANN.
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Old 11th July 2010, 10:58 AM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Here are my observations/thoughts/deductions/conclusions on what is happening with China's idn ccTLDs 中国 and 中國 I have examined the DNS delegation for some of the addresses using http://www.simpledns.com/lookup-dg.aspx

㊀ The 中国 and 中國 idn ccTLDs are treated exactly the same as any other ccTLD as far as DN resolution is concerned
㊁ I now present my simplified and abstracted model of what is happening with resolution of a DN. The resolution sequence is:
㊁ⓐ ICANN Root Servers
㊁ⓑ ccTLD Registry Name Servers
㊁ⓒ Local Name Server - Here the admin has total freedom (in principle) to configure as desired - eg different IP for each variant or same IP for all variants or combinations thereof.
㊂ If you trace dns delegation for http://拉夫堡大学.中国/ xn--7kssxka00ubso.xn--fiqs8s then you will see a clean setup that fits my model
㊃ If you trace dns delegation for http://明治大学.jp/ xn--pss25c1zql1g.jp then you will see a clean setup that fits my model
㊄ If you trace dns delegation for http://北京大学.中国/ xn--1lq90ic7fzpc.xn--fiqs8s then it gets more complex. There are several intermediate steps in the sequence and CNAME aliasing is used. If they rationalised their DNS setup then these intermediate steps would not be necessary. But that is how IT evolves. One ends up with layer upon layer as the result of developments. So their aliasing is not directly necessary for functioning of 中国 and 中國 but rather the aliasing is the result of this layering.

If anyone wants to try tracing dns delegation for other Chinese Universities then you will find a list at http://schappo.blogspot.com/2009_12_01_archive.html I am currently updating this list with 中国 and 中國

André 小山 Schappo
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Old 11th July 2010, 12:54 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Top level is synchronised for 中国 and 中國. This is different than any previous TLD as they have shared IP sets within the ICANN root.

Currently, there seems to be no DNS linkage with Dot CN, but this must surely come. CNNIC have indicated similar treatment to ICANN at level two for equivalent character sets. Not too difficult to achieve because they have always been blocked, and can hence be made available much along the empty promises made by Verisign.

As 中国 and 中國 have never been registered separately it would seem the common registery will simply be set up as a mirror of the dot CN registry. Likely this is a work in progress as CNNIC are talking about these resolving sometime in August.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andre View Post
Here are my observations/thoughts/deductions/conclusions on what is happening with China's idn ccTLDs 中国 and 中國 I have examined the DNS delegation for some of the addresses using http://www.simpledns.com/lookup-dg.aspx

㊀ The 中国 and 中國 idn ccTLDs are treated exactly the same as any other ccTLD as far as DN resolution is concerned
㊁ I now present my simplified and abstracted model of what is happening with resolution of a DN. The resolution sequence is:
㊁ⓐ ICANN Root Servers
㊁ⓑ ccTLD Registry Name Servers
㊁ⓒ Local Name Server - Here the admin has total freedom (in principle) to configure as desired - eg different IP for each variant or same IP for all variants or combinations thereof.
㊂ If you trace dns delegation for http://拉夫堡大学.中国/ xn--7kssxka00ubso.xn--fiqs8s then you will see a clean setup that fits my model
㊃ If you trace dns delegation for http://明治大学.jp/ xn--pss25c1zql1g.jp then you will see a clean setup that fits my model
㊄ If you trace dns delegation for http://北京大学.中国/ xn--1lq90ic7fzpc.xn--fiqs8s then it gets more complex. There are several intermediate steps in the sequence and CNAME aliasing is used. If they rationalised their DNS setup then these intermediate steps would not be necessary. But that is how IT evolves. One ends up with layer upon layer as the result of developments. So their aliasing is not directly necessary for functioning of 中国 and 中國 but rather the aliasing is the result of this layering.

If anyone wants to try tracing dns delegation for other Chinese Universities then you will find a list at http://schappo.blogspot.com/2009_12_01_archive.html I am currently updating this list with 中国 and 中國

André 小山 Schappo
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Old 11th July 2010, 12:57 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90...0/7055780.html

"We have finished setting up the international Internet standards in this field and solved a series of technical problems such as the unity of variant Chinese characters and the equivalence between the simplified and traditional Chinese," Li said.

"No matter whether they input simplified or traditional Chinese in the address bar, Internet users all over the world can accurately enter the websites they are interested in," Li said. "For example, 北京大學.中國 and 北京大学.中国 have the same effect."
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Old 11th July 2010, 02:55 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrohan View Post
Names are resolving and working fine in China at the moment.

But my ISP never had any hack before for .china, they just didn't resolve and went to a page not found error page, works great now though!
I am not sure I understand, so let me clarify what you are trying to say with a real life example...

So what you are saying is, just a few days ago, "http://宜家.com/" for you (and a typical person in China) went to a "page not found error". However, now it goes correctly to the ikea's webpage (as we outside China does.)

Do I understand you correctly?

However, if that is the case, then there should a very obvious jump in traffic for all the ChineseIDN.com (from all the visits coming from China).

I checked a few of my clients' chineseidn.com and none of them have this jump in traffic. It is the same the last couple of days as it has been before.

Anyone else notice any changes to their chineseidn.com traffic???

Last edited by idncurious; 11th July 2010 at 03:05 PM..
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Old 11th July 2010, 06:13 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

The variants can all run on separate IPs as well if you add them that way to the nameserver.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 11th July 2010 at 06:15 PM..
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Old 11th July 2010, 07:28 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
The variants can all run on separate IPs as well if you add them that way to the nameserver.
IPs at the top level have been synchronised by ICANN. Variants at the second level have not actually been allocated. You registered the .CN and you got the rights on the top level variants, although technically they were never CNNICs to allocate. Variants at the second level are blocked, but not allocated as yet. I very much doubt that you will be able to run them on separate IPs.

Are you actually following this?
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Old 12th July 2010, 08:39 AM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

IMHO - Friday 9th July 2010 was an historic day for China. This was the day that the idn ccTLDs 中国 and 中國 went live.

But ..... It appears that few people know anything about it

So .... If any of you find any announcements, blog posts, tweets ...etc.... that mention 中国 and 中國 are now live could you please post links to IDNF

I am especially interested in any announcements from China

André 小山 Schappo
http://ta.gd/zhonghua
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Old 12th July 2010, 09:52 AM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Quote:
Originally Posted by idncurious View Post
I am not sure I understand, so let me clarify what you are trying to say with a real life example...

So what you are saying is, just a few days ago, "http:// 宜家 .com/" for you (and a typical person in China) went to a "page not found error". However, now it goes correctly to the ikea's webpage (as we outside China does.)

Do I understand you correctly?

However, if that is the case, then there should a very obvious jump in traffic for all the ChineseIDN.com (from all the visits coming from China).

I checked a few of my clients' chineseidn.com and none of them have this jump in traffic. It is the same the last couple of days as it has been before.

Anyone else notice any changes to their chineseidn.com traffic???
IDN.com (.net, .biz, .cn etc) have always worked. A few days ago http://宜家.com would have gone to Ikea's site like everywhere else.

The only main thing that has changed is IDN.IDN (.中国) is now in the root. So going to 宜家.中国 will go to a website (if it is regged and configured properly, and as asiaplay has said if you are using a compatible browser).

From what others have said there may have been a hack to redirect .中国 to .com.cn before? Although personally through ISPs i have experienced first hand in the South of China, i never saw this, and always just got an error page, before .中国 started working a few days ago.

Not too sure why you would expect a big increase in traffic to IDN.com. The media reporting has not been that great, and also as Asiaplay has said even with IDN.IDN in the root IDN.IDN still remain unreachable for many users due to browser problems..
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Old 12th July 2010, 10:07 AM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Quote:
Originally Posted by andre View Post
IMHO - Friday 9th July 2010 was an historic day for China. This was the day that the idn ccTLDs 中国 and 中國 went live.

But ..... It appears that few people know anything about it

So .... If any of you find any announcements, blog posts, tweets ...etc.... that mention 中国 and 中國 are now live could you please post links to IDNF

I am especially interested in any announcements from China

André 小山 Schappo
http://ta.gd/zhonghua
News stories: http://news.google.com.hk/news/searc...%8D8+%E6%9C%88

Blog Posts: http://blogsearch.baidu.com/s?tn=bai...%D0%B9%FA&cl=3

CNNIC has links to the following news stories on their website:http://www.cnnic.cn/html/Dir/2010/07/07/5918.htm

All of them say sometime in August?? .中国 will be usable by the whole world.
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Old 12th July 2010, 11:17 AM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrohan View Post
News stories: http://news.google.com.hk/news/searc...%8D8+%E6%9C%88

Blog Posts: http://blogsearch.baidu.com/s?tn=bai...%D0%B9%FA&cl=3

CNNIC has links to the following news stories on their website:http://www.cnnic.cn/html/Dir/2010/07/07/5918.htm

All of them say sometime in August?? .中国 will be usable by the whole world.
Yes, that is the problem. All the info I have so far found state that 中国 and 中國 are August/the future.

I have not found any info on the net that states 中国 and 中國 are NOW and have been NOW since 9th July 2010. It is info that states 中国 and 中國 are now that interests me.

It seems to me that IDNF has a world exclusive with this thread and this information.

Moderators: Perhaps you might want to make this thread a sticky. Not sure if I have the correct terminology. What I mean is to keep this thread on the front page of IDNF until the rest of the world catches up

André 小山 Schappo
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Old 12th July 2010, 11:33 AM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

ICANN have done there bit it would seem, but that is not enough, particularly to meet the exacting standards that CNNIC are trying to impose. CNNIC have yet to do their bit which seems to promise much. So the TLDs are in the root and certain test domains resolve but in general they are not yet live as far as general usage is concerned. So Yes and No.

What we are awaiting is the publicity blast. That will not happen to August, just before the lauch of the New gTLD process which will include localisation of dot Com.
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Old 12th July 2010, 12:23 PM
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Re: China idn ccTLDs are live

All domains should be live.

Here's one of mine which I've redirected to different sites.

网上聊天.cn
xn--fhQy4Yh14Ar2A.cn
xn--fhQy4Yws3A6fC.cn
xn--fhQy4Yh14Ar2A.xn--fiQs8S
xn--fhQy4Yws3A6fC.xn--fiQs8S
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