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Old 25th July 2010, 01:07 AM
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June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Company: VeriSign Naming Services

Date: July 21, 2010



The minimum string length in U-label (Section 3.2 in Module 2)



Section 3.2 in Module 2 of the Draft Applicant Guidebook Version 4
states that applied-for IDN scripts must be composed of two or more
visually distinctive characters. While this minimum length restriction
may effectively limit the possibility of some confusingly similar
strings, and, therefore, possible user confusions among ASCII-based top
level domains (TLDs) and Latin, Greek and Cyrillic-based TLD strings, it
puts potential applicants and their target users of TLD strings in the
non-Latin, non-Greek, and non-Cyrillic-based scripts into a great
disadvantage for the following reasons:



- The shapes of glyphs in many of the non-Latin, non-Greek, and
non-Cyrillic-based scripts are distinctively and intrinsically different
from and not confusingly similar to those of the Latin, Greek and
Cyrillic-based scripts. Therefore, the base and the intention of this
restriction to avoid confusability are not applicable to IDN TLD strings
in non-Latin, non-Greek, and non-Cyrillic-based scripts.



- Unlike the Latin, Greek and Cyrillic-based scripts in which one
semantic word or one syllable consists of at least 2 or more letters,
many of the non-Latin, non-Greek, and non-Cyrillic-based scripts are
ideographs. One single ideogram character, for example in Chinese
script, carries a full semantic meaning without ever being combined or
followed by additional character(s). There are tens of thousands of
single Chinese characters as ideograms, and each of those characters can
be a potential choice as an IDN TLD string because each ideogram carries
its full individual semantic meaning as well as a unique phonetic sound.
Therefore, by having this restriction in minimum string length of two or
more, the current version of the Draft Applicant Guidebook significantly
limits the choices of IDN TLD strings for users of the non-Latin,
non-Greek, and non-Cyrillic-based scripts.



Because of the 2 reasons described above, IDN TLD strings in the
non-Latin, non-Greek, and non-Cyrillic-based scripts should not be
subject to this minimum length restriction, and each applied-for gTLD
string in these IDN scripts must be evaluated on a case-by-case basis
with no pre-determined minimum string length restriction in place as
proposed in 3.2. The current restriction that is blindly applicable to
all IDN scripts not only fails to serve the primary intention of
minimizing confusingly similar strings to the Latin, Greek and
Cyrillic-based TLD strings, but also significantly limits the user
choices in the non-Latin, non-Greek, and non-Cyrillic-based scripts in a
disadvantageous and discriminatory manner. This is especially true for
Chinese, Japanese and Korean scripts.



In order to not to put certain IDN scripts into a disadvantage by
limiting the choices of IDN TLD strings when the confusability is not a
concern, I recommend creations of an exclusion list of scripts that
should not have the restriction of two or more characters, and possibly
an inclusion list of scripts that would always have the two character
restriction. The exclusion and the inclusion lists must contain at least
the following scripts respectively:



- Exclusion list of IDN scripts exempt from the restriction of
two or more Characters:

Chinese (Simplified and Traditional), Japanese and Korean



- Inclusion list of IDN scripts subject to the restriction of
two or more characters:

Latin, Greek and Cyrillic



Sincerely,

June Seo

jseo@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jseo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

VeriSign Naming Services

http://forum.icann.org/lists/4gtld-e.../msg00003.html
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Old 25th July 2010, 01:18 AM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

well well well......

here come the vanity domain names idn gtld applications in Chinese for family names.

s/
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Old 25th July 2010, 07:31 AM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

and .info auctioning off their single char IDN's.
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Old 25th July 2010, 07:34 AM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
and .info auctioning off their single char IDN's.
That could take a while with chinese ;P


and...... .ws will start charging $999 for any idn single characters
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Old 25th July 2010, 07:45 AM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDNCowboy View Post
That could take a while with chinese ;P


and...... .ws will start charging $999 for any idn single characters
now that you mentioned the .ws I don't get one thing about it. it allows Idn registration but will it ever become a idn.idn and if it does how will it translate to all the languages? and i see that people do reg the idn.ws so it makes sense to think that it may in the future become IDN.IDN, but what can it be translated to? 1)cctld Western Samoa, official language English so there goes that idea for the .Idn cctld. 2) .WS -"Website" translated to all possible languages? the idea of calling .ws 'website' makes little sense in English, most people don't even know what it really stands for. It wont' make sense in all the other languages. why is it even available in IDN?

an .cc is cctld for Cocos Island, and cant really be translated to anything else. so what is the point of reging them even if its the no#1 keyword in any given language ???

Last edited by DktoInc; 25th July 2010 at 08:22 AM..
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Old 25th July 2010, 08:34 AM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Well, without googling it I'm pretty sure Samoan will be an official language for Western Samoa as well as English.

So, they could always get an IDN ccTLD that says "western samoa" in Sāmoan. Sāmoan uses macron vowels (like Māori) and also glottal stops, although I'm not up to speed with what they've decided to use to indicate the glottal stop. Last time I dealt with this many many years ago, the people dealing with Hawai'ian, Sāmoan, Fijian etc all wanted to use a different character - some of them wanted one that look like the apostrophe commonly used, and others wanted to go for something that looked completely different.

As far as getting something similar to .website, hell will freeze over before THAT happens.
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Old 25th July 2010, 07:43 PM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
Well, without googling it I'm pretty sure Samoan will be an official language for Western Samoa as well as English.

So, they could always get an IDN ccTLD that says "western samoa" in Sāmoan. Sāmoan uses macron vowels (like Māori) and also glottal stops, although I'm not up to speed with what they've decided to use to indicate the glottal stop. Last time I dealt with this many many years ago, the people dealing with Hawai'ian, Sāmoan, Fijian etc all wanted to use a different character - some of them wanted one that look like the apostrophe commonly used, and others wanted to go for something that looked completely different.

As far as getting something similar to .website, hell will freeze over before THAT happens.
Population of WS is 179,000. Most people speak English, Lets say .WS goes IDN.
Unless the IDN is in Samoan which i still don't see the big picture with 179K people.
Ok lets say, world wide use of the language is about 420K, .ws would serve purpose to only those living in WS. So when I see someone register Russian(sex.ws) or Hebrew car.ws or any other language .ws Make me wonder why people would do that.
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Old 25th July 2010, 08:27 PM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
Ok lets say, world wide use of the language is about 420K, .ws would serve purpose to only those living in WS. So when I see someone register Russian(sex.ws) or Hebrew car.ws or any other language .ws Make me wonder why people would do that.
I don't own any .ws domains, but here is why someone might own, say, пример .ws:

1) A boost in Google SERP for the exact-match search term "пример" (not as good as you would get for a more reputable TLD like .com, but better than nothing);

2) When a Russian-speaking user scans the Google search results, the domain name пример .ws is more attractive than, say, primer .ru, because it is at least partially Cyrillic.

But I agree that no one is likely to type "пример .ws".

Avtal
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Old 25th July 2010, 08:35 PM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
I don't own any .ws domains, but here is why someone might own, say, пример .ws:

1) A boost in Google SERP for the exact-match search term "пример" (not as good as you would get for a more reputable TLD like .com, but better than nothing);

2) When a Russian-speaking user scans the Google search results, the domain name пример .ws is more attractive than, say, primer .ru, because it is at least partially Cyrillic.

But I agree that no one is likely to type "пример .ws".

Avtal
5 years from now when search engines are more idn compatible and .ws is in Samoan. when you type "пример" in google and "пример .(ws in Samoan) " comes up in SERP would you buy something from there?
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Old 27th July 2010, 06:52 AM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

From the title of this thread - I actually thought it was a report for the month of June from Verisign about SEO !!

Very interesting post nonetheless and some interesting comments about IDN.ws ( of which I have to put my hands up and say guilty - I do own a few of them )

Alex
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Old 27th July 2010, 04:46 PM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexd View Post
From the title of this thread - I actually thought it was a report for the month of June from Verisign about SEO !!

Very interesting post nonetheless and some interesting comments about IDN.ws ( of which I have to put my hands up and say guilty - I do own a few of them )

Alex
in my humble opinion

IDN.ws=IDN.cc= 0

can anyone show me the brighter side of these extentions?
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Old 27th July 2010, 05:22 PM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
in my humble opinion

IDN.ws=IDN.cc= 0

can anyone show me the brighter side of these extentions?
If you develop a top keyword-lesser tld, it will get ranked and people will come back because they will remember a strong keyword. Especially in this stage of the IDN presence where most top keywords sit undeveloped.

Traffic bleed? Yes
Lower ranking than top tlds? Yes
Can you use the gateway effect to push traffic to your long-tail top tlds? Probably
Can you use the extra few bucks of income per month? Most likely
Should you base your business strategy on it? No

.
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Old 27th July 2010, 11:02 PM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
in my humble opinion

IDN.ws=IDN.cc= 0

can anyone show me the brighter side of these extentions?
中國.cc <-- faster to type than 中國.cn or 中國.中國
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Old 27th July 2010, 11:54 PM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

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Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
中國.cc <-- faster to type than 中國.cn or 中國.中國
hmm, not really, your still have to switch the language.
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Old 28th July 2010, 01:13 AM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

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hmm, not really, your still have to switch the language.
Not if you usually type in pinyin.
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Old 28th July 2010, 05:48 AM
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Re: June Seo - Verisign Naming Services Comment.

character recognition on touch phones in East Asia.
Removes pinyin need for drop down menus for Chinese.

touch screen phones Japan and Korea recognize scripts and Ascii at the same time.

web ........mobile web.........now the mobile touchscreen web.

android/ symbian/ apple smartphones will approach a run rate near
25% of handsets sold.

touch screen dumb phones are separate from high end smartphones.
but a browser is a browser.
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