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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2010, 06:08 AM
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Who are these guys?

Does anyone comment on who these guys are and what is their role in IDN.

http://www.i-dns.net/index.html

They post on their hompage:
ICANN accredited domain name registrar Ukrnames Ltd and i-DNS.net launched registration for new .УКР и .БЛОГ TLDs in Ukraine. Kiev, Ukraine
General, General Release, 1 December 2008

What is their purpose?

Last edited by DktoInc; 26th August 2010 at 06:10 AM..
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Old 26th August 2010, 06:24 AM
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Re: Who are these guys?

To take your money?

If you believe that the ICANN Root is only one of any number of potentially viable roots then go for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
Does anyone comment on who these guys are and what is their role in IDN.

http://www.i-dns.net/index.html

They post on their hompage:
ICANN accredited domain name registrar Ukrnames Ltd and i-DNS.net launched registration for new .УКР и .БЛОГ TLDs in Ukraine. Kiev, Ukraine
General, General Release, 1 December 2008

What is their purpose?
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Old 26th August 2010, 08:18 AM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Their role? Spreading confusion. And browser plug-in's the came back to haunt us.

#######

Singapore, 8 October 2008 i-DNS.net International, the Singapore-based company that pioneered the concept and technology behind multilingual Internet domain names including Chinese-character domain names, collectively known as Internationalized Domain Names (IDN), would like to congratulate the Chinese people and the Government of the People's Republic of China on their historic official launch of Chinese-character domain names under the top levels "政务" and "公益" signifying "government" and "organization", respectively. The forward-thinking and foresight shown by both the Service Development Center of the State Commission Office for Public Sector Reform (also known as Center), and the Ministry of Information Industry and Technology that authorized the Center, in helping the average non-English speaking citizen reach government web-sites under specific local-language top-level domains dedicated to government organizations is certainly a world-first.

But the world has increasingly come to expect such world records from China, especially in Internet-related progress. In the past decade, China has gone from less than a few hundred thousand Internet users to over 200 Million, with China now being the country with the largest number of Internet users and accounting for nearly 1 in 5 global Internet users. And there is every reason to believe that within the next decade the number of Chinese Internet users will exceed a billion and along the way Chinese will replace English as the top language for web-site content. Given that only about 1%, or some 15 Million people, in China are truly comfortable in English, the time has certainly come for the Chinese Internet to serve the needs of the other 99% native Mandarin-only speakers by way of Chinese-character domain names so that they too can use the Web effectively.

The most important benefit of the Internet is its educational aspect in disseminating information widely. A central component of such distributed information relates to information provided by government to all citizens, but particularly to the less-educated and native-language-only rural poor who need help in crossing the digital divide. By launching "政务" and "公益" Chinese-character domain names the Center has boldly taken a critical step in bringing such e-government to its native-language citizens.

With this launch we have come a long way from early-1998 when a team of researchers, led by Prof. Tan Tin Wee (a Mandarin speaker and a man of Chinese origin) and by Prof. S. Subbiah, at the National University of Singapore, first demonstrated the feasibility of a non-English domain name (IDN) which happened to be a Simplified Chinese Character domain name. From one test Chinese name on a small island populated by the Chinese diaspora, we are now poised under the Center's oversight to reach a million domain names for Chinese government entities and organizations that serve the needs of more than a billion Chinese people in the Middle Kingdom.
Long ago Confucius illustrated the strength of a nation in terms of the strengths of each of societies' layers and its responsibilities to other layers within a pyramid structure when he said " if each individual is strong, then the family is strong, if each family is strong then the village is strong, if each village is strong then the county is strong, if each county is strong the province is strong, if each province is strong then the nation (as embodied by the government) is strong". To update that in the more complex times of today, clearly an even stronger nation can be built if one completes the circle of societal responsibility and allows for the top government layer to communicate directly to the lowest citizen layer. Today, on the shoulders of the broader Internet and e-government initiatives, a critical small step - the introduction of Chinese-character domain names for government web-sites – is being taken to complete that circle of mutual responsibility.
Once again, congratulations Center. Congratulations China.

Dr. S. Subbiah

Chairman

i-DNS.net International
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Old 26th August 2010, 06:59 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Yes I linked these guys back to the russian forum to the thread where everyone is complaining of buying fake .koms that will not work without the plug-in associated with regtime.ru They seem like a decent sized company, who sold a lot of fake domains. Is what they do legal?

Last edited by DktoInc; 26th August 2010 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 27th August 2010, 04:49 AM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
Yes I linked these guys back to the russian forum to the thread where everyone is complaining of buying fake .koms that will not work without the plug-in associated with regtime.ru They seem like a decent sized company, who sold a lot of fake domains. Is what they do legal?
Those will be the REAL IDNs the tossers at namepros are on about!
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Old 27th August 2010, 05:25 AM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
Those will be the REAL IDNs the tossers at namepros are on about!
yes if they reach a deal with Microsoft for built in browser plug-ins. You have to have very powerful friends for that.
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Old 27th August 2010, 05:46 AM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
yes if they reach a deal with Microsoft for built in browser plug-ins. You have to have very powerful friends for that.
There's still hope. I say encourage them all to keep registering i-dns domains. Let them feel special for a few weeks and their eyes off the real prize.

Quote:
Yes I linked these guys back to the russian forum to the thread where everyone is complaining of buying fake .koms that will not work without the plug-in associated with regtime.ru
This just gets better by the day. I'm serious. This is killing me from laughter. Please keep us updated on these guys.
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Old 27th August 2010, 11:30 AM
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Re: Who are these guys?

I saw yoav keren which owns domainthenet, an Israeli company, with a license from ICANN to sell ASCII names, and under the ICANN seal they are also selling hebrew קום. domains (קום = com).
I tried to talk to him about why they are doing what they are doing, he didn't like it to hear what i said too much for obvious reasons (he threatened to sue me for libel, i invited him to write down my info for that and he then walked away.)
They did the 1st round of confusion spreading several years ago, sold some "idn.idn" domains which require a plug in on your computer to resolve, had alot of people complaining about that once they fully understood the names they bought are worthless.
Then things quieted down and a couple years ago they again started advertising and pushing these names, but this time it is with agreements they were able to secure with several big ISP's in Israel which allowed the plug in to "sit" on the isp level so it would resolve to all users of that isp.

The nice thing to see was one of those ISP's advertising it's own product using a domain from domainthenet, and they used it for exactly 2-3 days prior to removing it from the ads, as maybe that's only when they understood what they are supporting but as supporters of such they prefer to remain quiet regarding this issue and refused to admit they even had the domain on the ads until i showed them the ad...

The bottom line is that on the day דוגמא.com will get it's idn.idn = דוגמא.קום then any and all "domains" companies like domainthenet or regtime sold will immediately become obsulete and resolve no where (which is pretty much the case today anyways).
The main ICANN goal is to secure the stability of the internet, i think they f*cked up big time on this specific issue allowing several of theyre registrars take advantage of the ICANN seal which supposedly needs to give users security they are buying a domain in the global DNS.

From domainthenet terms of service, it pretty much says we are not in anyway responsible if what you bought from us doesn't at all and never again will work in anyway.

הפסקת השירות

דומיין דה נט רשאית בכל עת להחליט כי היא סוגרת את האתר, או מפסיקה את שירותי הרישום וחידוש רישומם של שמות המתחם, כולם או חלקם - וזאת בין אם באופן קבוע ובין אם לתקופה מוגבלת. דומיין דה נט אינה חייבת להודיע לך אישית על החלטתה זו, אולם היא תפרסם באתר הודעה על כוונתה לעשות כן לפחות שבעה ימים מראש. במקרה זה, יהיה עליך לבצע פעולות בקשר עם שמות המתחם שברשותך כפי שיפורסם בהודעה ה. לא תהיה לך כלפי דומיין דה נט, עובדיה, מנהליה או מי מטעמה כל טענה, תביעה או דרישה בגין הפסקת השירות כאמור לעיל.

http://www.domainthenet.com/hebrewSi..._Agreement.asp

Last edited by 555; 27th August 2010 at 11:37 AM..
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Old 27th August 2010, 02:22 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Domainthenet knows that their second round “venture” is doomed. Just surprised the Israeli ISP’s got involved with it.

I informed Verisign about this issue more than a year ago. I explained what domainthenet is doing and that it’s a TM infringement.

Why Verisign is not taking any legal action? Are the waiting till the Hebrew version of the .com is out? Is there an official document (apart from wikipedia) that stats that קום will be used?
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Old 27th August 2010, 02:50 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

I can't answer for verisign but it seems there is nothing to respond to.
Not even sure domainthenet are worth the discussion here. Anyone with the tech knowledge can set up .whatever and many did just that in the past.

ICANN on the other hand should not allow the use of they're logo for products that are far from what the prospective buyers/users are expecting they buy.

Not many here speak Hebrew but several blog posts and articles were dedicated to warning the public against what domainthenet and the likes are doing.

A couple examples from Israel's current biggest news site and an official document regarding that issue from the ISOC (Israel's internet association):

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3600814,00.html

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/1,7340,L-3453726,00.html

http://www.isoc.org.il/papers/positi...mber_2007.html

Last edited by 555; 27th August 2010 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 27th August 2010, 03:18 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Interesting comment(s):

http://forum.icann.org/lists/idngtld.../msg00043.html

Yoav Keren reply:

http://forum.icann.org/lists/idngtld.../msg00049.html

Alexei Sozonov reply (regtime.net): http://forum.icann.org/lists/idngtld.../msg00045.html

All of the comments related: http://forum.icann.org/lists/idngtld...dex.html#00049

Last edited by 555; 27th August 2010 at 03:19 PM..
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Old 27th August 2010, 03:48 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Very interesting. Thanks, 555, for finding these. From Yoav Keren's posting:

Quote:
Three years ago at the outset of policy making
on the to-be-launched new IDN gTLD deployment process (now in its 3rd
year) it was widely agreed by ICANN and the GNSO council (all meetings
are archived and available as recordings and final policy papers
published) that all such parties that had launched ahead of ICANN during
its multi-year absence in moving IDNs forward should be allowed to
participate and apply for the TLDs they may have launched on an equal
basis toward an eventual ICANN deployment of IDNs.
Sounds like Verisign might not be the only company applying for .com in Hebrew (and .com in Russian).

Avtal
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Old 27th August 2010, 06:18 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
Very interesting. Thanks, 555, for finding these. From Yoav Keren's posting:



Sounds like Verisign might not be the only company applying for .com in Hebrew (and .com in Russian).

Avtal
Even if they did, would they get a brand name that belongs elsewhere?
They can probably apply for .something generic

I thought we've gone through this already.
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Old 27th August 2010, 07:40 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni View Post
Even if they did, would they get a brand name that belongs elsewhere?
They can probably apply for .something generic

I thought we've gone through this already.
I'm not sure whether Verisign holds the trademark on .com in other languages, especially if these other companies have been using it in Hebrew and Russian the last 10 years.

But when these companies apply for .com in their languages, they'll be blocked by ICANN's "confusing similarity" rule (as long as the applied-for gTLD sounds like "com"). And only Verisign will be able to bypass that rule via the "non-detrimental similarity" exception.

So I guess Verisign is still in good shape.

Avtal
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Old 27th August 2010, 08:58 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
But when these companies apply for .com in their languages, they'll be blocked by ICANN's "confusing similarity" rule (as long as the applied-for gTLD sounds like "com"). And only Verisign will be able to bypass that rule via the "non-detrimental similarity" exception.

So I guess Verisign is still in good shape.

Avtal
1) Few idiots in Israel think they have a chance getting the transliteration of the ".com".

2) With the ISOC (Israel's internet association) application for ".Israel" in Hebrew and Verisign’s gTLD I don’t see domainthenet doing well with .something generic.

Last edited by dave_5; 27th August 2010 at 09:16 PM..
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Old 27th August 2010, 09:07 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Anyone can apply to .anything, applying and getting the rights to manage a certain extension are two different worlds.

We have discussed this topic more then once, and the bottom line is:

Let's assume (It won't ever happen for so many reasons but we are assuming that it can happen)...

PIR Manage ASCII .org, and a member from the forum (i.e theGenius1), submits his proposal to run .org in Cyrillic (.орг) and gets his sumbission approved.
Even then with two completely different registries running the above TLD's, in order to prevent confusion under the most basic rule that ICANN exists for, both must ensure that .org and .орг resolves to the same place and are under the control of the same registrant so from a registrant point of view it is irrelevant who manages what, what's important is that he only can get both or all if there are more then 2 tld's for his/her domain(s).

Back to reality, no one other then verisign will ever run .com or .net idn tld's, no one other then PIR will ever run .org idn tld's, the only time you maybe will see the above happening, is if i.e .museum wants to allow the French Museum Association a unique right to run .Musée

Last edited by 555; 27th August 2010 at 09:08 PM..
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Old 28th August 2010, 03:52 AM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Many years ago I registered some IDN names with RegTime, when the invoice came, it became clear that RegTime is a company incorporated in Hong Kong.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 28th August 2010 at 03:56 AM..
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Old 28th August 2010, 04:51 AM
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Re: Who are these guys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
Many years ago I registered some IDN names with RegTime, when the invoice came, it became clear that RegTime is a company incorporated in Hong Kong.
Was there an ICANN fee associated with it?

when you type .kom in yandex or .орг all these results come up of sites for example http://rozetki.com advertised as розетки.ком . I am just wondering, can this be the reason for their site promo's in .ком?

Does anyone know if the search engines detect these i-dns domains? Personally, I haven't seen any.

Last edited by DktoInc; 28th August 2010 at 05:14 AM..
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Old 28th August 2010, 12:42 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

google doesn't detect these domains!

They are accessible only within Israel.
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Old 28th August 2010, 01:34 PM
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Re: Who are these guys?

No Email abilities, No SE Ranking abilities, and they are not working from every user in Israel, Only working for the users that are in Israel and using an ISP which has an agreement with domainthenet.
Don't be surprised if you see a class action against domainthenet and the likes.

Last edited by 555; 28th August 2010 at 01:36 PM..
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