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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15th November 2010, 07:39 AM
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LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Hello all,

I’m in the domaining area since a bit more than one year now, and I’m always impressed by the auctions values reached by LL.com, NN.com and their combinations (LN.com and NL.com). Sales reach easily dozens or hundred thousand dollars (For instance here http://www.afternic.com/names.php?src=1&skeyword=&tld[]=com&sta=0&cat0=0&cat1=0&lop=&hip=&slength=1&length=2&within=0&ipp=25&sortby=r).

On the opposite, since the apparition of IDN for .com and .net extensions, domains like CL, LC, CN, and NC (where C is an accentuated character, non-ascii type, like é, è, ê, à, â, î, ï…) are still available. For instance, domains like gô.com, ïn.com, nî.com, rù.com can be registered. I know that most of these domains names have no real meaning (or maybe only a phonetic meaning), but for some Latin European people (like me ), a bô.com is no more ridiculous than an h9.com, sold around $100 000.

So, what do you think about that:

Total number of possibilities for LL, NN, LN and NL domain name is:
(26 letters + 10 figures) X (10 figures + 26 letters) = 36 X 36 = 1296.

As you maybe know, in Latin languages, there are 23 non ascii characters (ü, é, â, ä, à, ç, ê, ë, è, ï, å, ì, ô, ö, ò, û, ù, ÿ, á, í, ó, ú, ñ). Thus, using them, we have an additional number of possibilities of:

(26 letters + 10 figures) X 23 non-ascii + 23 non-ascii X (26 letters + 10 figures) = 36 X 23 + 23 X 36 = 1656.

And as you know, average price of an LLL.com is around $4500 (See here http://3character.com/priceguide.html), and the total number of possibilities for LLL.com domains names is: 26 X 26 X 26 = 17 576. This figure is clearly bigger than our previous results of 1656 and 1296.

So, my question is: don’t you think that when LC/CL will begin to rarefy, a form of speculation will begin, resulting in an increase of their price?

Moreover, a lot of languages are using these non-ascii letters: for instance Portuguese, German, Spanish, French, East-European languages, Vietnamese, Turkish, etc… Millions of people! And ICANN and experts in domaining are saying that IDN are the future domain name revolution.

I think that what is rare is expensive.

What do you think about that? Do you agree, yes or no and why?
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Old 15th November 2010, 02:44 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainCatcher View Post
As you maybe know, in Latin languages, there are 23 non ascii characters (ü, é, â, ä, à, ç, ê, ë, è, ï, å, ì, ô, ö, ò, û, ù, ÿ, á, í, ó, ú, ñ).
domainCatcher,

I believe your list is incomplete. For instance, it lacks ã and õ (Portuguese), ł (Polish), and a whole bunch of Vietnamese letters. If you examine the list of Unicode characters, and search for all of the Latin letters that exist in both capital and small form (in other words, ignore letters that only have a capital form or only have a small form), you will discover that there are 323, including the 26 ascii letters. Some of the 323 are pretty obscure (ǜ and ḱ for instance), so maybe 323 (or 323 - 26) is a high estimate. But 23 is definitely too low.

Avtal
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Old 15th November 2010, 03:02 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Last time I checked (more than a year ago), all the German LL.com and NL.com, LN.com where taken. Most Russian LL.com are taken. And I believe many LL.РФ are taken as well.

Also, all Lñ.com and ñL.com are taken I believe.

It's very dependent on the language and character, but those in demand are already gone.
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Old 15th November 2010, 03:12 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

My experience here is that you will not find much excitement for any one character domain.

Currently this forum is more excited about the Chinese, Japanese and Russian domains as they are the flavor of the moment. German idns are doing much better at sedo

Letters found on a native keyboard are going to be the valuable domains.
Its really easy to tell what letters have some value by checkng the search engine returns.

if you search for the letter and it returns 30,000 to 80,000 results, its a crap letter.

You probably wont see any high interest in them until someone has a public sale for a large sum that gets published. then the bandwagon will start.

As smart as some of the members are here about emerging domains, these seem to be getting overlooked. This is how it was when you could first buy the lll.com's and just 5 yrs ago the .nets No one wanted them because they couldnt find a way to use them.

As for me Im picking up all I can. If nothing else Im going to make my son a rich man someday.

Here is he wikipedia page on international keyboards. It may help you locate any letter you may have

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout

Last edited by lipps; 15th November 2010 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 15th November 2010, 03:19 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

A few things to consider:
  • IDN land is different from ASCII land.
  • ASCII LLL and the likes only became popular when all the good keywords were gone.
  • IDN LLL are not scarce at all.
  • LLL, LN, NL or whatever usually don't mean anything.
  • Whenever they mean something this is usually because the can be used as abbreviations.
  • Many Latin IDN characters are not used at the beginning of a word and therefore don't make much sense as abbreviations.

Of course you can reg them all and wait for a very long time until anyone wants them but there are much better opportunities out there right now imo.
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Old 15th November 2010, 03:28 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

I would agree with the above.
I should have been more clear
There are very few of the LL or LLL at this time that I would want, but I would grab up all the L.com and L.nets in a good language I could
But thats just me

Last edited by lipps; 15th November 2010 at 03:41 PM..
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Old 15th November 2010, 06:21 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

I like L.com's.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 15th November 2010 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 15th November 2010, 06:42 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

h9.com went for that because of the branding possibilities.

What you need to ascertain is whether companies in the regions those
"squigglies" are used like the idea of building a brand around a meaningless 2 char term using a squiggly.

If the answer is yes, then reg away!
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Old 15th November 2010, 06:53 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

A couple big sites in Russia:

Marketed as я.ру www.ya.ru
vk.ru
kp.ru
hh.ru
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Old 19th November 2010, 07:50 AM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Hello,

thank you for your replies !

Right Avtal, my list is incomplete. But I tried to take the most common latin letters, in their various accentuated forms.

I agree with lipps about his comment on keyboards. That's a very discerning remark.

I found this site http://www.2letter.eu/, which sell .eu two letters IDN at hight price (€5000).

Current maket prices are not as high. But such a behaviour can influence the market, create speculation, and such high prices can become the real price, observed for LL IDN.
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Old 20th November 2010, 07:50 AM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Unless you know the languages involved, many of these will be pure garbage.
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Old 22nd November 2010, 10:58 AM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainCatcher View Post
Hello,

thank you for your replies !

Right Avtal, my list is incomplete. But I tried to take the most common latin letters, in their various accentuated forms.

I agree with lipps about his comment on keyboards. That's a very discerning remark.

I found this site http://www.2letter.eu/, which sell .eu two letters IDN at hight price (€5000).

Current maket prices are not as high. But such a behaviour can influence the market, create speculation, and such high prices can become the real price, observed for LL IDN.
No, they offer for domains at high prices, completely different from "selling domains at high prices". They probably haven't really sold one.

It has bullshit impact on the real market. If you think the future of IDNs is LL.com and LLL.com and LLLL.com, please go back to NamePros.

Last edited by domainguru; 22nd November 2010 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 22nd November 2010, 02:10 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
If you think the future of IDNs is LL.com and LLL.com and LLLL.com, please go back to NamePros.
domainguru,

That seems a bit harsh. Like everyone else who showed up late for the IDN party (including me), domainCatcher is looking for an angle: a niche that hasn't already been picked over.

domainCatcher pointed out that there might be value in scarcity, and asked what people think about the extended-Latin equivalent of LL. My own opinion is that they aren't all that scarce, and your opinion is clear. I agree with you that sites like 2letter .eu don't reflect, and won't influence, the actual market.

But I don't think domainCatcher asked his questions in a way that would justify comparing him to the "pros" at NamePros.

Avtal
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Old 22nd November 2010, 06:11 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
domainguru,

But I don't think domainCatcher asked his questions in a way that would justify comparing him to the "pros" at NamePros.

Avtal
I agree. If anyone said that to me, I would be in fighting mood!
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Old 22nd November 2010, 06:27 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Thanks Avtal and Rubber.

I presented only an idea...
Most of the answers here focus on the meaning of IDN and not on my explanation. I was expecting valuable aguments...

Last edited by domainCatcher; 22nd November 2010 at 06:28 PM..
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Old 22nd November 2010, 08:42 PM
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Re: LL.com, LLL.com, IDN and speculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainCatcher View Post
Thanks Avtal and Rubber.

I presented only an idea...
Most of the answers here focus on the meaning of IDN and not on my explanation. I was expecting valuable aguments...
The thing is, nearly all ASCII domainers have been burned by the BS propagated by the few at the top .... that you simply invest in LLL.com or LLLL.com or LLLLL.com or NNN.com or NNNN.com or NNNNN.com ... because they are getting scarcer and scarcer.

When the shit hits the fan, these "know it alls" just disappear and leave the domain masses with domains they can't sell, or at least sell for more than they bought.

Even L.com gets nearly **** all for IDNs, even in the most popular languages, so the thought of going after LL.com or LLL.com is very strange to me.

If you have a 100 year horizon, cool
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