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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 15th March 2011, 04:11 AM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

Where did you get that? What's important is the amount of radiation and the scientists looking at the worst case scenarios don't seem to be concerned about adverse health effects in Tokyo

Last edited by Kent99; 15th March 2011 at 05:03 AM..
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Old 15th March 2011, 07:13 PM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

Seems that the Japanese have asked for American help.

Why?

Because they are nasty pieces of American designed shit, that were known to be defective as far back as 1972.

The fallout out of this could go a lot further than Tokyo, not least because the US is full of such defective power plants.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/wo...16contain.html
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 15th March 2011 at 07:16 PM..
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Old 15th March 2011, 07:26 PM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

More info here:

http://www.nirs.org/factsheets/bwrfact.htm
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Old 15th March 2011, 07:36 PM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

LACK OF CONTAINMENT INTEGRITY DURING A NUCLEAR ACCIDENT

The purpose of a reactor containment system is to create a barrier against the release of radioactivity generated during nuclear power operations from certain "design basis" accidents, such as increased pressure from a single pipe break. It is important to understand that nuclear power plants are not required by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) to remain intact as a barrier to all possible accidents or "non-design basis" accidents, such as the melting of reactor fuel. All nuclear reactors can have accidents which can exceed the design basis of their containment.

But even basic questions about the the GE containment design remain unanswered and its integrity in serious doubt. For example, eighteen of these BWRs use a smaller GE Mark I pressure suppression containment conceived as a cost-saving alternative to the larger reinforced concrete containments marketed by competitors. A large inverted light-bulb-shaped steel structure called "the drywell" is constructed of a steel liner and a concrete drywell shield wall enclosing the reactor vessel. The atmosphere of the drywell is connected through large diameter pipes to a large hollow doughnut-shaped pressure suppression pool called "the torus", or wetwell, which is half-filled with water. In the event of a loss-of-coolant-accident (LOCA), steam would be released into the drywell and directed underwater in the torus where it is supposed to condense, thus suppressing a pressure buildup in the containment.

However, as early as 1972, Dr. Stephen Hanuaer, an Atomic Energy Commission safety official, recommended that the pressure suppression system be discontinued and any further designs not be accepted for construction permits. Shortly thereafter, three General Electric nuclear engineers publicly resigned their prestigious positions citing dangerous shortcomings in the GE design.

An NRC analysis of the potential failure of the Mark I under accident conditions concluded in a 1985 report that Mark I failure within the first few hours following core melt would appear rather likely."

In 1986, Harold Denton, then the NRC's top safety official, told an industry trade group that the "Mark I containment, especially being smaller with lower design pressure, in spite of the suppression pool, if you look at the WASH 1400 safety study, you'll find something like a 90% probability of that containment failing." In order to protect the Mark I containment from a total rupture it was determined necessary to vent any high pressure buildup. As a result, an industry workgroup designed and installed the "direct torus vent system" at all Mark I reactors. Operated from the control room, the vent is a reinforced pipe installed in the torus and designed to release radioactive high pressure steam generated in a severe accident by allowing the unfiltered release directly to the atmosphere through the 300 foot vent stack. Reactor operators now have the option by direct action to expose the public and the environment to unknown amounts of harmful radiation in order to "save containment." As a result of GE's design deficiency, the original idea for a passive containment system has been dangerously compromised and given over to human control with all its associated risks of error and technical failure.

DETERIORATION OF BWR SYSTEMS AND COMPONENTS

It is becoming increasingly clear that the aging of reactor components poses serious economic and safety risks at BWRs. A report by NRC published in 1993 confirmed that age-related degradation in BWRs will damage or destroy many vital safety-related components inside the reactor vessel before the forty year license expires. The NRC report states "Failure of internals could create conditions that may challenge the integrity the reactor primary containment systems." The study looked at major components in the reactor vessel and found that safety-related parts were vulnerable to failure as the result of the deterioration of susceptible materials (Type 304 stainless steel ) due to chronic radiation exposure, heat, fatigue, and corrosive chemistry. One such safety-related component is the core shroud and it is also an indicator of cracking in other vital components through the reactor made of the same material.

Core Shroud Cracking

The core shroud is a large stainless steel cylinder of circumferentially welded plates surrounding the reactor fuel core. The shroud provides for the core geometry of the fuel bundles. It is integral to providing a refloodable compartment in the event of a loss-of-coolant-accident. Extensive cracking of circumferential welds on the core shroud has been discovered in a growing number of U.S. and foreign BWRs. A lateral shift along circumferential cracks at the welds by as little as 1/8 inch can result in the misalignment of the fuel and the inability to insert the control rods coupled with loss of fuel core cooling capability. This scenario can result in a core melt accident. A German utility operating a GE BWR where extensive core shroud cracking was identified estimated the cost of replacement at $65 million dollars. The Wuergassen reactor, Germany's oldest boiling water reactor, was closed in 1995 after wary German nuclear regulators rejected a plan to repair rather than replace the reactor's cracked core shroud.

Rather than address the central issue of age related deterioration, U.S. BWR operators now opt for a dangerous piecemeal approach of patching cracking parts at least cost but increased risk.

Paul Gunter, NIRS, March, 1996
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 15th March 2011, 08:43 PM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

Saying prayers for the Japanese.
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Old 15th March 2011, 10:34 PM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

New developments: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72E8H920110315
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 16th March 2011, 11:16 PM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin99 View Post
Where did you get that? What's important is the amount of radiation and the scientists looking at the worst case scenarios don't seem to be concerned about adverse health effects in Tokyo
Because they're not in Tokyo?

Ryu, and everyone else in Tokyo, GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE RIGHT NOW.

The radiation levels are getting so high now that workers cannot get close enough to do anything. This is going to runaway, and every reactor will eventually melt down.

Plan accordingly.
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Old 17th March 2011, 01:24 AM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
Because they're not in Tokyo?

Ryu, and everyone else in Tokyo, GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE RIGHT NOW.

The radiation levels are getting so high now that workers cannot get close enough to do anything. This is going to runaway, and every reactor will eventually melt down.

Plan accordingly.
I'm not an expert on nuclear meltdowns but I've got to agree with that.

What's to lose if the worst case assumption is wrong and you are somewhere else? And what's to lose if it actually happens und you're still there?
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 17th March 2011, 01:42 AM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

If anyone from Japan needs to evacuate, and can get to Calif, I can put you up for a while or find someone who will.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 17th March 2011, 02:09 AM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

May God bless Japan and her citizens.

Our prayers are with you all.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 17th March 2011, 02:21 AM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

Horrible horrible situation. If anybody feels like crashing in Eastern Canada, let me know
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 17th March 2011, 04:34 AM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

I'm still in Tokyo. We considered leaving yesterday. But after it became apparent the newly born son of my brother couldn't come with us, we decided to stay for the time being.

I'm so thankful for death-defying efforts of the Japanese SDF team pouring water into Fukushima reactors from air. Those guys are our heroes in the truest sense.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 17th March 2011, 04:36 AM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

I'll probably lose Internet connection for next 2-3 hours followed by a complete blackout for another 2-3 hours.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 17th March 2011, 04:45 AM
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Re: Best wishes to all members who living in Japan

My thanks to phio and squirrel for offering shelters. I appreciate your thoughts.

Luckily, I have many places to go should the situation become too bad for me to stay in Tokyo. But then, I'm not going to leave my parents that easily.
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