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Old 4th April 2011, 06:25 PM
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Where is the market?

If IDN's are so hot, what at this point are the reasons you think there is very low interest from outside of this board (And even here it's fairly dead to put it nicely).

I met with someone a couple days ago, he wants to invest but hangs on that one question which i have many answers for but would like to hear others. Please be as pessimistic as you can

On the same note but more specifically, if interested refer to the case with Cyrillic where it seems a string that possibly will be considered less 'problematic' then some other strings and also happens to be a perfect match from other aspects (translation,transliteration ,visual,aural etc)...
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Old 4th April 2011, 06:41 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

am trying to understand your question: are you asking why there is no demand for IDNs?
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Old 4th April 2011, 06:46 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil View Post
am trying to understand your question: are you asking why there is no demand for IDNs?
Yes basically, i am trying to understand why there is no demand or considerably lower demand then expected at this point and time in the 'game'...

Last edited by 555; 4th April 2011 at 06:49 PM..
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Old 4th April 2011, 06:52 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

1. No perceived guru said BUY IDNs.
2. Takes way tooooo much work for a non-native
3. monetization or lack there of(perceived or real lack of monetization)

just my 2 cents.
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Old 4th April 2011, 07:00 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

in no particular order:

1) competition from .ru/old habits die hard and people have been using that (probably the weakest argument in my mind, but an argument nontheless
2) lack of knowledge: i have been asking my friends (25-40 years old, good mix of your professionals and typicall Russians) about what they think of cyrillic domains and they said havent heard anything and english is the language everyone learns.

Btw, i think this is the biggest misnoception about Russia/ns: as much as they hate and talk down the West and America in particular, english words, American culture (McDonalds, etc.), jokes, way of life - everything moves towards Americanism, slowly but surely. No denial of that, as much as people talk down on the surface. Not sure how that will effect proliferation, or lack of, of cyrillic domains.

3) .rf seems (at least to me who granted isnt following it as much locally) to be dead in the water, at least for now. My portfolio hasnt experienced any, zero, rise in traffic from before .rf to now (if anyone is different would love to hear your counter arguments)
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Old 4th April 2011, 07:03 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

because I can't remember the last time I saw an ascii domain sell based on it's traffic or revenue.

All you see are domains sold on hype.

To have hype, you need sheeple that at least pretend to understand what dream they are buying into, and as Tim mentioned, that's way too hard to work out.

A healthy IDN market will arrive when there is traffic/revenue to talk about, and then even for an IDN that has no traffic/revenue, they will be sold on hype/dreams just like "normal" domains.
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Old 4th April 2011, 08:00 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

Will demand come from typical "domainers" anyways ?
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Old 4th April 2011, 08:08 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

IDNProspectus.com doesn't resolve, I think that's the problem
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Old 4th April 2011, 11:03 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

each language for IDN's will be a vertical market.

each language will have its miniature IDN Forum bbs soon enough....


IDN's as an asset class...com vs cctld.... this debate will never end...
again each language vertical will be different.

IDN for com/jp will be very different than IDN for com/kr and both vs the dot CN .
(political fear....etc...)

Waiting for ASCII domainer validation....it will never happen.
It is against their 'perceived' financial interest.....

It looks like the Russian and Arabic pop is better than the CJK pop for now...
Especially the com/KOM equivalence ....


Relative to Chinese, I think the business use of the name will be very important.
The idea of IDN use for gargantuan adsense revenue alone seems remote.

Will there be an IDN Frank Schilling ...( by that I mean an IDNer who owns and monetizes
300,000 + IDN domains for ad revenue ???

Frank makes 40 million top line, but has to pay 18 million for renewals.
And he is selling 10,000's of names now, that don't pay his internal registry costs of
$6.50 per name (estimate)....

Buying or selling a domain based on the Google ad metric alone will be a continuous decline model.

100+ new gtld's are coming....
At least for a decade, it should make 1 word/ 2 word / 3 word/ ASCII dot com's stable
for value....IDN or ASCII.


If dot museum/ dot aero/ dot tel/ dot mobi/ dot coop can't fly in a limited universe....

but at 185 K a bet.....let the lemmings on the cliff start diving...

S/
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Old 5th April 2011, 01:25 AM
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Re: Where is the market?

My proposal: do one of those "its like the 90's again for domain names" on John Chow or Jeremy Shoemoney's blogs.
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Old 5th April 2011, 05:00 AM
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Re: Where is the market?

I am still buying and selling ascii whereas the IDN porfolio gathers dust and racks up renewal fees.

Been culling many IDN over the last year,and a small percentage of the non paying ascii but always a difficult choice, was thinking of dropping one that got hardly any traffic mid last year but kept it and sold it for $3500 in Feb-you never know-that's a lot of the problem.
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Old 5th April 2011, 05:49 AM
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Re: Where is the market?

Who cares. Once they start to pay for themselves as a Portfolio, then it is cold dead fingers. We have pretty much been in that mode for the last 12 months and the revenue in Arabic is very encouraging. That is our top earner this month so far. I am expecting new money from other sources, so it is just a question of sitting on the hands. I never really saw selling as the business model. I knew we needed a lot of names to make a good income. We only need to overage $100 bucks a year each and we can all retire, including my son who has not even done college yet.
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Old 5th April 2011, 10:51 AM
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Re: Where is the market?

For each market, there are two possible ways for it to heat up, locals and foreigners, which is pretty much "end users" + "domainers" in ASCII talk.

Domainers will only show interest if any of the following happen:
1) A nicely trending track record of sales (preferably to locals).
2) Rick tells them to jump in
3) More than a few % of domains start earning 2 x money back in renewal fees.

None of this happened with Thai yet, still waiting for Rick to find Thailand on a map and Google is still too non-existent selling ads to make too much with PPC.

Locals (outside a few SEO geeks) will only show interest in Thailand when .com is converted to Thai. Only then will brands get involved and the whole thing gather momentum, and all the local sheep come out of the closet. Until then, IDNs are still "under development" to Thais.

Its not all bad news though. Type-ins to Thai domains are accelerating very nicely. A couple of years ago it was 80% search-based type-ins, and when parking pages got de-indexed, so did 80% of our parking income, ouch. But now we are getting really solid and growing type-ins across the portfolio. Thais are really typing in now, doubled in the last six months. We expect our portfolio to break even in the next 12 months, and grow from there.

Other markets WILL vary !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by domainguru; 5th April 2011 at 10:58 AM.. Reason: added type-in stuff
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Old 5th April 2011, 10:54 AM
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Re: Where is the market?

oh, and btw, I think the essential premise on which your question is based is not sound ... "if IDNs are so hot" ... they clearly aren't yet ... just warming up.
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Old 5th April 2011, 02:30 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

There is a lot of 3 going down if you have the right domains in the right markets.

If you don't have Japanese, Russian and Arabic and the right kinds of domains you will not see it yet. Japanese is very patchy but PPC is phenominal. Russian has been good but is tailing off making people despondent. Arabic is on Steroids at the moment, but short stuff rather Generics mainly.

Don't assume everything is as per the US. Chinese is heating up but brandables seem to get a lot of traffic.

And don't write dot net off either, they often get quite a bit of traffic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
For each market, there are two possible ways for it to heat up, locals and foreigners, which is pretty much "end users" + "domainers" in ASCII talk.

Domainers will only show interest if any of the following happen:
1) A nicely trending track record of sales (preferably to locals).
2) Rick tells them to jump in
3) More than a few % of domains start earning 2 x money back in renewal fees.

None of this happened with Thai yet, still waiting for Rick to find Thailand on a map and Google is still too non-existent selling ads to make too much with PPC.

Locals (outside a few SEO geeks) will only show interest in Thailand when .com is converted to Thai. Only then will brands get involved and the whole thing gather momentum, and all the local sheep come out of the closet. Until then, IDNs are still "under development" to Thais.

Its not all bad news though. Type-ins to Thai domains are accelerating very nicely. A couple of years ago it was 80% search-based type-ins, and when parking pages got de-indexed, so did 80% of our parking income, ouch. But now we are getting really solid and growing type-ins across the portfolio. Thais are really typing in now, doubled in the last six months. We expect our portfolio to break even in the next 12 months, and grow from there.

Other markets WILL vary !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 5th April 2011, 03:41 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

I think you're all seeing it the wrong way. IMHO the problem is not IDNs but domain names itself. Being IDN market a niche of the domain names market it is hurt the most.
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Last edited by jose; 5th April 2011 at 03:41 PM..
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Old 5th April 2011, 07:18 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose View Post
I think you're all seeing it the wrong way. IMHO the problem is not IDNs but domain names itself. Being IDN market a niche of the domain names market it is hurt the most.
I agree. I think most of the domaining world is in a holding pattern waiting to see what happens with the gTLD expansion. Kinda funny... we are wishing it would be quicker, most are wishing it would go away I guess.
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Old 5th April 2011, 08:24 PM
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Re: Where is the market?

i wonder for example what gets Sberbank or Citibank russia to buy ipoteka.rf for example and so on...
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