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-   -   Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru (http://www.idnforums.com/forums/28992-interesting-seo-thread-on-searchengines-ru.html)

555 14th April 2011 04:43 PM

Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Many are reporting great progress with IDN's (No shit but yeah better late then never), and the thread starter has http://Торговля.акциями.рф (Trading Stocks)

http://forum.searchengines.ru/showthread.php?t=580214 but other names are discussed and i checked most are already on page one, some still on page 2 making they're way up.

The keyword to check on Торговля акциями http://google.ru or http://яндекс.рф I still don't see him on Yandex, 2nd on Google for me, but if you look at the site you can see it's 'minimalistic' at best.

555 14th April 2011 04:49 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
And from Israel: http://www.actv-tec.co.il/forum/view...php?f=1&t=1434

Most are not liking Hebrew domains, then some are explaining they have many on page one in google with minimal efforts and i found it today, added the list of sample keywords and the TV campaigns etc.

Funny all these SEO focused people only see the SEO aspect when in fact generic names offer so much more they don't even know about...

555 14th April 2011 05:18 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
1 Attachment(s)
And just found a forum that is built on IDN: www.פורום-קידום-אתרים.com the actual forum page: http://פורום-קידום-אתרים.com/viewforum.php?f=2 (Translates to Forum-Advancing-Sites) makes more sense in Hebrew, something like SEOForum in English...+the hyphens...
There's also that school which is still on the top spot in google for SEO Course (קורס קידום אתרים)

Even today's holiday wishes come with IDN's :D (Attached)

This is a first for me: http://פורום-קידום-אתרים.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=407 One guy is asking: I see the url here is in Hebrew, what's with that new thing? Are Hebrew names better for SEO? So he got one reply telling him: Yeah, Hebrew names are better for SEO...

jose 14th April 2011 05:34 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
And Korea:

http://hdom.ohpy.com
http://cafe.naver.com/domin
http://dodong.com/html/

squirrel 14th April 2011 05:54 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
One thing I'd like to see one day is "scientific" data about how the SERPs CTR of IDNs compare to that of transliterated ASCII domamins. I presume IDNs' CTR > translit CTR but by what order of magnitude ?

555 14th April 2011 06:00 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by squirrel (Bericht 179206)
One thing I'd like to see one day is "scientific" data about how the SERPs CTR of IDNs compare to that of transliterated ASCII domamins. I presume IDNs' CTR > translit CTR but by what order of magnitude ?

Nothing scientific and not even exactly what you asked but for what it's worth...

There's a guy which is in the gifts business in Israel, He purchased מתנות.com (Gifts) from the registrant who had it before.

He had www.GiftStore.co.il before he got מתנות.com, He told me he did 25% of work at most on the IDN and the IDN has been #1 in Google.co.il for around 2years now, when GiftStore.co.il is not on page one at all.

He since bought more and more, recent one he bought i know of is ספא.net and another one which also is #1 in Google which he has: לימוזינה (Limousine)

Explorer 15th April 2011 01:02 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Very interesting thread indeed. The example "торговля акциями" or "trading stocks" has been showing up on the first page in google.ru since late November 2010. People are discovering other similar examples, concluding that cyrillic names definitely help SEO. Who would have thought?

alpha 15th April 2011 03:40 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Explorer (Bericht 179242)
...concluding that cyrillic names definitely help SEO. Who would have thought?

Here's the million dollar question... if the so called Panda update from Google affects idn too, then the benefit of exact match might go before we can even leverage it.

And I could see why G would remove the seo points for exact match domains, afterall with the flood of new TLDs coming, there will be many new exact match domains.

I profess to know nothing on SEO, am keen to hear others opinions.

555 15th April 2011 03:53 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
I am not sure i am buying that argument from google, i mean how many out of all of google's indexed sites are actually exact match keywords? I am not sure how to calculate it but i risk saying it's under 1%, and that is the money 1 percent, when everyone is busy 'socializing' in often embarrassing and more often plain stupid ways (really smart telling the customer you paid 100k to be in front of on TV to look for you on facebook)

You have information about that 1% , the money percent and if you were at the 99% how much would you like hearing how usually untouchable to you generic names can make your business? How much would your ad consultant small or large would like admitting to you "We are the top, no one comes close, we just missed on that one very narrow opportunity very few saw"

As for the case in Russia, remember they all said idn's will never be nothing, then they all agreed they will never be nothing except for a very good way to get your site to your audience via offline media (TV,Print,Billboards etc).

As for the flood of new gTLD's , won't that make the already and only giant around only bigger /memorable? over 100 now remember (cctld's & gTLD's, we know that but users don't).

So let's say google really will no longer value CreditCards.com for a search on Credit Cards, the offline value will remain, the type in value will remain, the memorability and credibility value will remain etc etc. (How much 'only' that is worth to a competitor in an industry with hundreds of businesses?)

All i know, there will always be concerns until there are no more concerns but if you remember how many things held up dev. when you started and where we are now you will see it's moving as quick as it ever did, the progress in last 18 months i think is much greater then progress in the 8.5 years before, and the pace can't go anywhere but higher.

tee1 15th April 2011 04:08 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha (Bericht 179247)
And I could see why G would remove the seo points for exact match domains, afterall with the flood of new TLDs coming, there will be many new exact match domains.

doesnt G weight the extensions now(all things being equal/quality of links) .com/cctlds, .org/.net...... big dropppppp ---> .biz .info ect. so why not shove all the new extensions into the zero weight category until they prove themselves?


btw same here
Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha (Bericht 179247)
I profess to know nothing on SEO, am keen to hear others opinions.


alpha 15th April 2011 04:08 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 555 (Bericht 179249)
I am not sure i am buying that argument from google, i mean how many out of all of google's indexed sites are actually exact match keywords?

Its not the exact match domains that are being specifically targeted, its keyword domains (apparently) - which could be 4 or 5 word long tail names, or equallt I assume, 1 word exact match.

Like I said, I dunno - but keen for some educated thoughts from others.

555 15th April 2011 04:12 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha (Bericht 179251)
educated

Did you try DNF?

Explorer 15th April 2011 04:51 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 555 (Bericht 179249)
I am not sure i am buying that argument from google, i mean how many out of all of google's indexed sites are actually exact match keywords? I am not sure how to calculate it but i risk saying it's under 1%, and that is the money 1 percent, when everyone is busy 'socializing' in often embarrassing and more often plain stupid ways (really smart telling the customer you paid 100k to be in front of on TV to look for you on facebook)

You have information about that 1% , the money percent and if you were at the 99% how much would you like hearing how usually untouchable to you generic names can make your business? How much would your ad consultant small or large would like admitting to you "We are the top, no one comes close, we just missed on that one very narrow opportunity very few saw"

As for the case in Russia, remember they all said idn's will never be nothing, then they all agreed they will never be nothing except for a very good way to get your site to your audience via offline media (TV,Print,Billboards etc).

As for the flood of new gTLD's , won't that make the already and only giant around only bigger /memorable? over 100 now remember (cctld's & gTLD's, we know that but users don't).

So let's say google really will no longer value CreditCards.com for a search on Credit Cards, the offline value will remain, the type in value will remain, the memorability and credibility value will remain etc etc. (How much 'only' that is worth to a competitor in an industry with hundreds of businesses?)

All i know, there will always be concerns until there are no more concerns but if you remember how many things held up dev. when you started and where we are now you will see it's moving as quick as it ever did, the progress in last 18 months i think is much greater then progress in the 8.5 years before, and the pace can't go anywhere but higher.

Google's business is pretty simple - show the customers the most relevant, unique and useful websites. Google will constantly modify its algorithm to achieve that goal. That's why I think minisites (even with great generic domain names) with lots of ads and little content will eventually drop off from the top positions. So, will it be Panda update this month or Polar Bear update next month - don't expect a minisite to stay in the top for too long.

The example above illustrates that Google still gives a domain name some weight, but only up to a point.

Now, if you want to put in a serious effort and develop a great useful website with lots of unique content using a great generic domain, that's another story. You'll always have a leg up on "no generic domain" type of a website.

domainguru 15th April 2011 05:26 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha (Bericht 179247)
Here's the million dollar question... if the so called Panda update from Google affects idn too, then the benefit of exact match might go before we can even leverage it.

And I could see why G would remove the seo points for exact match domains, afterall with the flood of new TLDs coming, there will be many new exact match domains.

I profess to know nothing on SEO, am keen to hear others opinions.

New TLDs won't have a big impact on Google thinking. Google factors in many things, it is very sophisticated, its why you never see .ws domains at the top of the rankings, or even .biz or .bz for that matter.

BTW, Panda looks like a great update to me, and yet another reason why I keep banging the drum of "if you are going to develop, develop real sites, not mini-sites, "random" text sites or other bs" ..... because ultimately, its the only way Google will rank you in the near and distant future. From Matt Cutts:

----------
This update is designed to reduce rankings for low quality sites—sites which are low-value add for users, copy content from other websites or sites that are just not very useful. At the same time, it will provide better rankings for high quality sites—sites with original content and information such as research, in-depth reports, thoughtful analysis and so on."
-----------

Bravo!

squirrel 15th April 2011 05:28 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
Tim is right, when comparing exact match domains in the SERPs, SEOMoz has found that dot com was favored the most : http://www.seomoz.org/blog/exact-mat...r-time-limited

I don't see this changing as long as dot com remains the TLD of choice for quality websites. Please let's all do what the Snows do when selling to end users : have them develop the domain within a few months. This is good for everyone.

Now to answer Alpha's Q :
Quote:

then the benefit of exact match might go before we can even leverage it.
¸

The answer I think is no, it will never go, at least in the foreseeable future. Firstly, have a look at Cutts video where he (tries to) explains how keywords domains are treated by the algo. Unconvincing explanation at best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAWFv43qubI

Secondly, (555 you'll like this one ;) )and I think this is the most interesting argument because I don't see it often, I think Google has evolved to a point where it is forced to rank exact match domains (dot coms at least) well if they have reasonable content and inbound links, etc. Why ? Because a lot of people use Google to direct navigate now. They type a query but know in advance what link they are going to click on. This means that if you have "Trading Stocks dot com", at one point Google will have to rank you well for "trading stocks" because it just doesn't know if you as a user are looking for tradingstocksdotcom or something else. I'm exaggerating here, Google most certainly monitors CTR as part of their algo but you get my point. If you have a cool website on an exact match, you'll forever benefit from this grey area where G can't know for sure if the current user is direct navigating or not.. (To make it even more complicated, a user not intending to direct navigate making a query for "trading stocks" will most probably click on tradingstocksdotcom if he sees it in the SERPs.. )

To emphasize my point, let's just think about all the SEOs currently evangilizing the power of "brands", brand this, brand that, brands rank, you must become a brand etc.. I think this is symptomatic, in part, of the direct navigation pattern discussed previously (and reported by TechCrunch by the way, I didnt make that up). SEOs emphasis on brands (good website, Social presence, Twitter account, followers etc.) is their way of showing Google that they have mindshare and are worthy of the top spots.

Exact match domains have that inherent "mindshare".. very difficult for Google to deny that as long as quality content is there too.

squirrel 26th May 2011 03:29 PM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
http://www.seobook.com/category-killer-domain-names

Quote:

The smart money is now saying that domain names are generally significantly overpriced, especially as an asset class valued based on SEO potential.
Where do you place your wager?

squirrel 29th October 2011 12:41 AM

Re: Interesting SEO thread on SearchEngines.ru
 
http://www.seobythesea.com/2011/10/g...rcial-queries/


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