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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 19th April 2011, 09:16 PM
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BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

According to the current rules:

"BIN prices for individual domain auctions must be stated at the start of the auction and cannot be changed once a bid is placed. BIN prices may ONLY be adjusted on domains without any bids."

If I remember correctly this was instituted because on several occasions a BIN was lowered substantially and pretty much the first bidder to see the reduced bin bought the domain- this aggravated the other bidders. As a buyer I participated in a few of these auctions.

As a seller though I now think this rule may need to be tweaked. In my current auctions the buyers (lead bidders) have almost all asked me if I would consider lowering the bin(s), but since I try to "play fair" I direct them to the forum rules. So in this case, the buyers and seller would like to lower the BIN, but it is against policy.

Now to the point. Wouldn't it make sense to adjust the rule to state something like the BIN may not be lowered to less than 1.5X of the current highest bid or better yet state that the bin may be adjusted after an auction runs for at least 7 days?

Or maybe this rule does not need to exist at all. Is it really the forum's job to regulate this? After all, if sellers do not play fair or piss off buyers with sudden substantial bin reductions it will obvious aggravate the buyers which ultimately damages their own reputation(s).
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Old 19th April 2011, 09:45 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
According to the current rules:

"BIN prices for individual domain auctions must be stated at the start of the auction and cannot be changed once a bid is placed. BIN prices may ONLY be adjusted on domains without any bids."

If I remember correctly this was instituted because on several occasions a BIN was lowered substantially and pretty much the first bidder to see the reduced bin bought the domain- this aggravated the other bidders. As a buyer I participated in a few of these auctions.

As a seller though I now think this rule may need to be tweaked. In my current auctions the buyers (lead bidders) have almost all asked me if I would consider lowering the bin(s), but since I try to "play fair" I direct them to the forum rules. So in this case, the buyers and seller would like to lower the BIN, but it is against policy.

Now to the point. Wouldn't it make sense to adjust the rule to state something like the BIN may not be lowered to less than 1.5X of the current highest bid or better yet state that the bin may be adjusted after an auction runs for at least 7 days?

Or maybe this rule does not need to exist at all. Is it really the forum's job to regulate this? After all, if sellers do not play fair or piss off buyers with sudden substantial bin reductions it will obvious aggravate the buyers which ultimately damages their own reputation(s).
Personally I think BINs should hold as little importance as possible. Auctions are auctions and should remain as such. Participants shouldn't have to hang around auctions seeing if a BIN has been set.

And of course, the more rules there are, the more difficult all this stuff gets. how many people actually read auction rules properly?

I wouldn't even have BINs. Having a reserve is as complicated as it should get.
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Old 19th April 2011, 09:58 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post

I wouldn't even have BINs. Having a reserve is as complicated as it should get.
Well you think differently than 99% of auction sites out there.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:01 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post

And of course, the more rules there are, the more difficult all this stuff gets. how many people actually read auction rules properly?
I agree. Or follow them.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:05 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
Well you think differently than 99% of auction sites out there.
Dunno. Only site I ever buy BIN from is eBay and that is a specific situation where sellers are selling "retail goods" i.e. BIN is a way of living for them and goods are regularly sold at BIN because that is the seller's MO.

How many names are actually sold at BIN at IDNF, 1%, 2%? Do you want to make the rules any more complicated if the number really is that low?
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:10 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

I see DG's point for having a reserve price only and no BIN, but
BIN is great for buyers that don't have time to participate in the auctions.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:14 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Dunno. Only site I ever buy BIN from is eBay and that is a specific situation where sellers are selling "retail goods" i.e. BIN is a way of living for them and goods are regularly sold at BIN because that is the seller's MO.
Really, you need to surf the net a little more. Even check out other domain forums. The make offer section is really an auction with a bin. People make offers and the seller places a bin which he/she slowly lowers. Somewhat different, but only because there is a hidden reserve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
How many names are actually sold at BIN at IDNF, 1%, 2%?
I could only speculate like you. If the BIN is "realistic" it could happen quite frequently. BINs occur on the forum all the time in the for sale section.

Quote:
Do you want to make the rules any more complicated if the number really is that low?
Please read the last statement of my first post.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:21 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
Really, you need to surf the net a little more.
Yep. Next time I'm online I'll try surfing the web, sure its fun.

As for BINs being great for buyers, how many times have buyers actually bought names at BIN because they are "too busy", seriously? Its not like IDN goods are moving out of the door faster than anyone can track ....

Seems to me the place for BINs is in the For Sale section. That's where you say you have a domain for sale and how much you want for it. Different from the auction situation.

Anything that sells more domains is good. But the problem here is lack of buyers, nothing else. Adding another tool to the sellers arsenal isn't going to help buyers turn up.

Last edited by domainguru; 19th April 2011 at 10:30 PM..
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:27 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
Yep. Next time I'm online I'll try surfing the web, sure its fun.

As for BINs being great for buyers, how many times have buyers actually bought names at BIN because they are "too busy", seriously? Its not like IDN goods are moving out of the door faster than anyone can track ....
If you think eBay is the only online venue that uses BINs the Thai Internet must be different.

BINs are good for sellers as a premium may be paid by an impulse purchase.

BINs are good for buyers as it allows them to acquire a sought after domain immediately...potentially at a discount.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:31 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Btw, irrespective of whether BINs are needed they exist on THIS forum. My point really is do we need tight rules regulating those BINs especially if people are not following those rules anyway.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:35 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
If you think eBay is the only online venue that uses BINs the Thai Internet must be different.

BINs are good for sellers as a premium may be paid by an impulse purchase.

BINs are good for buyers as it allows them to acquire a sought after domain immediately...potentially at a discount.
I didn't say eBay is the only venue, I said I had only bought from eBay at BIN, not the same thing. I've spent the last 3 months in the UK buying kit from the UK / Hong Kong etc. Most not even auction sites, just sites selling stuff at good prices, what you would call BIN. That's not "waste weeks on an auction and then someone set a BIN later", just good prices and knowing exactly what you will get if you click a button.

Therefore if you want buyers to buy at BIN, offer the domain in the FOR SALE section at the BIN price, simple. That's what customers expect.

Best advice ever on the web "Keep it simple, stupid"

Last edited by domainguru; 19th April 2011 at 10:37 PM..
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:47 PM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
Therefore if you want buyers to buy at BIN, offer the domain in the FOR SALE section at the BIN price, simple.
Again, I disagree.

If I sent you my portfolio, could you price it all perfectly? Sure you could pick a low price that you know a particular domain would sell at, but could you pinpoint the market price? I'll answer for you. No. Auctions allow you to gauge market demand much better than FOR SALE listings. We are not selling a commodity here.

And we've seen that auctions can drag on for a long time. You've bid yourself on forum auctions that lasted longer than a month. That's a little ridiculous. BINs eliminate that.
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Old 20th April 2011, 01:49 AM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
Again, I disagree.

If I sent you my portfolio, could you price it all perfectly? Sure you could pick a low price that you know a particular domain would sell at, but could you pinpoint the market price? I'll answer for you. No. Auctions allow you to gauge market demand much better than FOR SALE listings. We are not selling a commodity here.

And we've seen that auctions can drag on for a long time. You've bid yourself on forum auctions that lasted longer than a month. That's a little ridiculous. BINs eliminate that.
BINs eliminate long auctions when someone actually activates one. In all other cases, they are a waste of time. If you want a shorter auction, start higher or have a bigger minimum increment, or even a shorter space between bids.

More to the point, as a potential buyer, I certainly don't want to have to worry constantly a BIN has been set some small amount above what I have just bid. It would just mean I wouldn't bid, end of. We all have to feel good in an auction, S or B. BINs that can be set any time just add stress.

Every system has to be as fair as possible to both B and S. And I come back to the central point. Its buyers we are missing at IDNF, everyone can see that. Add something that is convenient to sellers, and not nice to buyers, no problem, just don't come crying when sales go south even more.

Everyone here should be looking for things to attract buyers, not complicate things for them. I know I am put off bidding on an auction here by "small things", such as arguments over translation, bogus Google figures (haha). If you want to add more stuff for me to worry over, please do.

Maybe that is just me, I am a worrier. But we are in a service industry here. You need to convert every single worrier you can to more than that. People have a choice here. They don't "need" our IDNs. They can and do exercise their choice to do nothing. Ask Jose or Wot how many of their auctions end in people exercising their right to do nothing.
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Old 20th April 2011, 02:19 AM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Difficult to say.
As a buyer, I'd like the possibility to at least match an exercised BIN lowered midway through an auction.
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Old 20th April 2011, 02:24 AM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
Difficult to say.
As a buyer, I'd like the possibility to at least match an exercised BIN lowered midway through an auction.
Well that's not a BIN then is it? Its just a way to quickly "up" the auction price and then both parties would think they have won. Who needs that? Just more confusion....

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Old 20th April 2011, 02:27 AM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
BINs eliminate long auctions when someone actually activates one. In all other cases, they are a waste of time. If you want a shorter auction, start higher or have a bigger minimum increment, or even a shorter space between bids.

More to the point, as a potential buyer, I certainly don't want to have to worry constantly a BIN has been set some small amount above what I have just bid. It would just mean I wouldn't bid, end of. We all have to feel good in an auction, S or B. BINs that can be set any time just add stress.

Every system has to be as fair as possible to both B and S. And I come back to the central point. Its buyers we are missing at IDNF, everyone can see that. Add something that is convenient to sellers, and not nice to buyers, no problem, just don't come crying when sales go south even more.

Everyone here should be looking for things to attract buyers, not complicate things for them. I know I am put off bidding on an auction here by "small things", such as arguments over translation, bogus Google figures (haha). If you want to add more stuff for me to worry over, please do.

Maybe that is just me, I am a worrier. But we are in a service industry here. You need to convert every single worrier you can to more than that. People have a choice here. They don't "need" our IDNs. They can and do exercise their choice to do nothing. Ask Jose or Wot how many of their auctions end in people exercising their right to do nothing.
It's hard for me to keep responding as it seems as though you are not even reading my posts. Err maybe just ignoring them.

In my first post I said:

"...if sellers do not play fair or piss off buyers with sudden substantial bin reductions it will obvious aggravate the buyers which ultimately damages their own reputation(s)."

I am not suggesting that we screw over buyers. I think we should do what's best for the community as a whole. Let's not forget that the reason for posting this thread in the first place is because 4 current bidders, yes 4 bidders, pm'ed me and asked me to reduce the bins. Sounds to me it is an option that all parties want, not just the sellers.

Anyway, as stated originally I'd like to hear opinions specifically about the current rules not just whether people like BINs. Afterall, BINs currently do exist and probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon!
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Old 20th April 2011, 02:39 AM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

We are always open to improve the rules for sales and auctions. Your suggestion is a good one and MOD staff is open to work with forum members to implement ideas that facilitate more sales and auctions. We would be interested to get more feedback on this thread from the active buyers and sellers.
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Old 20th April 2011, 02:46 AM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
It's hard for me to keep responding as it seems as though you are not even reading my posts. Err maybe just ignoring them.

In my first post I said:

"...if sellers do not play fair or piss off buyers with sudden substantial bin reductions it will obvious aggravate the buyers which ultimately damages their own reputation(s)."

I am not suggesting that we screw over buyers. I think we should do what's best for the community as a whole. Let's not forget that the reason for posting this thread in the first place is because 4 current bidders, yes 4 bidders, pm'ed me and asked me to reduce the bins. Sounds to me it is an option that all parties want, not just the sellers.

Anyway, as stated originally I'd like to hear opinions specifically about the current rules not just whether people like BINs. Afterall, BINs currently do exist and probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon!
They are just looking for a great deal for themselves. What about the other people in the auction, the ones that weren't around when you "did the deal".

Of course every buyer wants a lower BIN. Who is going to email you for a higher one??? Just one step from "lets change the BIN" to "lets deal in PM half-way through" ....

Clearly I am not online enough to have any clue about this but it seems to me the two don't mix very well. Either have a public auction or don't. Very simple. Ever decreasing BINs just don't work.
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Old 20th April 2011, 03:07 AM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
They are just looking for a great deal for themselves. What about the other people in the auction, the ones that weren't around when you "did the deal".

Of course every buyer wants a lower BIN. Who is going to email you for a higher one??? Just one step from "lets change the BIN" to "lets deal in PM half-way through" ....

Clearly I am not online enough to have any clue about this but it seems to me the two don't mix very well. Either have a public auction or don't. Very simple. Ever decreasing BINs just don't work.
Well you neither buy or sell a lot so it may be hard for you to relate to either position.

For example, the bin right now on phone.com is dramatically different than the high bid. No I don't think substantially lowering the bin would be acceptable, but a slow reduction to me should be fine.

Anyway, No offense, but I'm done trying to convince you of this quite frankly anything. An impossible task.
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Old 20th April 2011, 03:35 AM
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Re: BINs on Auctions: Does the rule need changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
I am not suggesting that we screw over buyers. I think we should do what's best for the community as a whole. Let's not forget that the reason for posting this thread in the first place is because 4 current bidders, yes 4 bidders, pm'ed me and asked me to reduce the bins. Sounds to me it is an option that all parties want, not just the sellers.
Here is my 2 cents...Whoever sees the BIN reduction FIRST would have an obvious advantage to make the purchase, thus pissing off others. Some people's mobile phones have email notification. I do not. Huge disadvantage. Most of the BINs on these forums are ridiculously high. BIN prices should somehow be regulated close to the current market value if possible.

Perhaps sellers should pay a small fee to use the BIN feature which would be like a donation toward the maintenance of this website and/or a charitable organization. This would keep the BIN prices realistic.

I know I don't carry a whole lot of weight around here but i'm commenting because I am one of the 4 bidders.
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