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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22nd April 2011, 01:14 AM
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after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

A couple of days ago it was 10 years since Thai IDNs could be registered, yawn.

Finally today, some good news....

Watching Thai TV Channel 3 and noticed the presenters had sweatshirts on with a Thai .com plastered on the front

Turns out to be:

เรื่องเล่าเช้านี้.com

which is "This Morning's Story" or just "Morning News" for short.

It just directs to the main Channel 3 new site, at:

http://morning-news.bectero.com/intro.php

But hey, its a big step forward when a big organization starts using IDNs, and evidence that Thai IDNs will (eventually) have a big market outside crazy domainers.

Would love to send a pic in but my camera's battery has just ran out and I haven't got my charger with me, aggh!!

On another matter, Google haven't even fixed their search listings to show the "more results" properly for IDNs. Its shows the xn-- version:

"ผลการค้นหาเพิ่มเติมจาก xn--72cg9bwbl0cxbb2am1hec0ietd.com » "

Worse than that, click the link and google fails to get any results. Classic. I remember reporting this to Google when we first launched the Thai games site.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 01:55 AM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

That's good news for you, trafficdomainer and others who have invested in thai. 10 years wow
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Old 22nd April 2011, 02:02 AM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Better renew my remaining few Thai IDN, they could easily have value by 2020 (-:
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Old 22nd April 2011, 02:05 AM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

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Originally Posted by Wot View Post
Better renew my remaining few Thai IDN, they could easily have value by 2020 (-:
Yep. I think you have the timeline right. So much for things happening "instantly" on the Net
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Old 22nd April 2011, 02:19 AM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

It took a few years before the internet became popular too.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 22nd April 2011 at 02:19 AM..
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Old 22nd April 2011, 09:27 AM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Very good! I feel your happiness and wish you more cases like this.

It may be a little off topic but I have been recently thinking (actually worrying about Firefox's position towards IDNs). Do you think that their attitude will change some day? This is really pissing me off since we started putting too much effort and developing the sites. Any good news on this front? Thanks.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 02:40 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

This is surely another good development but not the first time Thais have waken up to Thai IDNs. After เกมส์.com (Games.com in Thai) has been consistently top 3 in Thailand for the keyword "games" for years, around early 2009, the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) was the first major organization that I am aware of to launch a Thai IDN "เล่าสู่กันฟัง.com" (can be translated to something like share your [tourism] story. The domain was named after a famous Thai song produced by Thongchai Mcintyre (Thailand's equivalent of Michael Jackson) and endorsed by him.

The campaign using the Thai IDN was heavily promoted on TV and was a huge success and the site was professionally done (praised by many Thais to be very beautiful). TAT used the site to promote Thai tourism among Thais to take photos of travel destinations around Thailand and share them online for a prize competition. When the campaign ended, they took off the content and now looks like the media company put up their English content on the site about Thai tourism instead, shame.

Subsequently, the Thai government also launched "ช่วยชาติ.com" (help the nation.com), a economic stimulus campaign to encourage Thais to use the cheques the government gave out to spend to help stimulate the economy. When the campaign ended, they again took down the content.

Thai IDNs are definitely going more mainstream everyday and with idn.th going idn.idn "โดเมน.ไทย" as of March 11 this year, this has definitely brought further awareness among Thais about Thai IDNs. Already, there are many Thai IDNs on the first page for many keywords. So all signs are definitely encouraging for Thai IDNs.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 04:27 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Yeah, I remember we talked about the tourism site, but I didn't see it on TV unfortunately. Also like you say, a real shame they abandon these sites once the promotion is over. Guess that's the way of the world with project budgets etc.

As for the political site, ช่วยชาติ.com, I avidly avoid all Thai politic / economic news when humanly possible, find it far too crazy and depressing, so I'm never like to come across that kind of site or promotion for it.

Just a real buzz seeing a Thai IDN plastered on (famous) news presenters' sweatshirts, and that show must run a good couple of hours. Wonder if they'll wear them tomorrow as well?

Its not really a surprise Thai IDN use has been limited to SEO + promotional campaigns. The brake factors have always been:

1) IE6 usage - massive deterrent in the past, rapidly declining use now, but still 10% or so, so another 6 to 12 months for that to be totally eradicated.

2) FireFox xn-- nonsense. Firefox usage appears to have stalled at around 15% in Thailand but that is still a massive deterrent to any Internet company or ad agency thinking about using an IDN short or long term, especially if you add it to the 10% still stuck on IE6.

3) Getting .com into Thai. 2012, hopefully ....

Once all these are in place, we have the chance of a real take off i.e. wide use of Thai IDNs across sectors, being widely advertised, much improved type-ins etc.

So it looks like 2012 for a big boost (IE6 eradicated plus .com into Thai), and who knows about Firefox, nobody I have spoken to.

But still, its taken 10 years to get this far, I think 2015 - 2020 is a reasonable guestimate for when Thai IDNs will fully mature and show what they are really capable of. Should make my son happy at least
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Old 22nd April 2011, 05:18 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Whether it's เล่าสู่กันฟัง.com , เรื่องเล่าช่าวนี้.com or ช่วยชาติ.com, the lesson is clear that Thai script is best used in domain names targetting Thais if you want them to be easily remembered and correctly typed. Imagine, if they promoted these sites as ascii names, there will be so many variations on the ways to spell them and Thais won't be sure how to type them correctly to reach these sites.

It is understandable that เรื่องเล่าช่าวนี้.com would forward to an ascii site as IDNs are not fully supported with the old browser like IE6 not supporting IDN and Firefox still showing xn--. But the message is clear that Thais prefer to use our own script to type our domains and the domain was promoted because they want viewers to type the domain in Thai and not English as it is much more memorable, otherwise if it's just for vanity, they would have used เรื่องเล่าช่าวนี้.คอม (.com in Thai), which doesn't resolve at the moment. And as mentioned with .ไทย (.Thai) now being live, people can really appreciate Thai domain name in its full blooded form.

What's interesting about Firefox though is the fact that a name like เสื้อผ้า.th (Clothes.th in Thai) is displayed in unicode as .th has been whitelisted but เสื้อผ้า.ไทย (Clothes.Thai in Thai) is displayed in punycodes as xn--t3c1ajvw6c9cc.xn--o3cw4h/ . It looks like Thnic hasn't applied for .ไทย to be whitelisted by Firefox or tired or haven't got to going through the silly process. What a shame though why Verisign and Firefox can't come to an agreement on this to get .com and .net IDNs resolved properly.

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 22nd April 2011 at 05:47 PM..
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Old 22nd April 2011, 05:26 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer View Post
It looks like thnic hasn't applied for .ไทย to be whitelisted by Firefox or tired or haven't got to going through the silly process.
.th is in here : http://www.iana.org/domains/idn-tables/ which is referenced by Mozilla. I guess they presumed the same policy applied to .ไทย
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Old 22nd April 2011, 05:39 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Yeah, Thnic probably assumed that they were going to get .ไทย resolved by Firefox automatically. Thanks for the list Squirrel, I can see that Saudi Arabia is the only country that got both their .sa and .السعودية whitelisted separately with Firefox:

.SA Arabic language 1.0 2007-07-20 Saudi Network Information Center
.السعودية Arabic language 1.0 2010-01-01 Saudi Network Information Center

Looks like .ru and .cn haven't applied for their idn.idn names to be whitelisted either

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 22nd April 2011 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 22nd April 2011, 06:49 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Mozilla actually state this:

"Mozilla Firefox maintains an internal whitelist of top-level domains (TLDs; e.g. .org or .uk) whose registries have appropriate anti-spoofing policies, to make sure two different people cannot register names which are confusingly similar to the eye. IDN domains whose TLDs are not on the whitelist display as "xn--something" (a.k.a. A-labels or Punycode) in the UI. This approach means an IDN URL either works in Firefox everywhere, or nowhere - it is not dependent on the settings of each user's computer. "

This has very little if anything to do with the code points IANA lists on their site. An anti-spoofing policy surely has to be more than a list of code points allowed?

Then they go on to say this:

"The 11 example.test TLDs are whitelisted in Firefox 3 and above, and so no further configuration is required. Work is under way to ascertain the anti-spoofing policies of the registries responsible for the new IDN TLDs, and then whitelist those as well. Mozilla actively recommends against ordinary end-users adding TLDs to the whitelist manually. "

Perhaps when .com is added as an IDN, that will qualify as "new TLDs" and Mozilla will automatically whitelist those as well.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 07:57 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

For those who are interested to view the เรื่องเล้าเช้านี้.com logo on the news reporters' Tshirts, you can go to: http://morning-news.bectero.com/เรื่...1104221-9.html

The best shot for the domain name I feel is at 01:15 5:56

I would have taken the screen shot and post it here but it seems the file size is larger than what is allowed here and I am not sure how to resize the file without Photoshop being installed on my computer.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 08:09 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Nice to see local adaptation beginning, each country in it's stages...

TrafficDomainer, you can always use paint for things like resizing and if i can deal with it you definitely can.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 08:12 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
I think 2015 - 2020 is a reasonable guestimate for when Thai IDNs will fully mature and show what they are really capable of. Should make my son happy at least
I think many will be surprised how much quicker it happens when it 'starts'/gets to a certain point. Limiting the US market to Cyrillic domains only would be as welcome as limiting the Russian market to Latin only even today, whatever anyone wants is no longer relevant, good luck trying to effect what majority of users want...

Last edited by 555; 22nd April 2011 at 08:14 PM..
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Old 22nd April 2011, 08:20 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer View Post
For those who are interested to view the เรื่องเล้าเช้านี้.com logo on the news reporters' Tshirts, you can go to: http://morning-news.bectero.com/เรื่...1104221-9.html

The best shot for the domain name I feel is at 01:15 5:56

I would have taken the screen shot and post it here but it seems the file size is larger than what is allowed here and I am not sure how to resize the file without Photoshop being installed on my computer.
One of the few things I can do.

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Old 22nd April 2011, 08:26 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Thanks about the tip 555, would have followed through but thanks to IDN for helping out
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Old 22nd April 2011, 08:28 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

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Thanks about the tip 555, would have followed through but thanks to IDN for helping out
I like to show off.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 09:00 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

Quote:
Originally Posted by 555 View Post
I think many will be surprised how much quicker it happens when it 'starts'/gets to a certain point. Limiting the US market to Cyrillic domains only would be as welcome as limiting the Russian market to Latin only even today, whatever anyone wants is no longer relevant, good luck trying to effect what majority of users want...
Sure, I was just trying to be careful with my words (for a change) - "fully mature" means everything is really finally in place, locals understand it, and adopt it, and the snowball effect takes place.

Hopefully much sooner, but hey, I was saying that in 2003. 3 swallows don't make a summer unfortunately.
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Old 27th April 2011, 10:23 PM
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Re: after 10 years ... finally Thai(s) wake up to IDNs

oh, and this one as well:

สิ่งเล็กเล็ก.com

Its a promo domain for a Thai film that was out last year.

It was actually printed on a paper "note book" I have been using the last year but never noticed it until now, doh!
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