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Old 20th July 2011, 08:33 PM
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.рус ???

Not sure when this was released, found it on webnames.ru. Anyone heard anything about this?

Домен .РУС объединит русскоязычное население планеты


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http://www.webnames.ru/scripts/news.pl?news_id=769

Russian domain registrar Webnames.ru and Language Centre together with the Ukrainian Internet Network Information Center sent a letter to ICANN with a proposal to delegate the root of the Cyrillic domain. RUS for use by the global Russian-speaking community.

The letter addressed to Chairman Peter Dengate ICANN Board and ICANN President Thrush Rod Beckstrom, passed ICANN representative for Eastern Europe Veni Markovski director Sergei Webnames.ru ball, director of the Language Centre and the Internet Chairman Alexei Sozonovym procedural committee Ukrainian Network Information Center Yuri Kargopolovym to open today Singapore Congress of ICANN.

"We support the efforts of ICANN to expand the space of general Top Level Domain and are confident that this global Russian-speaking community will be able to set their own top-level domain dedicated to promoting their language, culture and identity, using a string. ENG.

RUS is the string to the first three characters which begins with the first word indicating the Russian Language. Language, spoken by 300 million people living on Earth. For the 170 million Russian language is essential, for 130 million - the second language. Russian language has official status in Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Moldova, Norway, Ukraine, United States. To speak Russian people living in Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Israel, Mongolia, Finland, Germany, France, Canada and Australia. Russian language an official language for UN international organizations, UNESCO, IAEA, WHO, ICAO, CIS, EvaAzES, CSTO, SCO, SDA, OSCE, BRICS

We hope that through our joint efforts domain. RUS unite all people on Earth speak Russian language. "- Said in a letter

"We have been conducting discussions with ICANN on increasing the representation of the Russian language on the web. Domain. RU launched by us in Russia in 2003, unfortunately similar in spelling to the Paraguayan domain and can not claim to yield to the global network.. RUS meets all the requirements of ICANN. " - The director of the Russian-speaking Internet Center Alexei Sozonov

Director Yuriy Goncharuk USITS said: "The Ukrainian Internet community loves and makes extensive use of Russian language, so we are encouraged to actively support the proposal of our Russian colleagues to submit a joint bid on a domain. ENG. We have everything you need to participate in this project and we hope that ICANN going to meet us, as well as the domain. RBM "



About Webnames.ru

-------------

Webnames.ru (LLC Ragtime), the Russian domain name registrar, has been operating since 2001 on its portal, the company provides services Webnames.ru iupravleniya register domains, web hosting, domain auction, free DNS service, convenient WHOIS interface and many other useful and unique services. The company has an extensive network of partners across Russia, CIS and abroad. Webnames.ru is an accredited registrar in the national domain zone of the Russian Federation RU SU WS CC TV ME KZ TW, Russian-speaking areas of the Republic of Uzbekistan who do not have FES, and is accredited by ICANN to register domain names in zones COM NET ORG BIZ INFO MOBI NAME PRO AERO JOBS TRAVEL ASIA TEL .

About INO RCI

-------------

Autonomous Nonprofit Organization Language Centre Administrator Internet domain registry. RU. The mission of the ELN RCI is to organize the functioning of the Russian domain name system, with its primary objective the expansion of the global Internet for the benefit of the Russian-speaking Internet community.

On USITS

-------------

Association of Enterprises "Ukrainian Network Information Center" (or USITS UANIC) in accordance with the laws of Ukraine carries out the administration of the address space of Ukrainian segment of Internet. USITS authorized Ukrainian government for this activity is controlled USITS Coordinating Council, which includes representatives of government agencies and nongovernmental organizations of market participants - telecom operators association and the Internet. USITS since 2003, actively supports the development process using the Cyrillic alphabet on the Internet. In March 2011 ICANN granted the request USITS and the Ukrainian government and Ukrainian Cyrillic reserved for top-level domain (IDN ccTLD)
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Old 21st July 2011, 11:59 AM
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Re: .рус ???

This is from the same icann accredited registrar that sold and continues to sell alternate root domains.

I think they're .рус plan is only further showing even they always knew they stand no chance in getting that very same 'tld' they are offering for sale (.ком .нет .орг), so i guess what's left to do now, as now sooner then later they won't be able to continue pulling it off with the alternate root names so they came up with this.
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Old 21st July 2011, 05:29 PM
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Re: .рус ???

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Originally Posted by 555 View Post
This is from the same icann accredited registrar that sold and continues to sell alternate root domains.

I think they're .рус plan is only further showing even they always knew they stand no chance in getting that very same 'tld' they are offering for sale (.ком .нет .орг), so i guess what's left to do now, as now sooner then later they won't be able to continue pulling it off with the alternate root names so they came up with this.

In your oppinion does it pose a threat if it is released before the .kom?
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Old 22nd July 2011, 08:37 AM
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Re: .рус ???

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Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
In your oppinion does it pose a threat if it is released before the .kom?
Not sure of how you define a threat but at this point and time i personally see nothing that will stop .com from only growing and likely more then even some here can imagine once China , India and other countries get's the ability to register idn.idn domains that will resolve that way once registered.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 04:38 PM
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Re: .рус ???

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Originally Posted by 555 View Post
Not sure of how you define a threat but at this point and time i personally see nothing that will stop .com from only growing and likely more then even some here can imagine once China , India and other countries get's the ability to register idn.idn domains that will resolve that way once registered.
Well what i mean is that currently .py is implanted in memory of russians worldwide.
.pyc is a very close match. Since .py will not be allowed in cirillyc script, the closest match to it is .pyc

IMO This kind of resembles .co /.com situation.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 05:07 PM
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Re: .рус ???

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Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
IMO This kind of resembles .co /.com situation.
Assuming that it is, would you consider .co a threat to .com? I think any tld that is compared to .com is given way too much credit.

Last edited by 555; 22nd July 2011 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 22nd July 2011, 05:41 PM
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Re: .рус ???

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Originally Posted by 555 View Post
Assuming that it is, would you consider .co a threat to .com? I think any tld that is compared to .com is given way too much credit.

if it was .co vs .col I would consider it as a threat since it is for purpose of use in colombia. I don't see it as a threat to .com because its just 2 different markets, but .py vs .pyc is for the same market and very similar in spelling. Therefore:. I see it as competition to .KOM since .py is already implanted in their memory.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 06:15 PM
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Re: .рус ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
if it was .co vs .col I would consider it as a threat since it is for purpose of use in colombia. I don't see it as a threat to .com because its just 2 different markets, but .py vs .pyc is for the same market and very similar in spelling. Therefore:. I see it as competition to .KOM since .py is already implanted in their memory.
So since there's ascii .ru, you say they have '.ру' (which will never exist) implemented in 'they're' memories and .рус is similar to .ру which you say will give it some instant recognition in addition to it being i would assume a fairly known and understandable abbreviation to the country name Russia - Россия yet i am not sure where is this conflicting or competing with .com - .ком?
It may become a new tld that will add choice to the existing many tld's currently in use but i am not sure how it will ever come close to acheiving .ком 'status'.
I don't think you can find many if any in Russia which heard of .ru but not of .com yet i am sure you will quickly find many that heard nothing of .рус , surely not as a tld which may also lead to many will try and go to e.g москва.ру when and if they ever see a live .рус just like many may visit Moscow.com when they may see Moscow.co

There's always also the possibility that ICANN won't approve a .рус and we won't ever know for sure, if Greece could not get .ελ since it resembles latin characters even that there is no Latin .ελ tld then i think .рус have much better chances to be declined with it's confusing similarity to Paraguay's .py even though there is a character difference however i truthfully wouldn't worry about it if it is approved.

Anyone can choose to be an experiment bunny in many fields of life and in some instances it can be a problem for a business but i think it's not at all a problem for the domain business. You can't sign 2 contracts with 2 insurance companies for a domain you have in Cyrillic, only with one company.
The 100's of other companies will also some how find an address at some point but neither of the addresses they can possibly get would enjoy the many benefits .com gets on first glance.

I can't wait to see what's around the corner for all of us because repeating the same things for so long is tiring and the fact so many see such a narrow picture doesn't help
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Old 22nd July 2011, 06:39 PM
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Re: .рус ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
Therefore:. I see it as competition to .KOM since .py is already implanted in their memory.
Which makes it confusingly similar to the existing .ru ccTLD, which means users would try .рус when looking for .ru sites on their cyrillic keyboard. Thus .рус should be awarded only to .ru and aliased.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 07:15 PM
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Re: .рус ???

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Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
Which makes it confusingly similar to the existing .ru ccTLD, which means users would try .рус when looking for .ru sites on their cyrillic keyboard. Thus .рус should be awarded only to .ru and aliased.
I think we have bingo ...
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Old 22nd July 2011, 08:01 PM
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Re: .рус ???

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Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
Which makes it confusingly similar to the existing .ru ccTLD, which means users would try .рус when looking for .ru sites on their cyrillic keyboard. Thus .рус should be awarded only to .ru and aliased.
You and this guy which used to or still works for ru center (nic.ru) think alike (From July 17,2008 ):

"- What happens to those domains that were registered in the zone. RU, with the launch. RUS?

- After completing the procedure of the application and the appearance of the zone. RUS servers ICANN, all second-level domains in the zone. RU migrate to the area. RUS, retaining the existing owners."

"- Что произойдет с теми доменами,
которые уже были зарегистрированы в зоне .РУ, с запуском .РУС?

- После прохождения процедуры принятия заявки и появления зоны .РУС на серверах ICANN, все домены второго уровня в зоне .РУ мигрируют в зону .РУС, сохранив существующих владельцев."

http://yandeg.ru/news/ru_rus.html

Last edited by 555; 22nd July 2011 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 22nd July 2011, 08:14 PM
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Re: .рус ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 555 View Post
You and this guy which used to or still works for ru center (nic.ru) think alike (From July 17,2008 ):

"- What happens to those domains that were registered in the zone. RU, with the launch. RUS?

- After completing the procedure of the application and the appearance of the zone. RUS servers ICANN, all second-level domains in the zone. RU migrate to the area. RUS, retaining the existing owners."

"- Что произойдет с теми доменами,
которые уже были зарегистрированы в зоне .РУ, с запуском .РУС?

- После прохождения процедуры принятия заявки и появления зоны .РУС на серверах ICANN, все домены второго уровня в зоне .РУ мигрируют в зону .РУС, сохранив существующих владельцев."

http://yandeg.ru/news/ru_rus.html


How can it be done? how can they alias Cirillyc to ascii? how do you know who the righfull owner is for машина.рус? car.ru or mashina.ru

Last edited by DktoInc; 22nd July 2011 at 08:15 PM..
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Old 22nd July 2011, 08:18 PM
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Re: .рус ???

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Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
How can it be done? how can they alias Cirillyc to ascii? how do you know who the righfull owner is for машина.рус? car.ru or mashina.ru
They can't and if i understand correctly it was before he publicly admitted or possibly realized that .ru will never be .ру so maybe he meant that for those who will get москва.ру they will also get москва.рус

This further shows that even people from 'the inside' can easily confuse others but bottom line is as you certainly already know: ICANN is born to keep the order, prevent confusion, and for that reason the deal is done, years ago.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 10:11 PM
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Re: .рус ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 555 View Post
So since there's ascii .ru, you say they have '.ру' (which will never exist) implemented in 'they're' memories and .рус is similar to .ру which you say will give it some instant recognition in addition to it being i would assume a fairly known and understandable abbreviation to the country name Russia - Россия yet i am not sure where is this conflicting or competing with .com - .ком?
It may become a new tld that will add choice to the existing many tld's currently in use but i am not sure how it will ever come close to acheiving .ком 'status'.
I don't think you can find many if any in Russia which heard of .ru but not of .com yet i am sure you will quickly find many that heard nothing of .рус , surely not as a tld which may also lead to many will try and go to e.g москва.ру when and if they ever see a live .рус just like many may visit Moscow.com when they may see Moscow.co

There's always also the possibility that ICANN won't approve a .рус and we won't ever know for sure, if Greece could not get .ελ since it resembles latin characters even that there is no Latin .ελ tld then i think .рус have much better chances to be declined with it's confusing similarity to Paraguay's .py even though there is a character difference however i truthfully wouldn't worry about it if it is approved.

Anyone can choose to be an experiment bunny in many fields of life and in some instances it can be a problem for a business but i think it's not at all a problem for the domain business. You can't sign 2 contracts with 2 insurance companies for a domain you have in Cyrillic, only with one company.
The 100's of other companies will also some how find an address at some point but neither of the addresses they can possibly get would enjoy the many benefits .com gets on first glance.

I can't wait to see what's around the corner for all of us because repeating the same things for so long is tiring and the fact so many see such a narrow picture doesn't help

Thanks, for the explanation 555,
One more question I have is and maybe you can explain this to me as well while we are at it: If all idn domains are really considered to be registered in the system in ascii (xn--), even .pф is realy ascii .xn--p1ai, and becomes Cyrillic only on browsers? and please correct me if i am missing info, how can ICANN even compare the similarity of acsii script domains to begin with and why is browser transformation of ascii to unicode and vise versa even considered a part of this visual similarity and what does ICANN have to do with anything outside of internet control?

Last edited by DktoInc; 22nd July 2011 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 22nd July 2011, 10:37 PM
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Re: .рус ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
Thanks, for the explanation 555,
One more question I have is and maybe you can explain this to me as well while we are at it: If all idn domains are really considered to be registered in the system in ascii (xn--), even .pф is realy ascii .xn--p1ai, and becomes Cyrillic only on browsers? and please correct me if i am missing info, how can ICANN even compare the similarity of acsii script domains to begin with and why is browser transformation of ascii to unicode and vise versa even considered a part of this visual similarity and what does ICANN have to do with anything outside of internet control?
Not sure i understand you on this Dkto but if i do you actually believe that it matters that technically an idn tld is punycode which resembles and sounds like nothing else...

I think it's as logical as if someone would demand ICANN to let google keep google.com but revoke the rights they get to e.g 219.38.493.39

The fact each string is 'understood' at the dns level as punycode is irrelevant, and i think that the more time goes by the less end users will ever know punycode exists. Non latin scripts in domains are only possible using that punycode 'method' or at least that's the 'method' chosen, i don't see how the technical way of achieving that desired result of local scripts in domains have anything to do with confusion prevention.

If you type in anything that looks/sounds or smells the same it needs to be controlled and possibly even resolve to the same place.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 11:04 PM
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Re: .рус ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 555 View Post
Not sure i understand you on this Dkto but if i do you actually believe that it matters that technically an idn tld is punycode which resembles and sounds like nothing else...
Technically yes.

Quote:
I think it's as logical as if someone would demand ICANN to let google keep google.com but revoke the rights they get to e.g 219.38.493.39
No no, at the registration level users are not registering IPs. I am staying at the domain name level.

Quote:
The fact each string is 'understood' at the dns level as punycode is irrelevant,
Can you expand on this a little bit more?

I really don't see how any tld can prevent an idn registration considering that domains are all registered in Ascii which is in every policy of every registrar. I also don't see based on this how icann can visually compare ascii scripts domains because technically it is all they are.

Last edited by DktoInc; 22nd July 2011 at 11:11 PM..
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Old 22nd July 2011, 11:43 PM
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Re: .рус ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
I am staying at the domain name level.
First or second level?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
Can you expand on this a little bit more?

I really don't see how any tld can prevent an idn registration considering that domains are all registered in Ascii which is in every policy of every registrar. I also don't see based on this how icann can visually compare ascii scripts domains because technically it is all they are.
Again if i understand you correctly when you say the above i assume you mean second level? If you do then now i am really confused as sure i guess (not at all sure though) that any registry will be able to allow xn--something which will mean the tld they offer will also include idn's but even if that's the case how is it related to the top level (e.g the .ком itself)
If you mean on the top level/first level/right of the dot (usually) then i am not sure why you wrote "I really don't see how any tld can prevent an idn registration considering that domains are all registered in Ascii"?

If you do talk about the top level, then please explain me how does the punycode which serves nothing but a 'tool' that makes these non latin domains 'work' effect the end result, the string itself, well the part that the punycode presents to be more accurate...

If you are looking for a specific discussion or 'rule' about it i don't think i ever saw anything discussing this maybe as because it is obvious there isn't much to discuss?

Last edited by 555; 22nd July 2011 at 11:53 PM..
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Old 22nd July 2011, 11:54 PM
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Re: .рус ???

Since we are discussing it, looks as if it's actually unicode that is then 'transformed' to punycode, not the other way around:

In computing, Punycode is an instance of a general encoding syntax (Bootstring) by which a string of Unicode characters is transformed uniquely and reversibly into a smaller, restricted character set.
Punycode is intended for the encoding of labels in the Internationalized Domain Names in Applications (IDNA) framework, such that these domain names may be represented in the ASCII character set allowed in the Domain Name System of the Internet. The encoding syntax is defined in IETF document RFC 3492.[1]
The IDNA methodology encodes only select label components of domain names with a procedure called ToASCII. The procedure ToUnicode decodes the DNS label into Unicode representation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punycode

__________________________________________

Punycode Step 1: Delegation
Just as with traditional ASCII-only domain names, an IDN must be properly
delegated to function correctly. A registrant must contact his or her registrar to specify
name servers that the IDN should be delegated to. The process of specifying name
servers for a domain varies by registrar (for example, filling out a Web form, sending
an electronic form via email, etc.), but it’s important to note that this process is no
different for an IDN than it is for a traditional ASCII-only domain name.
For example, consider the IDN, which has the Punycode representation
xn-fsqt3if6h.com. The registrant wants this IDN to be delegated to four name servers:
l4.nstld.com, a4.nstld.com, f4.nstld.com, and g4.nstld.com. The registrant communicates
this request to his or her registrar using the standard process set forth by that registrar
to specify name servers for a domain. When communicating with a registrar to
specify these name servers, the registrant may refer to the IDN in its unicode or some
other encoding. However, all communication between the registrar using Punycode
and VeriSign uses the Punycode representation of the IDN. In addition, queries to
both the registrar’s and the VeriSign WHOIS servers must use the Punycode
representation.
After the registrar has processed the registrant’s request to add the four
name servers, a query to the VeriSign WHOIS produces this output:

http://www.verisigninc.com/assets/na...tion-guide.pdf

__________________________________________

“In the past, panels have found IDNs and their Punycode translations to be equivalent. See Damien Persohn v. Lim, FA 874447 (Nat. Arb. Forum Feb. 19, 2007) (finding an internationalized domain name, <têtu.com>, and its Punycode translation, <xn--ttu-fma.com>, to be one and the same under the Policy); see also Württembergische Versicherung AG v. Emir Ulu, D2006-0278 (WIPO May 4, 2006) (finding that the <xn--wrttembergische-versicherung-16c.com> should be considered as equivalent to the <württembergische-versicherung.com> domain name, based on previous panel decisions recognizing the relevance of I-nav software for translating German letters such as “ä” or “ü” into codes such as <xn--[name]-16c> and similar); see also Fujitsu Ltd. v. tete and Lianqiu Li, D2006-0885 (WIPO October 12, 2006) (finding the <xn--zqsv0e014e.com> domain name to be an exact reproduction of Complainant’s Chinese trademark in a domain name).”

In that latter case, the panel found that the domain name then in dispute was one and the same with its punycode translation. The Complainant also refers to a series of cases where a non-ASCII trademark was found to be confusingly similar to an IDN domain name if the trademark is widely known and at least phonetically similar to the disputed domain name.

http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/s...ase=D2011-0100

__________________________________________

If the label is converted to Unicode
(i.e., to U-label form) using the Punycode decoding algorithm, then
the processing specified in those two sections MUST be performed, and
the label MUST be rejected if the resulting label is not identical to
the original.
See Section 8.1 of the Rationale document [RFC5894]
for additional discussion on this topic.

http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5891.txt

Last edited by 555; 23rd July 2011 at 12:05 AM..
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Old 7th August 2011, 12:07 PM
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