Word of Caution for IDN'ers

[freshfish]

Hey guys,
I was reviewing old posts and saw a post by someone asking about the correctness of a list of Arabic domains/keywords. Most were correct in syntax.

Here is the word of caution.

Just because the word is correct, it may have very little significance culturally. Semantically it may not make sense or may not be relevant to the native speakers.

Don't forget that the people searching in their local language are not comfortable with English and may not be into the same things that an English speaker is into.

Example in Arabic... Hockey, Beer
- Hockey: this is probably the smallest sport in the Arab world. Why? There are very few frozen lakes in the Arab world. Even in Lebanon where there is a ski season, ice skating is not popular. And although there are a spattering of rinks around the ME, people don't play the sport. The UAE has a few local teams and 2 leagues, but that is compromised of mostly Canadians and a few locals. No market for a domain there.

- Beer: Although there are some good beers in the ME (like Almaza in Lebanon), the majority of people in the ME are Muslim with a few countries that restrict drinking fully (Saudi, Kuwait) and partially like UAE. And oddly enough, despite beer having been invented in Egypt, beer is not as ingrained in the Arab culture as it is for say Germans or Americans. If there are local brews, there are at most one or two like in Egypt and in Lebanon. So, very little competition

Long story short (too late for that), do some contextual research for names. Look past the surface.

Hockey.com and Beer.com are seven figure domain names. Their counterparts in Arabic just don't make fiscal sense and may at their peak fetch mid to high 3 figures. Still a decent investment if purchased low and sold high but don't build castles in the sky until you have done your homework.

Hope that helps people make slightly more informed purchasing decisions in any language/culture they are not familiar with.

[Rubber Duck]

I think you could easily say that Beer has no cultural context in America.

[IdnHost]

Very good point. A little bit of common sense and research can go a long way

[Rockruler]

Some good info freshfish. The same can be applied to even ascii domains. So many people purchase garbage without thinking of a long term plan first.

[domainguru]

Originally Posted by Rockruler

Some good info freshfish. The same can be applied to even ascii domains. So many people purchase garbage without thinking of a long term plan first.

So true, but its kindergarten stuff really. Its like purchasing "christian" in thailand or "muslim" in the US.

Bit of research if the country you are buying in, its not much to ask

[freshfish]

Rubber Duck...beer and hot dogs at stadiums, microbreweries abound and a huge competitive beer market. Culturally its not as ingrained as in the UK or Germany but its a huge market.

Yeah, I just saw some lists of Arabic IDNs and as an Arab quickly pinpointed many that had no relevance although on the surface they seemed really good like [golf.com] and can see how people would get caught up in the fervor. I know I have and had to stop myself from bidding on IDNs in languages and markets I know very little about like Korean or Bulgarian...I still have a hard time when I see words I know are killer in English but may have no significance for the average Thai surfer

[freshfish]

domain guru, muslim.com would actually be a very good buy given the number of Muslims in the world. Just consider how many Muslims there are in the UK or the US many of whom are fluent in English. But actually Muslim in Thai would be interesting

lets crunch numbers for fun (very rough):
Population of Thailand 65 million
Internet usage at 25% = ~16 million, 4% of whom are Muslim = 640,000
That is a pretty small market for something less commercial than say "cars"

[domainguru]

Originally Posted by freshfish

domain guru, muslim.com would actually be a very good buy given the number of Muslims in the world. Just consider how many Muslims there are in the UK or the US many of whom are fluent in English. But actually Muslim in Thai would be interesting

lets crunch numbers for fun (very rough):
Population of Thailand 65 million
Internet usage at 25% = ~16 million, 4% of whom are Muslim = 640,000
That is a pretty small market for something less commercial than say "cars"

I didn't mention muslim in thai .... but if you ask, it would be a stupid buy. If you think it would be a good buy, please go buy it. Religious names, even popular ones are worth more in .org. In .com with virtually no searches, please carry on.

[freshfish]

wow, I didnt mean to offend you domainguru...I simply said interesting and if you'll notice I ended by saying that is a pretty small market for something less commercial

I wouldnt buy it and simply referred to the thai version to show how although it may seem good to someone, context is important (in this case internet usage and percentage of muslims in Thailand)

[domainguru]

Originally Posted by freshfish

wow, I didnt mean to offend you domainguru...I simply said interesting and if you'll notice I ended by saying that is a pretty small market for something less commercial

I wouldnt buy it and simply referred to the thai version to show how although it may seem good to someone, context is important (in this case internet usage and percentage of muslims in Thailand)

Who would it seem good to? On what basis?

You really think people don't know that you have to know something about the country / language / script you are investing in?

Earth to Freshfish ..... this is obvious stuff. Only the dumbest Americans don't know this kind of shit.

[AWS]

i totaly agree, but you dont always need a 100% cultural relevance.

a solid keyword is a solid keyword and if you can sell it after the idn.idn launch for 3 or 4 figures, then you have some nice litte extra money to pay and hold the good ones a little bit longer. not every domain is worth 5 or more figures. small money is also money.

sure, to set your focus to culturally relevant prime .coms is the best you can do, but the few really good domains are gone since years. and even there its pure speculation at the moment.

its like with ascii domains. all depends on your selling skills and i dont see a problem to have a few not so relevant domains in a wide-ranging portfolio. its also impossible to have only really good 5-figure domains.

i will always prefer a not so relevant single keyword before i buy that typical longtermdomainswithoutdashes.coms.

[freshfish]

dg, I don't know what I did to you but I was merely making a suggestion. I'm new to this and simply saw a few domain lists of Arabic IDNs that on the surface may have seemed good purchases but in context were not and I thought I would post a suggestion. And not everybody is a guru as my alias suggests

You really think people don't know that you have to know something about the country / language / script you are investing in?

Yes I do, because I have seen lists of domains people own and many are useless

Who would it seem good to? On what basis?

Not to beat a dead horse but let me clarify something since you

a) The Thai version of Muslim I said would be "interesting" and used it as an example to show the numbers and insinuated it would NOT be a good purchase
b) Muslim.com would be a GREAT domain to own as would Jewish.com Christian.com or the actual religions, Judaism, Christianity or Islam. Highly searched terms that people are highly passionate about and can be social networks, forums, etc

[freshfish]

AWS, good point, if you can eventually make a profit, even a small one then it obviously had some worth. I just found myself researching IDNs in languages and cultures I knew little about and had to take pause

But the example I gave of [hockey].com in Arabic has an exact search volume globally of 260...so the likelihood of that ever making a profit would be small to none given the context. [golf].com may fair better given the big money events a country like the UAE hosts but it has 140 exact search terms globally

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by freshfish

Rubber Duck...beer and hot dogs at stadiums, microbreweries abound and a huge competitive beer market. Culturally its not as ingrained as in the UK or Germany but its a huge market.

Yeah, I just saw some lists of Arabic IDNs and as an Arab quickly pinpointed many that had no relevance although on the surface they seemed really good like [golf.com] and can see how people would get caught up in the fervor. I know I have and had to stop myself from bidding on IDNs in languages and markets I know very little about like Korean or Bulgarian...I still have a hard time when I see words I know are killer in English but may have no significance for the average Thai surfer

Yeah, they sell the stuff over here. Manage to get around the Trade Descriptions Act, but God only knows how.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by domainguru

Earth to Freshfish ..... this is obvious stuff. Only the dumbest Americans don't know this kind of shit.

Wrong! The vast majority of Americans don't know this kind of shit.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by freshfish

AWS, good point, if you can eventually make a profit, even a small one then it obviously had some worth. I just found myself researching IDNs in languages and cultures I knew little about and had to take pause

But the example I gave of [hockey].com in Arabic has an exact search volume globally of 260...so the likelihood of that ever making a profit would be small to none given the context. [golf].com may fair better given the big money events a country like the UAE hosts but it has 140 exact search terms globally

Look, when we got in, it was bloody difficult to find an online dictionary or a way of generating most of the scripts.

Few registries accepted Punycode and none accepted Unicode.

Exact searches?

Google hadn't even indexed a lot of the languages.

Did we make make mistakes?

Of course we bloody did.

Would you have regretted, making the mistakes we made?

I rather think not.

Are you even likely to get to see our listings?

No, not unless you're the bloody Aga Khan.

[AWS]

@fresh: thanks.

im not an idiot. i know that the arabic countrys dont have that much ice, snow or wintersports i also know, that moslems typically dont drink alcohol.

i am not sad about the buys. as i said before... some solid keywords for fast/small flips, the good ones for long term speculation. and if no one will be interessted... who cares. not every domain can be sold.

by the way. just because the dont drink it, that does not mean they also dont know it. i think you can also buy it in these countrys. for tourists, christians and all other guys who life or visit these countrys.

why is ascii vodka.com that much expensive? MARKETING - nothing more!
if never heard from a vodka delivery service or knew anybody who has ordered his bottle online. they all buy it on the store next to them or drink it at discos.

well, we will see. even the best names are pure speculation at the moment and its nothing more then a expensive hobby or game

[freshfish]

guys...I was simply trying to help out someone who may not be a seasoned veteran.
I'm not claiming to be a guru, nor am I claiming to be an expert researcher. You guys have been doing this much longer and am learning from everyone on this board - take it easy guys

[alpha]

Originally Posted by freshfish

Hey guys,
I was reviewing old posts and saw a post by someone asking about the correctness of a list of Arabic domains/keywords. Most were correct in syntax.

Here is the word of caution.

Just because the word is correct, it may have very little significance culturally. Semantically it may not make sense or may not be relevant to the native speakers.

it's an obvious point, but worth mentioning none the less. The problem is not just an IDN problem, I've seen American English words registered in ascii in .co.uk that as a Brit makes me chuckle.

I'm relocating this thread to the IDN Newbies section. thanks Freshfish for calling it out.

[bwhhisc]

This is a good post for many of the newer members.....as you can see the "old timers" learned this the hard way.

Thanks for posting up Fresh Fish, would it be fair to say there is still a decent amount of "good" words for native speakers to find in Arabic?