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Old 7th February 2012, 01:48 AM
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Sharp elbows

Why so many sharp elbows around these parts now-a-days?

Are we trying to attract or drive away folks?
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Old 7th February 2012, 06:40 AM
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Re: Sharp elbows

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Originally Posted by Vlaen View Post
Why so many sharp elbows around these parts now-a-days?

Are we trying to attract or drive away folks?
His personality is so magnetic, he is unable to carry credit cards.
Even his enemies list him as their emergency contact number.
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Old 7th February 2012, 01:44 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Subtle and amusing if I was running in a popularity contest.

Just noticing a trend on this board. It's become a bit harder around the edges and I'm trying to think what has changed since I joined.

Maybe it's frustration.
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Old 7th February 2012, 02:01 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Ok I'll bite.

I'm not condoning, just explaining my take on it.

The pointy elbow thing you are seeing is largely coming from the longterm members.

Yes these members are frustrated, they've been on this forum 6 years, and some have owned IDNs for a further 6 years.

They know their target market are not U.S people, so have zero risk of upsetting a new member here masquerading as a native end user buyer.

The majority of new members here turn up to sell crap phishing domains, or turn up having followed an indexed link discussing their crap phishing domain (usually on sedo)

Occasionally a new member joins who does not fall in to the above category, and they often come asking the same old questions that have been asked a hundred times before.

... and there's more too I'm sure, but you get the general idea. Veteran members are happy being grouchy; being grouchy passes the time waiting for idn.idn, and at the end of the day they have nothing to lose but new friends.
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Old 7th February 2012, 03:02 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlaen View Post
Are we trying to attract or drive away folks?
I've been thinking about this recently. I think keeping the competition low and the aftermarket small benefits us all in the long run. If we all moved our IDN discussion and sales over to one of the big domain forums, say DNF or NP, the aftermarket between resellers would quickly grow as people would see IDNs selling, it would be easier for us to sell off our non-premium names, but the cost to acquire good names would go up by a lot due to the extra competition. As is both big forums have sections for IDNs which are essentially dead, and the majority of the people there probably assume IDNs are too, we have all the information hidden away on forums like IDNF.

When new users do come here they often don't have any idea what they are doing, and the forums aren't the most newbie-friendly, so they can quickly get overwhelmed and driven away. Most active posters here seem to have been registered for at least 5 years.

I don't suppose any of this is done on purpose, just some observations.
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Old 7th February 2012, 03:25 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I've been thinking about this recently. I think keeping the competition low and the aftermarket small benefits us all in the long run. If we all moved our IDN discussion and sales over to one of the big domain forums, say DNF or NP, the aftermarket between resellers would quickly grow as people would see IDNs selling, it would be easier for us to sell off our non-premium names, but the cost to acquire good names would go up by a lot due to the extra competition. As is both big forums have sections for IDNs which are essentially dead, and the majority of the people there probably assume IDNs are too, we have all the information hidden away on forums like IDNF.

When new users do come here they often don't have any idea what they are doing, and the forums aren't the most newbie-friendly, so they can quickly get overwhelmed and driven away. Most active posters here seem to have been registered for at least 5 years.

I don't suppose any of this is done on purpose, just some observations.
The idn "community" started life on the other forums, DNF I think, but had to be moved due to anyone who talked idn was branded a "moonie".

The great Rick ejected en masse all idners from his private forum.

There is a lot of history here, but bottom line, those morons didn't get it, and still don't get it.
Idn isn't, and will never be for them.

So you can kind of understand why people who were around back then, who were subjected to all that - are kind of reluctant these days to educate these guys about the biggest change the internet has ever seen.

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Last edited by alpha; 7th February 2012 at 03:34 PM..
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Old 7th February 2012, 03:42 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha View Post
The idn "community" started life on the other forums, DNF I think, but had to be moved due to anyone who talked idn was branded a "moonie".

The great Rick ejected en masse all idners from his private forum.

There is a lot of history here, but bottom line, those morons didn't get it, and still don't get it.
Idn isn't, and will never be for them.

So you can kind of understand why people who were around back then, who were subjected to all that - are kind of reluctant these days to educate these guys about the biggest change the internet has ever seen.

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makes perfect sense actually. well said
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Old 7th February 2012, 03:57 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

How did he bounce them? Was there a flame war that led up to it or did he just decide to delete their user accounts one day?
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:36 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

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Originally Posted by Kent99 View Post
How did he bounce them? Was there a flame war that led up to it or did he just decide to delete their user accounts one day?
Back then icann hadn't mentioned idn for years, unlike today there was no talk of new gtlds, idn cctlds etc.
All there was, was a trail of breadcrumbs leading to a powerpoint slide show dated 2005 from verisign showing their intention to create .com transliterations in many languages.

The old overture tool clearly showed that these transliterations of com were already being typed/searched, so by joining up the dots, you could see where this was going.

The thing is, its just that, to appreciate the idn business case, you needed to join the dots up and do the research. To the uneducated person, they're just a bunch of funny squiggles.

Members of those forums were hungry for new investment options, and with .mobi just launched, it quickly turned into a .mobi vs idn

Of course anyone with half a brain could see .mobi was DOA.

So in answer to your question, it escalated over time, and culminated in a mass culling one afternoon for anyone who had ever posted the initials I D N.
It no doubt didn't help that Ricks flowers.mobi purchase was called out by idn believers as dumb, and coupled with the frustrations of posters trying to explain the idn case, and constant jeers from the uneducated.

Of course history has since been written, .mobi was a bust, the 300k flowers.mobi was a dumb purchase, (resold later for 16k), and idn is top of everything icann is doing + the idn traffic keeps climbing...

Last edited by alpha; 7th February 2012 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:50 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

I think it was $6500 for Flowers.mobi. At the same auction Cellphones.mobi failed to sell at $500.
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:53 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

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Originally Posted by Kent99 View Post
I think it was $6500 for Flowers.mobi. At the same auction Cellphones.mobi failed to sell at $500.
Even funnier
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Old 7th February 2012, 05:12 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I've been thinking about this recently. I think keeping the competition low and the aftermarket small benefits us all in the long run. If we all moved our IDN discussion and sales over to one of the big domain forums, say DNF or NP, the aftermarket between resellers would quickly grow as people would see IDNs selling, it would be easier for us to sell off our non-premium names, but the cost to acquire good names would go up by a lot due to the extra competition. As is both big forums have sections for IDNs which are essentially dead, and the majority of the people there probably assume IDNs are too, we have all the information hidden away on forums like IDNF.

When new users do come here they often don't have any idea what they are doing, and the forums aren't the most newbie-friendly, so they can quickly get overwhelmed and driven away. Most active posters here seem to have been registered for at least 5 years.

I don't suppose any of this is done on purpose, just some observations.
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Last edited by sarcle; 7th February 2012 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 7th February 2012, 05:15 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Unfortunately Ben, the people on the main domain forums still think we're selling air... They think that foreign traffic is worthless and that nobody is interested in squiggly characters.. When we do try to post there we are chased away by people commenting that IDNs are dead even tho they have probably never touched an IDN themselves. They would rather invest in .co... Just look at .xxx.. There is a thread on DNF asking where the TYPE IN is.... Who would be typing in ______ .xxx . The thread starter is well known in the domain community. Some replies are also questioning where the type in is.
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Old 7th February 2012, 05:21 PM
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Re: Sharp elbows

So hopefully that little trip down memory lane has answered the OPs original question.

One final comment from me, everyone here is equal.. almost. As am admin I do afford the old time members a lot of slack in their posting styles and comments.. personally, I think they've earnt the right to be an asshole occasionally.

And a message to all the noob members and members to be.. this can still be a forum for you, you just need thick skin and a sense of humor.
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Old 8th February 2012, 12:06 AM
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Re: Sharp elbows

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When we do try to post there we are chased away by people commenting that IDNs are dead even tho they have probably never touched an IDN themselves.
Funny thing is they probably don't get the type-ins we do with their own domains. For most of the names you see selling on ascii forums we know they don't. Sure apple to apples a good generic isn't the same ppc/traffic wise, yet. (say for example dog.com vs. dog.com in Japanese.) Although they are definitely on the incline. Thing is, the majority of ascii domainers probably wouldn't look twice at the domain even if you showed them revenue and stats. And that's what I don't get. "It's not my market. I don't even speak Japanese." Money's money people. An ROI is an ROI.

IDN do make money, so I don't care if IDN explode yet or not at the moment. Frustrated? Sure. Tired/beaten/worn. Sure.

Obviously most domainers use a, "I want to make millions from my creative thinking cap." Domainers for the most part seem, "I'll think of some clever domains and someone will pay me MILLONS." That's how all these new TLDs make money on their launches.

Quote:
Just look at .xxx.. There is a thread on DNF asking where the TYPE IN is.... Who would be typing in ______ .xxx . The thread starter is well known in the domain community. Some replies are also questioning where the type in is.
And who was it again that told domainers people had already been typing them in browsers, pre-launch?

Quote:
Frank Schilling’s logic behind this investment is primarily based on his analysis that a lot of people believed for years that an .xxx TLD actually existed!
http://domaingang.com/domain-news/fr...lan-in-danger/

He can afford that investment. A noob or average domainer will look deeper into those words and invest. And they are finding out that isn't the case. At all. What these "old-timers" don't get is that they do influence domain investing. And sometimes in a bad way. .mobi is another example.

Quote:
And a message to all the noob members and members to be.. this can still be a forum for you, you just need thick skin and a sense of humor.
I like noobs and new personalities. But yes, being a little girl and crying because someone is short with you, or snaps at you, isn't going to get you far here. We've been living here for 7 years. Chalk it up to cabin fever or an off week and move on.

Though it's been kind of boring. We almost need another troll.
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Last edited by sarcle; 8th February 2012 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 8th February 2012, 12:07 AM
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Re: Sharp elbows

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Originally Posted by alpha View Post
And a message to all the noob members and members to be.. this can still be a forum for you, you just need thick skin and a sense of humor.
Just a mention.... there is an immense amount of information and cronological data on the forum for those intererested in going back and reading.

There are some extreme parallels to ascii.com domains in the mid 1990's to what is now happening with idns in the 2012's and beyond. For those that have taken the time to do the research and "connect the dots" as Gary said, the conclusion that most have unanimously come to is that history is about to repeat itself over the next 5 years, only this time with local language IDN.com and cctld domains but in a parallel fashion to the quick rise of ascii.com and cctld domains.

There are quite a few investors in IDNs that may surprise some, one being Adam Dicker owner of DNForum.com and a member here but only pops in on occasion. Although Adam has spoken on IDNs at major domain conferences and even sent an email blast to DNForum members circa 2007 that he thought IDNs were a good long term investment, seems that his message fell on deaf ears and few took even a passing look at the idn investment opportunity. My guess is most were too lazy to deal with the difference in languages, and not willing to take the time to read and think through the logic and frankly low risk per domain name for the investment.

If I had not lived overseas and experienced first hand not being able to read the local street signs, newpapers, and billboard advertisements, I would not have been nearly as keen on the opportunity for local language urls. For advertising and branding of local websites and products in local language with memoarble and easy to remember urls it would seem this is quite simply a no brainer. For those that have done their research, this is all quite simply the continuation of the long term plan (begun in the mid-late 1990's) to integrate local language domains into the mainstream internet.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 8th February 2012 at 07:35 AM..
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Old 8th February 2012, 12:41 AM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcle View Post
Funny thing is they probably don't get the type-ins we do with their own domains. For most of the names you see selling on ascii forums we know they don't. Sure apple to apples a good generic isn't the same ppc/traffic wise, yet. (say for example dog.com vs. dog.com in Japanese.) Although they are definitely on the incline. Thing is, the majority of ascii domainers probably wouldn't look twice at the domain even if you showed them revenue and stats. And that's what I don't get. "It's not my market. I don't even speak Japanese." Money's money people. An ROI is an ROI.

IDN do make money, so I don't care if IDN explode yet or not at the moment. Frustrated? Sure. Tired/beaten/worn. Sure.

Obviously most domainers use a, "I want to make millions from my creative thinking cap." Domainers for the most part seem, "I'll think of some clever domains and someone will pay me MILLONS." That's how all these new TLDs make money on their launches.



And who was it again that told domainers people had already been typing them in browsers, pre-launch?



http://domaingang.com/domain-news/fr...lan-in-danger/

He can afford that investment. A noob or average domainer will look deeper into those words and invest. And they are finding out that isn't the case. At all. What these "old-timers" don't get is that they do influence domain investing. And sometimes in a bad way. .mobi is another example.



I like noobs and new personalities. But yes, being a little girl and crying because someone is short with you, or snaps at you, isn't going to get you far here. We've been living here for 7 years. Chalk it up to cabin fever or an off week and move on.

Though it's been kind of boring. We almost need another troll.
FS and RS can try to "create" a market for their own good. They have money to burn and can pump up extensions.

RS -------> .mobi ----> FAIL
FS / AD -----> .xxx ---> FS can quickly sell his names for $$$ before it tanks.
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Last edited by IDNCowboy; 8th February 2012 at 12:41 AM..
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Old 8th February 2012, 12:43 AM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc View Post
There are quite a few investors in IDNs that may surprise some, one being Adam Dicker owner of DNForum.com and a member here but only pops in on occasion. Although Adam has spoken on IDNs at major domain conferences and even sent an email blast to DNForum members circa 2007 that he thought IDNs were a good long term investment, seems that his message fell on deaf ears and few took even a passing look at the idn investment opportunity. My guess is most were too lazy to deal with the difference in languages, and not willing to take the time and think through the possible opportunity.
All of AD's IDN names are on his showcase site.. He pretty much ran a dictionary thru auto translation tools... Some members and I agreed that his names are mostly worthless unfortunately
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Old 8th February 2012, 01:28 AM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlaen View Post
Why so many sharp elbows around these parts now-a-days?
Too many years of waiting for IDN.IDN got the old-timers grouchy.

But happy times are cummin and they will be all smiles I'm guessin.
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Old 8th February 2012, 01:43 AM
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Re: Sharp elbows

Put some cats inside a box.
Don't give them any food.
Wait.
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